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Do you charge per source or per target word?
Thread poster: Thomas Rebotier
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 01:30
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Per source word May 26, 2010

I always quote per source word and invoice accordingly.

 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:30
French to German
+ ...
Ahem... May 26, 2010

Emma Goldsmith wrote:

I understand that in order for an agency to be certified under EN-15038:2006
http://qualitystandard.bs.en-15038.com/
they have to charge per source word.


I do not know the certification body in question, but would like to see the exact quote of EN 15038 stating that the volume to be translated must be charged according to the ST word-count.

From my point of view, and things being what they are, word-count is linked to commercial practices and not directly to quality requirements.

As an example of the absurd excesses generated by the (rather uncontrolled) implementation of EN 15038, one agency said that a translator had to live in the country in which the TL was officially used to translate properly in said language.

So you would have to live in the U.K. to be "authorised" by EN 15038 to translate into BE.

How about that?

[Edited at 2010-05-26 08:45 GMT]


 
Emma Goldsmith
Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:30
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
EN 15038 May 26, 2010

I am no expert on this standard, which is why I wrote "Please correct me anyone if this isn't the case".
I stand corrected


 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:30
French to German
+ ...
Sure... May 26, 2010

Emma Goldsmith wrote:

I am no expert on this standard, which is why I wrote "Please correct me anyone if this isn't the case".
I stand corrected


No problem here - as a matter of fact, I have read through EN 15038 some times but may have missed this point, hence my doubts


 
megane_wang
megane_wang  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:30
Member (2007)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Source word but... so what? May 26, 2010

All my customers work by source word.

I think that this just makes them easier to control everything, since they know how many words the source text and can know exactly how much the translation will cost.

In a couple of cases I worked on a printed source and we just made an estimate of the ratio target language words / source language words to agree on a convenient rate based on target words.

Counting by source words is an obvious advantage for an agency t
... See more
All my customers work by source word.

I think that this just makes them easier to control everything, since they know how many words the source text and can know exactly how much the translation will cost.

In a couple of cases I worked on a printed source and we just made an estimate of the ratio target language words / source language words to agree on a convenient rate based on target words.

Counting by source words is an obvious advantage for an agency that has to deal with a translation to 12, 20, 25... N languages. You know the exact price in advance and receive invoices and make payments for the same word counts...

After all, though, I am sure that all this should not make a noticeable difference for professional translators who know how to make an exact quote for a customer and how to defend their rates.


Ruth @ MW
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Louisa Berry
Louisa Berry
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:30
Member (2009)
German to English
Source word except in some cases May 26, 2010

Normally charge per source word, because thats how it seems to be 'done' and how most of my customers (agencies) tell me this is how they pay. Which I am perfectly happy with.

Sometimes if I am asked to translate a document from a pdf which is difficult to convert, the agency will normally agree to pay per target word.


Louisa


 
Attila Piróth
Attila Piróth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:30
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
EN15038 May 26, 2010

The EN15038 standard (Translation services – Service requirements) just mentions that the quote submitted by the translation service provider to the client should contain at least the price and the delivery details (unless agreed otherwise). No further details or recommendations on how the price should be calculated.

The US standard F2575-06 (Standard Guide for Quality Assurance in Translation) does not even contain the words "price", "rate", "quote", "quotation", or "fee".
... See more
The EN15038 standard (Translation services – Service requirements) just mentions that the quote submitted by the translation service provider to the client should contain at least the price and the delivery details (unless agreed otherwise). No further details or recommendations on how the price should be calculated.

The US standard F2575-06 (Standard Guide for Quality Assurance in Translation) does not even contain the words "price", "rate", "quote", "quotation", or "fee".

Best regards,
Attila
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Suzan Hamer
Suzan Hamer  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 02:30
English
+ ...
Ditto. May 26, 2010

inkweaver wrote:

IMHO this is the best way to provide transparency. I always quote per source word, so clients know what they will pay in the end. As far as I am concerned, I would not buy a pig in the poke and charging per source word simply provides more transparency.



 
Williamson
Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:30
Flemish to English
+ ...
Whatever pays most. May 26, 2010

Tim Drayton wrote:
Word count expansion in the order of 55% is normal in the Turkish to English pair, for example, so it is vital that both parties are clear from the outset as to which of these payment is based on.


Hence, vice-versa, you earn 55% less.

Whatever norm, I count what pays most.
Why take source if you translate from say English into French, your target-language, French will be more descriptive and your translation will contain more words.
From French into German will reduce your word count and your income.

[Edited at 2010-05-26 12:43 GMT]


 
Jeff Whittaker
Jeff Whittaker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:30
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Target word May 26, 2010

All my customers and clients for the past 18 years have charged by the target word. I have no problem charging by the source word, but in some cases (especially German > English), my per-word rate would be at least 20% higher.

 
Tim Drayton
Tim Drayton  Identity Verified
Cyprus
Local time: 03:30
Turkish to English
+ ...
The payment should be the same May 26, 2010

Williamson wrote:

Tim Drayton wrote:
Word count expansion in the order of 55% is normal in the Turkish to English pair, for example, so it is vital that both parties are clear from the outset as to which of these payment is based on.


Hence, vice-versa, you earn 55% less.

Whatever norm, I count what pays most.
Why take source if you translate from say English into French, your target-language, French will be more descriptive and your translation will contain more words.
From French into German will reduce your word count and your income.

[Edited at 2010-05-26 12:43 GMT]


No, you should essentially be paid the same in both cases. Equity demands that the rate per source word in this pair be 55% higher than the rate per target word, a concept that is not always easy to get across.


 
Marie-Céline GEORG
Marie-Céline GEORG  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:30
German to French
+ ...
Source / Target / Word / Line... May 26, 2010

Some of my customers ask for a source word price, others for a target word price, with others I charge a price per source or target line (either 50, 55 or 60 strokes)... whatever the unit, I make sure that I get the same final price for a given text.
As for end clients, they don't care about the unit, only the total price of the translation job.
Anyway, as translators, we don't sell pounds of potatoes or tomatoes, we are service providers. A word price is just a practical method of
... See more
Some of my customers ask for a source word price, others for a target word price, with others I charge a price per source or target line (either 50, 55 or 60 strokes)... whatever the unit, I make sure that I get the same final price for a given text.
As for end clients, they don't care about the unit, only the total price of the translation job.
Anyway, as translators, we don't sell pounds of potatoes or tomatoes, we are service providers. A word price is just a practical method of determinining the overall price of a job.
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Kaiya J. Diannen
Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
German to English
DE>EN started out with lines... May 26, 2010

When I first started translating, it seemed that all my clients (agencies) paid by target line (50 or 55 characters including spaces).

As my client base expanded both in numbers and regionally, inquiries (and payments) started to take a different form. I find that agencies that don't have a special affinity for DE>EN translations tend to think by the word - they can see a document, they can count how many words it has, therefore to them that's the easiest way to assign a price.
... See more
When I first started translating, it seemed that all my clients (agencies) paid by target line (50 or 55 characters including spaces).

As my client base expanded both in numbers and regionally, inquiries (and payments) started to take a different form. I find that agencies that don't have a special affinity for DE>EN translations tend to think by the word - they can see a document, they can count how many words it has, therefore to them that's the easiest way to assign a price.

But as Marie-Céline basically implied, our goal is to earn appropriate money for the time spent on our work. So regardless of whether we are charging "per source" or "per target", that's what we should have in mind.

As Jeff stated, the expansion rate from source word to target word in the pair DE>EN is usually at least 20%; I find when working on legal documents and litigation in particular, that rate can be over 30%.

I still prefer charging by the line, but generally speaking my "per word rate" means "per target word", unless I'm asked specifically for a source word rate. Of course I will provide a source word rate on request - but personally I don't think that's as fair to the client, because I'm definitely going to "assume the worst" and mark up my price accordingly.
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Neil Coffey
Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:30
French to English
+ ...
@Laurent May 27, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:

Neil Coffey wrote:

For end clients, I think charging by source word makes sense because you can then give them a concrete price based on text that they have control of. Otherwise, charging by target word, you're effectively saying: "I'm going to charge you X per word, but I don't know how many words there'll be yet so I can't give you the final price, and what's more I have control over how many words there will be, not you".


It does not have to be that way. If you tell your client that the target will be about X% more than the source and that you will charge them according to the actual word-count, limited to (source + X%), your control over how many words will be charged is limited.


You could, and indeed in cases of e.g. a scanned document where you have no word count, you may well have to.

But... why bother? What's the advantage of saying "it'll cost you somewhere between X and Y" rather than just "it'll cost you X"?


 
Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:30
French to German
+ ...
Why bother? May 27, 2010

Neil Coffey wrote:

But... why bother? What's the advantage of saying "it'll cost you somewhere between X and Y" rather than just "it'll cost you X"?


Neil: in principle, I do agree with you. What it means, though, is that I should compensate the difference between ST and TT (+ 30% in DE>FR, for example) through higher per word rates.

This is why some agencies are no longer my clients (they refused to be charged a higher ST rate as well as being charged with the word-count of the TT).

[Edited at 2010-05-27 05:15 GMT]


 
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Do you charge per source or per target word?







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