| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Do you charge per source or per target word? Thread poster: Thomas Rebotier
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Harry Zhang (X)
United States
Local time: 09:21
English to Chinese
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| Per Source Word | May 27, 2010 |
I do translations between English, Chinese and Japanese.
| | | | Ildiko Santana 
United States
Local time: 06:21
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
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MODERATOR
Unless it is not possible to have a source word count, I charge per source word and all of my clients prefer to do so. Not only it's a clean, unambiguous procedure but also a lot more efficient. Imagine the tremendous amount of time we (providers & clients alike) would have to waste on revisiting each and every purchase order if we based our pricing on target word count estimates. To come up with an estimate is time-consuming in itself, and then to type up the PO, send and file it, then upon del... See more Unless it is not possible to have a source word count, I charge per source word and all of my clients prefer to do so. Not only it's a clean, unambiguous procedure but also a lot more efficient. Imagine the tremendous amount of time we (providers & clients alike) would have to waste on revisiting each and every purchase order if we based our pricing on target word count estimates. To come up with an estimate is time-consuming in itself, and then to type up the PO, send and file it, then upon delivery go back, adjust the amounts, send, file, etc... I'm glad this is a rare necessity. I frequently translate certificates and diplomas that are typically scanned and come in PDF format or as a JPEG image, but these are nearly always one-page files with less than 400 words, so I charge a minimum fee per document, in which case there is no need to estimate or count words. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Radu Nicolaescu
Romania
Local time: 16:21
Member (2006)
German to Romanian
+ ...
1. You always negotiate price before the translation, i.e. you have to do per source word
2. The client can compare different offers only per source not per done translation
3. For language combinations that increase the wordcount (DE -> latin languages e.g.) you may apply distinct rates based on the complexity and the market offer for this combination; so the structure of language is comprised in the specific rates for the combination
[Bearbeitet am 2010-05-27 1... See more 1. You always negotiate price before the translation, i.e. you have to do per source word
2. The client can compare different offers only per source not per done translation
3. For language combinations that increase the wordcount (DE -> latin languages e.g.) you may apply distinct rates based on the complexity and the market offer for this combination; so the structure of language is comprised in the specific rates for the combination
[Bearbeitet am 2010-05-27 17:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Assumptions vs. practice | May 28, 2010 |
ildiko wrote:
Imagine the tremendous amount of time we (providers & clients alike) would have to waste on revisiting each and every purchase order if we based our pricing on target word count estimates. ...
Radu Nicolaescu wrote:
For language combinations that increase the wordcount (DE -> latin languages e.g.) you may apply distinct rates based on the complexity and the market offer for this combination; so the structure of language is comprised in the specific rates for the combination
1) I "quote" (offer to do) translations all the time based on target counts, both target word and target line. As long as both parties understand what's involved it does not waste any time whatsoever. You tell the client "I will translate this at XX euros per target word", and they say "OK".
In some cases when a client asks for an estimate of what the total will be, I then multiply the source count x 1.3 and tell them the result, explaining that this is a rough figure. If they accept this as an estimate, then they will pay less if the actual count is more like 1.25 x the source, etc.
One agency I deal with in the US issues POs with "target word" specified as the unit of measurement, the price per word, and blank totals. All they have to do when the job is finished is fill in the total. With all the other steps in the process (admin, proofreading, quality assurance, accounting, etc. etc.), you can't tell me that filling in one number is a lot of work!
2) Yes, you can take expansion into consideration in the source word count, but it is not an accurate science. In this case, the translator is more likely to estimate/quote in their own favor (I know I would).
Plus, as Laurent mentioned, some clients only see a number that is suddenly 20-40% higher and refuse to accept this, failing to understand why.
If I have to take the time to explain this to them (which I am certainly willing to do and have done on several occasions), I might as well just offer them the option of billing per target word, which also might save them money in the end if the target word count does not expand at the (higher) rate estimated.
[Edited at 2010-05-28 05:23 GMT]
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 15:21
French to German
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| Common sense | May 28, 2010 |
Janet Rubin wrote:
If I have to take the time to explain this to them (which I am certainly willing to do and have done on several occasions), I might as well just offer them the option of billing per target word, which also might save them money in the end if the target word count does not expand at the (higher) rate estimated.
That is exactly the point of my first post in this thread and, when posting it, I assumed it reflected common sense. It does not take more time to make an offer for the ST than an offer for the TT. And as I said, an estimate for the TT (DE>FR = DE text x 1.33) is to be seen as a maximum.
[Edited at 2010-05-28 05:35 GMT]
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:21
Flemish to English
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Save money - have to. Are you in the charity business?
It is a freelance translation world, where what is determined is the result of bargaining.
The only have to a translator has to is to deliver a perfect transcription of the original in the target language on time. All the rest is negotiable.
Before the advent of the portals and hence the Anglo-Saxon influence, I never heard of payment per word, but per sentence of 55 or 60 characters, be it source or target as convened betw... See more Save money - have to. Are you in the charity business?
It is a freelance translation world, where what is determined is the result of bargaining.
The only have to a translator has to is to deliver a perfect transcription of the original in the target language on time. All the rest is negotiable.
Before the advent of the portals and hence the Anglo-Saxon influence, I never heard of payment per word, but per sentence of 55 or 60 characters, be it source or target as convened between both parties to a contract. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 15:21
French to German
+ ...
| Straight in the bull's eye! | May 28, 2010 |
Williamson wrote:
Before the advent of the portals and hence the Anglo-Saxon influence, I never heard of payment per word, but per sentence of 55 or 60 characters, be it source or target as convened between both parties to a contract.
Thanks for the confirmation, Williamson. I may not be a Neptunian from Outer Space after all . And to insist one more time on my previous point: some agencies do pay according to the TT word-count... and invoice their clients accordingly.
[Edited at 2010-05-28 15:16 GMT]
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:21
Flemish to English
+ ...
| Anglo-Saxon influence. | May 28, 2010 |
Between [ ] : Before the advent of the portals and hence the Anglo-Saxon influence, I had never heard of translation into one's native language only either.
Anyway, I try to negotiate along the scheme:
Germanic>Germanic,
Romance>Romance,
Romance>Germanic (concatination), etc...
or a price for the entire project, based upon the number of estimated hours.
It all depends. Word count is not written in stone.
Don't know about ideogram... See more Between [ ] : Before the advent of the portals and hence the Anglo-Saxon influence, I had never heard of translation into one's native language only either.
Anyway, I try to negotiate along the scheme:
Germanic>Germanic,
Romance>Romance,
Romance>Germanic (concatination), etc...
or a price for the entire project, based upon the number of estimated hours.
It all depends. Word count is not written in stone.
Don't know about ideograms and kanji's, but I can imagine that one ideogram/kanji can express half or an entire sentence in a Western target language.
As an outsourcer, I would "love" to base my quote on source, but I guess that as a translator,
I would not feel too happy about that.
[Edited at 2010-05-28 19:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:21
French to English
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| Rates dependent on direction anyway | May 28, 2010 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Neil: in principle, I do agree with you. What it means, though, is that I should compensate the difference between ST and TT (+ 30% in DE>FR, for example) through higher per word rates.
Laurent, I see where you're coming from, but independent of average word count differences, the rate between two languages is surely dpendent on direction anyway, isn't it?
For example, if there are more native speakers of Russian that understand English fluently than there are native English speakers that understand Russian fluently, then even discounting average word count differences, I'd expect that this situation would tend to make translations from Russian more expensive on average than translations into Russian.
The economies of countries in which native speakers tend to reside also potentially makes a difference, of course.
So I think that rates just need to be assessed on the basis of languages and direction right from the start, and so whatever the direction you can come up with a rate that allows you to calculate in the source language.
| | | | Ronald van der Linden (X)
Mexico
Local time: 07:21
German to Dutch
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| just some ideas | May 31, 2010 |
edited: other have already expressed
I for one have never really paid any attention to this topic. But as with translation software, the aim is to lower costs of translations. And the solution is to add % to your fee if you are used to charge per target word/sentence/character/page for clients paying you per source word...
The problem with source word is that one could say that a translator is actually no... See more edited: other have already expressed
I for one have never really paid any attention to this topic. But as with translation software, the aim is to lower costs of translations. And the solution is to add % to your fee if you are used to charge per target word/sentence/character/page for clients paying you per source word...
The problem with source word is that one could say that a translator is actually not being fully paid for its production. The advantage is clear. Upfront everybody knows the total price. But, again, the translator is not being paid for its output, which is target word.
The excuse of the industry that target word pricing is inefficient, can easily be countered with the experiences of the translator. I.e. English to Spanish means the end product would contain about 30% more word count. In this language combination a translator would lose 30% income if fees are calculated based on source word.
We could discuss what really is the production of a translator. The source or the target/result? But it doesn't really matter, as long as you correct your prices. If your client asks for a price per source word, in English->Spanish translations one could add 30% on top of the standard fee in order to be paid target text. Spanish->English would leave 30% bargain space
[Edited at 2010-05-31 01:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Just to chime in... | Apr 26, 2013 |
It really depends.
For languages that use very long compound words - like German/Dutch - you should probably charge a higher source word rate than, say, English where words are comparatively shorter and written separately.
In some cases, you need to mix and match and charge per word + per character, like on tax/financial documents where there are many abbreviated terms or acronyms that combine upwards of 7 or 8 words or more and require end notes or footnotes as explana... See more It really depends.
For languages that use very long compound words - like German/Dutch - you should probably charge a higher source word rate than, say, English where words are comparatively shorter and written separately.
In some cases, you need to mix and match and charge per word + per character, like on tax/financial documents where there are many abbreviated terms or acronyms that combine upwards of 7 or 8 words or more and require end notes or footnotes as explanations/expansions of the acronym.
Convenience is a luxury, yes, but you should do what's fair and makes sense to both you and the client. Neither one of you wants to get burned in the end (usually it's the translator), but as long as it's clear and objective how you do your calculation to reach your project estimate or total, either should be fine. ▲ Collapse
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Per source is good for drawing up a lump sum quote. A pre-accepted lump sum quote is harder to dispute, which means it's harder to justify payment delays on the basis of any supposed minor inconsistencies.
I also prefer source to target because it removes the ability to question long words or phrases on financial grounds.
However, I prefer character counts to word counts. It's easier to dispute what constitutes a word than what characters count.
The billabl... See more Per source is good for drawing up a lump sum quote. A pre-accepted lump sum quote is harder to dispute, which means it's harder to justify payment delays on the basis of any supposed minor inconsistencies.
I also prefer source to target because it removes the ability to question long words or phrases on financial grounds.
However, I prefer character counts to word counts. It's easier to dispute what constitutes a word than what characters count.
The billable hour might be even better. Law firms might even actually prefer it to less familiar translation-specific billing methods. ▲ Collapse
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| Source of course | Apr 29, 2013 |
Although I would prefer target -- because in my pair there is a difference of almost 20%...
| | | | | Adjust rates? | Apr 29, 2013 |
George Hopkins wrote:
Although I would prefer target -- because in my pair there is a difference of almost 20%...
Name different base rates for different charging methods? (And explain the difference in transparent terms for your clients to avoid driving up hopes of savings and subsequent disappointments.)
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 15:21
French to German
+ ...
| Law firms... | Apr 30, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
Per source is good for drawing up a lump sum quote. A pre-accepted lump sum quote is harder to dispute, which means it's harder to justify payment delays on the basis of any supposed minor inconsistencies.
I also prefer source to target because it removes the ability to question long words or phrases on financial grounds.
However, I prefer character counts to word counts. It's easier to dispute what constitutes a word than what characters count.
The billable hour might be even better. Law firms might even actually prefer it to less familiar translation-specific billing methods.
Law firms have been stuck in the "billable hours" scheme very much.
Thinking about it, I now favour a value-based approach.
If I am only there to "translate" (typing monkey, you get what I mean), then probably the job at hand is not for me.
If "anybody" can do the job, the client -direct or agency- has no reason to hire me in particular.
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