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FATCA and US citizens living abroad
Thread poster: Jonathan MacKerron
Kaiya J. Diannen
Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
German to English
Same Dec 3, 2014

Neptunia wrote:
For example, I could only sign up for an online brokerage account using my US address, not my "real" address...

I used to have accounts that accepted a foreign "mailing address", but one by one they started telling me they could no longer do that. It makes things a pain in the @$$, for sure.


 
Kaiya J. Diannen
Kaiya J. Diannen  Identity Verified
Australia
German to English
Sad/Scary Anecdote (sorry) :-( Dec 3, 2014

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/30/news/us-expat-tax/

"Bob Simison, who has lived in Australia for nearly a decade, said he was spending 40 hours a year to prepare his returns -- even though his income wasn't high enough to owe anything to Uncle Sam.

Then the IRS sent him a bill for thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes.

Simison believed the IRS had
... See more
http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/30/news/us-expat-tax/

"Bob Simison, who has lived in Australia for nearly a decade, said he was spending 40 hours a year to prepare his returns -- even though his income wasn't high enough to owe anything to Uncle Sam.

Then the IRS sent him a bill for thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes.

Simison believed the IRS had made a mistake, but was unable to find an accountant in Australia with the knowledge to help. So he contacted the agency himself. Simison said the process was "atrocious" -- and he was given conflicting instructions, and then an even larger bill, before the dispute was resolved a year later with help from a U.S. senator."
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Jonathan MacKerron
Jonathan MacKerron  Identity Verified
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Concrete information Feb 4, 2015

So now about 6 weeks after I asked my bank to clarify the situation I finally got a call from them today and can provide some concrete information as to actual practice, as least as far as this bank is concerned.

Although I don't remember doing so, I must have claimed my nationality at the time I opened this account some 13 years ago. This is important because I thought they had simply guessed my nationality based on my name.

Their policy is not to close accounts no mat
... See more
So now about 6 weeks after I asked my bank to clarify the situation I finally got a call from them today and can provide some concrete information as to actual practice, as least as far as this bank is concerned.

Although I don't remember doing so, I must have claimed my nationality at the time I opened this account some 13 years ago. This is important because I thought they had simply guessed my nationality based on my name.

Their policy is not to close accounts no matter what. However, according to the bank, if people they know for a fact, or even SUSPECT to be US citizens do not fill out the W-9, the bank will report them anyway to US authorities. They will also automatically deduct capital gains taxes from interest etc. (I forget the exact amount) and transfer this to the US as well.

If the total value of all accounts in any bank exceeds $50k on an annual average, the bank will automatically report the account holder to the US along with the required data. From what I gather, this also includes information such as when the account was opened, large 'suspicious' bank transfers, interest of any kind, all individual transfers upon request, and a few more items as well.

The bank claims that for accounts under $50K, this same information is stored separately under the account holder's name and only made available to US authorities upon request.

This bank is also amenable to closing an existing account and opening a new one, as long as a W-9 is provided for the new one.

Hope this sheds some on your questions.



[Edited at 2015-02-04 12:07 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-02-04 12:07 GMT]
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Jonathan MacKerron
Jonathan MacKerron  Identity Verified
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Filling out the form May 4, 2015

The deadline for filing the NFFBR form (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) is June 30. In bold it is proclaimed "The FBAR must be received by the Department of Treasury on or before June 30th of the year immediately following the calendar year being reported. The June 30th filing date may not be extended".

For each bank account the form requires either a "Maximum account value" or " Maximum account value unknown". Since the real maximum account value is nearly impossibl
... See more
The deadline for filing the NFFBR form (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts) is June 30. In bold it is proclaimed "The FBAR must be received by the Department of Treasury on or before June 30th of the year immediately following the calendar year being reported. The June 30th filing date may not be extended".

For each bank account the form requires either a "Maximum account value" or " Maximum account value unknown". Since the real maximum account value is nearly impossible to determine exactly on the basis of monthly bank statements, the bank should IMO provide this information.
Just got off the phone with one bank. They told me that for 2014 they are only reporting the account value as of Dec. 31, and that perhaps next year they would sort out the maximum account value bit.
Also don't know if I can enter the euro amount, inasmuch nowhere are US dollars mentioned as the required reporting currency.
Has anyone else dealt with this form or can perhaps provide more information?

Important bit of news:
One of my German banks just informed me that they would NOT be passing any of the required FATCA information for 2014!! Only in 2016 would they pass on the detailed information for 2015.

[Edited at 2015-05-04 07:40 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-04 09:29 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-04 09:30 GMT]
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Neptunia
Neptunia
Local time: 12:59
Italian to English
FBAR May 4, 2015

The FBAR is online (only online it seems) and it takes less than five minutes if you are familiar with it. Since my account is slowly growing, I just use the last figure from December of the previous year and convert it to dollars using the IRS offic... See more
The FBAR is online (only online it seems) and it takes less than five minutes if you are familiar with it. Since my account is slowly growing, I just use the last figure from December of the previous year and convert it to dollars using the IRS official exchange rate for that year. (google it or: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-Currency-Exchange-Rates) The only other info that you might have to dig up is the address of your bank that should be on a bank statement. I think it is important to do these things but not to spend any more time on them than necessary - and in the end, despite all the horror stories, I think it is the spirit of the law not the letter of the law that counts. If your account fluctuates so much that you can't easily pinpoint the max amount, just pick a number! It isn't like taxable income...they are just casting a wide net supposedly for money-laundering law enforcement purposes. Unless you are off by a few orders of magnitude, it can't possibly matter since the exchange rate fluctuations introduce a huge arbitrary variation all by themselves.
*And by the way, my Italian bank never got in touch with me over FATCA this year.... Shhh, don't tell them.
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Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 11:59
Danish to English
+ ...
Excel download? May 4, 2015

Some banks make it possible to download account movements in Excel format. If you can get the data into Excel, it should be quite simple to get the daily balance through the year calculated, then sort on that column (you may have to Copy Values of that column first) to find the maximum balance.

If you only have account movements in pdf, it may still be possible. I would start by getting it converted to Word or plain text (there are many conversion programmes around), then insert tab
... See more
Some banks make it possible to download account movements in Excel format. If you can get the data into Excel, it should be quite simple to get the daily balance through the year calculated, then sort on that column (you may have to Copy Values of that column first) to find the maximum balance.

If you only have account movements in pdf, it may still be possible. I would start by getting it converted to Word or plain text (there are many conversion programmes around), then insert tabs if necessary (^t in find/replace) to get data in different columns, then copy it to Excel.
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Jonathan MacKerron
Jonathan MacKerron  Identity Verified
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
2014 tax year May 4, 2015

To reiterate, one of my banks told me point blank that they would NOT be making any reports for 2014, which I assume is due to the fact they are not yet able to comply and have perhaps been given a grace period of one year to do so.
Still, according to the law (presumably in force globally by 2016 at the latest), the banks must report the "maximum account value", and it seems logical the banks would inform account holders of that number, once the system is up and running.

@Nep
... See more
To reiterate, one of my banks told me point blank that they would NOT be making any reports for 2014, which I assume is due to the fact they are not yet able to comply and have perhaps been given a grace period of one year to do so.
Still, according to the law (presumably in force globally by 2016 at the latest), the banks must report the "maximum account value", and it seems logical the banks would inform account holders of that number, once the system is up and running.

@Neptunia: just because the bank has not contacted you does not mean they would not make the declaration to US authorities. A person from the legal department of a German bank told me that if the account holder does not respond to requests to provide the form bearing the SS number, or even if the person is suspected of being a "US person", the bank is obliged to make the report nevertheless, even if the account holder is not/cannot be informed. In this case name, address, account numbers and balances are reported, even if a SS number is not available.

I too have given the end-of-year balance and also assume that there won't be any problems.
Moreover, anyone who has submitted a TD F 90-22.1 form in the past should definitely now file the FBAR, as the FBAR is basically an updated version of the TD F 90-22.1.

Here is the definitive explanation of who must file a FBAR:
"Who is required to report their foreign accounts to the government, and how do they do so? The Bank Secrecy Act requires U.S. persons who own a foreign bank account, brokerage account, mutual fund, unit trust, or other financial account to file a Form TD F 90-22.1, Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Authority (FBAR), if:
The person has financial interest in, signature authority, or other authority over one or more accounts in a foreign country, and
The aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.
A U.S. person is:
A citizen or resident of the United States, or
Any domestic legal entity such as a partnership, corporation, estate or trust."


[Edited at 2015-05-04 13:37 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-04 13:49 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-04 14:06 GMT]
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Jonathan MacKerron
Jonathan MacKerron  Identity Verified
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Help please May 21, 2015

Neptunia wrote:

The FBAR is online (only online it seems) and it takes less than five minutes if you are familiar with it. Since my account is slowly growing, I just use the last figure from December of the previous year and convert it to dollars using the IRS official exchange rate for that year. (google it or: http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Yearly-Average-Currency-Exchange-Rates) The only other info that you might have to dig up is the address of your bank that should be on a bank statement. I think it is important to do these things but not to spend any more time on them than necessary - and in the end, despite all the horror stories, I think it is the spirit of the law not the letter of the law that counts. If your account fluctuates so much that you can't easily pinpoint the max amount, just pick a number! It isn't like taxable income...they are just casting a wide net supposedly for money-laundering law enforcement purposes. Unless you are off by a few orders of magnitude, it can't possibly matter since the exchange rate fluctuations introduce a huge arbitrary variation all by themselves.
*And by the way, my Italian bank never got in touch with me over FATCA this year.... Shhh, don't tell them.


Hi Neptunia,
I am trying to fill out the FBAR PDF and have the following problem:
I cannot delete or negate "Part III, Information on Financial Account(s) Owned Jointly". This section does not apply to me, but when I try to "sign" the document when Part III is empty, it does not allow me to validate it and says I should fill out Part III, although there is no possibility to select "not applicable" or similar. In Part II, I am allowed to delete fields that do not apply. In my mind, by entering anything into Part III would mean that it applies to me, even though it does not.
I would be grateful for any light you or others might be able to shed on this. Have done a fair bit of googling but can't find anything about this particular problem.
Greetings from Berlin,
JM

[Edited at 2015-05-21 07:59 GMT]


 
Neptunia
Neptunia
Local time: 12:59
Italian to English
glitchy FBAR form? May 21, 2015

Hi Jonathan,
I didn't have that specific problem when I did it so I am not exactly sure what is going on, but I have a couple of guesses. I think the form is very "rigid" so somehow you convinced it that you were in the middle of filling out section III even though you weren't. Is it possible there is a stray character in any of those fields? maybe just a space? I did notice that there is a blue square plus and minus along the top of section III that allows you to add or subtract another a
... See more
Hi Jonathan,
I didn't have that specific problem when I did it so I am not exactly sure what is going on, but I have a couple of guesses. I think the form is very "rigid" so somehow you convinced it that you were in the middle of filling out section III even though you weren't. Is it possible there is a stray character in any of those fields? maybe just a space? I did notice that there is a blue square plus and minus along the top of section III that allows you to add or subtract another account and I would go ahead and click on the minus a few times to make sure you have really cleared any stray info. Otherwise I would try to start over from scratch or maybe even try from a different computer. I think there is a way to print out the form and sent in a paper copy if you really run out of options.
good luck!
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FATCA and US citizens living abroad







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