| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | How can a translator try to maintain a more or less constant workflow? Thread poster: Bárbara Hammerle López-Francos
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| What I can't get used to | Feb 23, 2015 |
The thing I can't get used to is the sudden change from being unbelievably busy, day and night, eating standing up in the kitchen, sometimes not even washing, finally completing and delivering the job and .....
Suddenly having absolutely nothing to do. Which is the state I'm in at the moment.
Maybe today, or maybe not even for a week, something will arrive and suddenly I'll be busy again.
I'm sure these dramatic changes of tempo must be stressful.
... See more The thing I can't get used to is the sudden change from being unbelievably busy, day and night, eating standing up in the kitchen, sometimes not even washing, finally completing and delivering the job and .....
Suddenly having absolutely nothing to do. Which is the state I'm in at the moment.
Maybe today, or maybe not even for a week, something will arrive and suddenly I'll be busy again.
I'm sure these dramatic changes of tempo must be stressful.
[Edited at 2015-02-23 17:10 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 00:08
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Same experience | Feb 23, 2015 |
Susan Welsh wrote:
Most of my clients have come to me via Proz -- not from bidding, but from direct inquiries from outsourcers who have searched for a translator. As you undoubtedly know, the names of members come up at the top of the list, ordered by Kudoz points. One decent job pays for the membership fee.
Most of my work comes through ProZ.com. This year, for example, I've done work for nine different clients so far (some new, others long-standing), and all of them came from this site or contacted me on the recommendation of clients I got from this site. I'd certainly have to put much more effort into maintaining a steady supply of work if I didn't pay for membership.
Most contacts are made through my profile, although a steady trickle of jobs have come from the public job board over the years - not a vast number, but enough to be worthwhile. I accept that most public job posts are a total waste of space (peanut rates, ridiculous deadlines, multiple hoops to jump through to even get on a database...) but it doesn't take a moment to disregard them, and there are some gems there too. I've landed jobs from agencies, fellow translators who outsource/pass on work for some reason, and quite a few from direct clients who have discovered the site.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Tom in London wrote:
I'm sure these dramatic changes of tempo must be stressful.
In my previous career there was no tempo; I was busy all the time. There were no quiet patches, just times when you felt slightly less harassed, but they never lasted. I can't prove it but I'm pretty sure that was more stressful than my current lifestyle.
Handling the busy times as a freelancer therefore comes easily: I just slip into the work mode I used for the previous twenty years.
But then some mornings there's no work about, and that's great. Apparently I can switch instantly into pottering mode with stressing about it at all. I get some gardening done or some work on the woodland, I take an hour or two with a book or one of my hobbies, have email chats with friends, work on the bike or the Landy. Brill.
For me, a constant workflow would destroy one of the most attractive aspects of freelancing.
Cheers
Dan
| | | | | All is not well in Translation Land | Feb 23, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Susan Welsh wrote:
Most of my clients have come to me via Proz -- not from bidding, but from direct inquiries from outsourcers who have searched for a translator. As you undoubtedly know, the names of members come up at the top of the list, ordered by Kudoz points. One decent job pays for the membership fee. Most of my work comes through ProZ.com. This year, for example, I've done work for nine different clients so far (some new, others long-standing), and all of them came from this site or contacted me on the recommendation of clients I got from this site. I'd certainly have to put much more effort into maintaining a steady supply of work if I didn't pay for membership. Most contacts are made through my profile, although a steady trickle of jobs have come from the public job board over the years - not a vast number, but enough to be worthwhile. I accept that most public job posts are a total waste of space (peanut rates, ridiculous deadlines, multiple hoops to jump through to even get on a database...) but it doesn't take a moment to disregard them, and there are some gems there too. I've landed jobs from agencies, fellow translators who outsource/pass on work for some reason, and quite a few from direct clients who have discovered the site.
I just have to say that's not my experience. Over the last few years, anyone who has approached me from Proz.com has proposed very low rates or put up their noses when I suggested fair prices. And I used to be a paying member with a great KudoZ record. No gems, sorry.
Yes, you can maintain a steady flow working for close to nothing, but you're not going to make ends meet, especially if you have to feed a family. And simply "making ends meet" is not a professional objective. I do rely on established and new "professional" business contacts. I do regard my profession as comparable with other professions in the academic field and the legal field. Most of us are highly educated and/or experienced (having lived/grown up in two cultures) and that is exactly what is required to be a good translator. My income level needs to approach that of these other highly skilled professions because the work I and many others do is indeed sophisticated and not comparable with that of an unskilled "laborer." But many people in this profession seem to be oblivious to that fact which doesn't make it easy for the rest of us. Thus, many clients are oblivious to it too. As I said before, if you're not making the money you should be making, you're doing something wrong. You let yourself be exploited.
Just saying that, so people new to this profession don't get the impression all is well in Translation Land and that working for peanuts is what they're expected to do. There are many pitfalls with that approach, from working too hard for too little money to not being able to make enough money to getting paid very late (45 -90 days after you've submitted a "rush" translation - because you accepted your client's terms when you should have worked at your own terms and conditions) to not getting paid at all (fighting to get your money for months or not being able to get it at all) to wasting your time (in general) that you could use much better trying to find other clients or even another job. To be a professional, you have to work with professionals for adequate (professional) rates.
[Edited at 2015-02-24 03:41 GMT]
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Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
German to English
+ ...
| "All is not well"? I beg to differ! | Feb 24, 2015 |
All is very well in my corner. I earn more money than I ever could working for someone else in a 9-5 office, I have the luxury of turning down work I know I won't enjoy and I am not "exploited" by any means. I'm usually booked about 2 weeks in advance. My clients are interesting, respectful and generally pay on time.
To answer the OP's question, I think everyone has had some good tips, especially the tip about negotiating new deadlines if the one suggested originally is not feasible... See more All is very well in my corner. I earn more money than I ever could working for someone else in a 9-5 office, I have the luxury of turning down work I know I won't enjoy and I am not "exploited" by any means. I'm usually booked about 2 weeks in advance. My clients are interesting, respectful and generally pay on time.
To answer the OP's question, I think everyone has had some good tips, especially the tip about negotiating new deadlines if the one suggested originally is not feasible. I would suggest the following:
1) Build up a solid clientele base, but I cannot stress enough that you should be picky about what work you do and who you do it with. Don't just take any old thing that comes along. Being picky means you weed out the work that takes you too long to do because it's not your forte. It means you weed out clients who would insist on paying a ridiculously low rate. Those are the negative things you avoid, but there are way more positives you gain from being picky: 1) you attract a nicer and higher-calibre clientele, the ones who care about quality and are willing to pay for it; 2) you get more work satisfaction because you are choosing to work on texts you enjoy; 3) your quality of work is better because you're enjoying your work and have better relationships with better clients.
It's about being patient, not panicky, and building up your reputation as a great translator so that you can slowly develop a clientele base with quality clients. Then they go and tell their friends about you, and you get more quality clients. Word of mouth is a powerful form of advertising.
2) Make sure your "shop window" is tidy, up-to-date and professional. Becoming a member of ProZ is actually a good start. I didn't have great clients approach me from ProZ until I became a certified pro this last year, and then suddenly a much higher calibre of clients started approaching me (I assume because of the added visibility that being a certified pro gives you on the site). But whether you join a site like ProZ or not, make sure that what clients see when they visit your profile(s) or website is a person who takes their profession seriously, who is reliable and trustworthy and will respond to emails in a timely manner.
So I guess my main tip is build up your client base so that if some of them go AWOL for a few weeks, you have others waiting in the wings. On a more practical, nitty-gritty note, I often use something along these lines when I think a job request is not going to go forward because either the client is asking for a rate that is too low or the deadline is not going to work for me:
"I think it's unlikely that we'll be able to work together on this project, as my normal rate is XXX OR because the earliest I could deliver would be XXX, but if you find that your budget OR deadline is more flexible, please do let me know -- I'd be happy to reconsider if the conditions change. And if in future you have another project with a more feasible budget OR deadline, please don't hesitate to contact me."
This little tidbit has worked like a charm in the past. Sometimes the client comes back and agrees to pay the rate I'm asking or renegotiates the deadline, and sometimes the client comes back later with a different project that is more suitable -- and yes, sometimes the client doesn't come back at all, but they leave without a bitter taste in their mouth for having dealt with me, so I know my reputation is still safe and sound (word of mouth really can help you or harm you!)
Oh and one last tip that has sometimes helped me with clients who have tight budgets: I have a client who is such a pleasure to work with but has a VERY tight budget which means I almost always have to turn down work from them because it's just not feasible for me. With clients like this, sometimes it's worth offering them a translation + proofreading service as budgets tend to be a little more flexible when you offer a package deal rather than just one part of the project. Obviously you charge more for this option, but even charging more it's usually more feasible for them because there's no post-processing work on their end. But obviously you have to be willing to put on your Project Manager hat for this and outsource the proofreading and then ultimately take responsibility for the final product as a whole, so this may not be your cup of tea.
[Edited at 2015-02-24 08:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-02-24 08:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Highlight that! | Feb 24, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
It's about being patient, not panicky, and building up your reputation as a great translator so that you can slowly develop a clientele base with quality clients. Then they go and tell their friends about you, and you get more quality clients. Word of mouth is a powerful form of advertising.
I often use something along these lines when I think a job request is not going to go forward because either the client is asking for a rate that is too low or the deadline is not going to work for me:
"I think it's unlikely that we'll be able to work together on this project, as my normal rate is XXX OR because the earliest I could deliver would be XXX, but if you find that your budget OR deadline is more flexible, please do let me know -- I'd be happy to reconsider if the conditions change. And if in future you have another project with a more feasible budget OR deadline, please don't hesitate to contact me."
This little tidbit has worked like a charm in the past.
IMO most translators who complain about low rates and/or abusive turnaround times lack... assertiveness!
This stems from their being unsure about two things:
a) that their price is right, i.e. that a client wanting their level of service, the value they offer, will be willing to pay that; and
b) that someone in the marketplace would be actually willing to pay that price for what they offer, in order to immediately replace the prospect in (a), in case they seek someone else.
I've covered what I call the balancing act, on another thread.
However assertiveness alone might render a translator cocky. So it should be assisted with some good salesmanship, at least superb customer service.
I've translated more training programs on customer service than any great salesman would have taken over a lifetime. Even if I were impervious to learning from the content I translate, I'd have learned a lot.
No, I'm not impervious to learning; no translator can afford to be. Much on the contrary, I strive to learn new things every day I live.
So I try to learn as much as I can about clients' needs, wants, contingencies, problems, etc. This continuously makes me better prepared to offer improved, cost-effective solutions to the issues different clients may be facing.
Some sales courses say that good customer service relies on empathy, seeing the situation from the client's standpoint in order to find a solution.
So while I learn about their needs & etc., I give back teaching them about viable solutions. This builds trust. As they see that I am trustworthy in finding solutions for their problems, they'll trust my assertiveness when I tell them that my price is fair and honest, considering what they'll get in return.
As Angela said at the outset, it takes patience, not despair.
For efficiency, I automated a good deal of my 'teaching': answers to the most frequent client questions/issues/problems are all over my web site. Anything not covered there, I'll handle personally, ad-hoc (and might later add the generalized Q&A to my site).
It took me several years, but since last June, so for eight months in a row already, I have been 97% of the time loaded to the lid with work. No, it's not one big project, not just one big client, but a wide variety on both axes.
I could be tempted to raise my rates, as now and then I have to divert the overspill to reliable colleagues I know. Yet I won't, for two reasons:
a) The workload is okay for my time and desired income; and
b) most of these clients are not price-sensitive enough to move on because of a change.
Now it's a matter of keeping up the good service, in the hope that this wave lasts. However Angela's point remains unchallenged: it takes patience, hence time. It won't happen overnight. In other words, it takes persistent assertiveness and empathy, possibly over a few years.
| | | | Richard Foulkes (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
German to English
+ ...
| That's impressive Susan | Feb 24, 2015 |
Susan Welsh wrote:
I don't know, maybe 15 good clients over 5-6 years (that's without looking at my records). I certainly get some emails via Proz from bottom-feeders, but I don't keep track of them, just delete them. Both of my language pairs are "crowded," but perhaps not as crowded as, say, the Spanish-English pair.
[Edited at 2015-02-23 23:15 GMT]
Good on you.
@Tom - Ditto. Except for the washing bit maybe .
| | | | | Fix your schedule | Feb 24, 2015 |
I think we should utilize our spare time intelligently. And should fix the timeline for each project.
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Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
German to English
+ ...
| Ah -- a kindred spirit! | Feb 24, 2015 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: IMO most translators who complain about low rates and/or abusive turnaround times lack... assertiveness! This stems from their being unsure about two things: a) that their price is right, i.e. that a client wanting their level of service, the value they offer, will be willing to pay that; and b) that someone in the marketplace would be actually willing to pay that price for what they offer, in order to immediately replace the prospect in (a), in case they seek someone else. I've covered what I call the balancing act, on another thread. However assertiveness alone might render a translator cocky. So it should be assisted with some good salesmanship, at least superb customer service.
Indeed! I have a motto that I pretty much live my life (both personal and professional) by, which many friends predict will be the title of my autobiography some day (ha!): NEVER QUOTE IN FEAR.
That means when you sit down to a negotiation, you remind yourself that this is not a war, it's a conversation. More like an interview where the main aim is to find out whether the two of you are a good fit. Keep the long-term picture in mind. This one job you're discussing is SO MINOR in the grand scheme of things. If the quote is unsuccessful, it's OK. There are always other jobs (possibly from that same client) There are always other clients. You may have to seek them proactively if they're not approaching you, but they're definitely there! Never let fear drive you.
I have had too many conversations with colleagues who say, "But what if they don't accept my price?" Well, so what? If their expectations are so unreasonable that there's no room for negotiation, you don't want them for a client because the cheapskates tend to also be the clients who want the moon, and they want it yesterday. And please don't take it personally! Some client requests (especially for low rates) are so laughable I have literally laughed out loud. But I never let the crazy requests offend me. After all, if they don't ask, they'll never know.
AND THE SAME APPLIES TO US: If we don't try out our "ideal rate", we'll never know if there might be someone out there who just might accept it. If the service you're providing is good, someone will be willing to pay the right price for it. And if this particular client isn't willing, they aren't the right fit. Go find someone who is.
But what bothers me to no end are the translators whining about low rates, bad-mouthing clients and blaming other translators for apparently "ruining" the market. That sort of behaviour reflects poorly on all of us and makes our profession look pathetic. And it can't be a very healthy mindset for the translators who actually believe the stuff they're saying. The negative vibes are doing more harm to your business than the colleague who undercuts your rates or the client who wants you to translate 100,000 words in two days for a fiver.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| If you've got it, they will come | Feb 24, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
There are always other jobs (possibly from that same client) There are always other clients. You may have to seek them proactively if they're not approaching you, but they're definitely there!
Even with my limited experience as a freelancer I feel able to second this. They are out there. If you're tackling the job as a professional rather than a part-timer, if you bid for specialised documents instead of competing for the least demanding and most general texts and (of course) if you're competent, the work is out there.
And I agree with Angela on the need not to assume that the industry is in a parlous state and to obsess over that idea. To do so is to risk getting trapped in negative thinking. That's not a recipe for serenity - or profit.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | One basic point on undercutting | Feb 24, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote (my emphasis here):
The negative vibes are doing more harm to your business than the colleague who undercuts your rates or the client who wants you to translate 100,000 words in two days for a fiver.
An agency may undercut another agency's rates by adopting a smaller markup on the SAME translator's rate.
Meanwhile, the only rate a freelancing translator may undercut is his/her own, by granting an unjustified discount on a whim, though under pressure.
One freelancing translator cannot undercut another one's rate simply because, being different individuals, they will NOT be offering the same level of service!
Check it out! Any decent auto magazine, every month, will have a section comparing two similar cars. Though they may resemble each other, cost about the same, each one will outperform the other in some specific criteria.
While cars are mass-produced, each individual is unique, therefore their work must have different strengths and weaknesses.
REAL CASE STUDY, which I have told over and over again:
An occasional client asked me for a cost estimate on a large job, and I gave it.
Later she called me to say she had found someone 25% cheaper. I thanked her for the heads-up, so I wouldn't mentally reserve time to do it.
She said 'no', and explained that she wanted ME to do it for 25% less.
I told her that it was my price. If I gave her a discount on that now, I'd be admitting that my estimate had been an attempt to rip her off, which is disallowed by my book.
Fortunately, she knew my work, so she'd be able to assess the cost/benefit I offer.
I told her she should get to know the cheaper translator's work, to compare both cost/benefit ratios, and then make a sound business decision. It would be her call.
Epilogue is that I got the order at my regular rate, as per my estimate.
The sad thing is that I'll never know if there really was another translator offering to do it for 25% less.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 00:08
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Okay, so it didn't work for you | Feb 24, 2015 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
I just have to say that's not my experience. Over the last few years, anyone who has approached me from Proz.com has proposed very low rates or put up their noses when I suggested fair prices. And I used to be a paying member with a great KudoZ record. No gems, sorry.
I'm sorry too, Bernhard. It's a shame when you make an effort and have hopes but then they don't come to anything.
Just saying that, so people new to this profession don't get the impression all is well in Translation Land and that working for peanuts is what they're expected to do. There are many pitfalls with that approach, from working too hard for too little money to not being able to make enough money to getting paid very late (45 -90 days after you've submitted a "rush" translation - because you accepted your client's terms when you should have worked at your own terms and conditions) to not getting paid at all (fighting to get your money for months or not being able to get it at all) to wasting your time (in general) that you could use much better trying to find other clients or even another job. To be a professional, you have to work with professionals for adequate (professional) rates.
We agree entirely, and I firmly believe that it's a lack of self-respect that's behind most of the woes. Everyone's going to have a few bad experiences at the start of their career, as they learn how things work and find their feet; but those still working years later with that type of client needs to look seriously at their own professionalism.
However, your post infers that this exploitation is inevitable when working with clients you've met through ProZ.com, and there we have to disagree. I can assure you that I, personally, have never accepted below my published rates, never longer than my own 30-day-month-end term, never crazy deadlines . . . and by the 15th of the month I've received settlement of almost all my invoices. My rates aren't terribly high but they're very average, and 5 times the minimum wage in Spain (if you can get it, with over 35% unemployment where I live). So please don't assume that other people are automatically going to have the same experience as you. Susan and I have clearly stated that we have not.
Basically, if people are open to being exploited, they'll be exploited - whether they're freelance translator, road sweepers or IT geeks. You even hear about executives who end up working in cupboards etc., being bullied. Unfortunately, the weakest will be trampled on by some people, whatever human rights laws decree. I'll try to help those translators in that position who reach out for help, but I'm certainly not about to join them!
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Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:08
German to English
+ ...
| Just to clarify... | Feb 24, 2015 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Angela Rimmer wrote (my emphasis here):
The negative vibes are doing more harm to your business than the colleague who undercuts your rates or the client who wants you to translate 100,000 words in two days for a fiver. One freelancing translator cannot undercut another one's rate simply because, being different individuals, they will NOT be offering the same level of service!
Just to clarify, I personally don't think of it as translators undercutting other translators. I was saying if that's how you feel, your business has a bigger problem than that: your own negativity. (You, the hypothetical you, not anyone else on this forum.)
I personally don't feel in competition with or threatened by any of my colleagues. I think my rates are fair, I'm happy for others if they think theirs are fair -- even if they work in my language combination, even if they charge less than me, and even if I am of the opinion from first-hand experience that they are better translators than me. And even if they offer exactly the same services as me. The way I see it, there's plenty of work to go around if you have the drive to go looking for it, and I'm motivated and inspired when I see others succeed. I actually have a few business ideas around this concept, but I'm not done mulling them over yet, so I'll keep mum for now
| | | | | I wasn't pointing a finger at you | Feb 24, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Angela Rimmer wrote (my emphasis here):
The negative vibes are doing more harm to your business than the colleague who undercuts your rates or the client who wants you to translate 100,000 words in two days for a fiver. One freelancing translator cannot undercut another one's rate simply because, being different individuals, they will NOT be offering the same level of service! Just to clarify, I personally don't think of it as translators undercutting other translators. I was saying if that's how you feel, your business has a bigger problem than that: your own negativity. (You, the hypothetical you, not anyone else on this forum.) I personally don't feel in competition with or threatened by any of my colleagues. I think my rates are fair, I'm happy for others if they think theirs are fair -- even if they work in my language combination, even if they charge less than me, and even if I am of the opinion from first-hand experience that they are better translators than me. And even if they offer exactly the same services as me. The way I see it, there's plenty of work to go around if you have the drive to go looking for it, and I'm motivated and inspired when I see others succeed. I actually have a few business ideas around this concept, but I'm not done mulling them over yet, so I'll keep mum for now
My point is that I hear/read too many translators complaining about "fellow translators undercutting their rates". Most likely you hear/read them too.
Incidentally, most of the colleagues I refer jobs/prospects to adopt the very same rates I do. Yes, it is a closed loop. I surveyed them to set my rates, and they surveyed me likewise. We may have different core specialties, but our level of service/competence is about the same; we rank each other as equivalent.
When I see a translator charging less than I would for something I can do, I know there are two possibilities:
a) They don't know that the value package they deliver is worth more; or
b) the value package they offer is actually worth less than mine.
Of course, they may be currently empty-handed, to a varying level of desperation. My rationale is that if they take this job at a lower rate, they will be busy if a better-paying one comes up in the meantime. I might be free to take the latter...
| | | | | Different perspectives | Feb 24, 2015 |
Angela Rimmer wrote:
All is very well in my corner. I earn more money than I ever could working for someone else in a 9-5 office, I have the luxury of turning down work I know I won't enjoy and I am not "exploited" by any means. I'm usually booked about 2 weeks in advance. My clients are interesting, respectful and generally pay on time.
Wow, and you get all this through Proz.com?!
[/quote] Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Over the last few years, anyone who has approached me from Proz.com has proposed very low rates or put up their noses when I suggested fair prices.[/quote]
What I regard as fair and adequate might be something completely different from what you see as such.
All is certainly not well in Translation Land - when thousands of translators compete for rock bottom jobs.
I am not saying there isn't good stuff out there, but whatever happens on this portal does have an impact on us all.
To answer the original question, I can certainly not recommend taking low-paying projects to keep a constant flow of work. That constant flow of work comes with a flood of problems.
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