| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | What is really happening in the business?? Thread poster: José J. Martínez
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Jeff Whittaker 
United States
Local time: 16:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| With regard to sollicitng work from direct clients... | Jul 2, 2015 |
... does anyone have any advice or techniques for weeding out the small, annoying projects from individuals?
Every time I have actively sought out direct clients, I get a stream of small, unprofitable, time consuming one-off projects (birth certificates, divorce papers, school transcripts, etc.) from people who waste my time either because they want to pay a pittance, want everything notarized, or want perpetual after-sales service (questions, revisions).
Direct clients... See more ... does anyone have any advice or techniques for weeding out the small, annoying projects from individuals?
Every time I have actively sought out direct clients, I get a stream of small, unprofitable, time consuming one-off projects (birth certificates, divorce papers, school transcripts, etc.) from people who waste my time either because they want to pay a pittance, want everything notarized, or want perpetual after-sales service (questions, revisions).
Direct clients often want to reach you on the phone (or has this changed in the past five years?), but every time I list my phone number, I get endless calls from privates wanting driver's licenses, immigration papers, etc. translated and they won't take no for an answer and/or they keep giving me a sob story about how they can't pay so much, etc. and I end up wasting a lot of time. Many of them don't have computer access and want to come to my house and give me the document and wait while I translate...
I have tried stating on my website that I don't translate these types of documents, but the calls keep coming.
How can I politely turn these people away, while still remaining open to other projects?
With an agency, when you can't or don't want to take a project, you can just say no, and they understand. How do you tell a direct client that yes, I translate German, but no I do not translate medical German?
In other words, what techniques do you use to streamline and simplify the project acquisition process that is normally handled by the agency and mitigate the need to spend so much time in the procurement/quoting phase?
[Edited at 2015-07-02 19:50 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | José J. Martínez
United States
Local time: 13:09
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | With regard to sollicitng work from direct clients... | Jul 2, 2015 |
I think I have gone through the whole array of documents and requests, etc.
From crooked PDFs that cannot be OCRed to forms with minute lettering, such as birth certificates and DLs. Sometimes the client is so persistent that they become a stone in the shoe. In by book the word NO does not exist (not true) but the phrase "I am busy, please call me next week" does.
I now ask for one or two pages of the work at hand to be able to determine price. Many jobs are PDF and mus... See more I think I have gone through the whole array of documents and requests, etc.
From crooked PDFs that cannot be OCRed to forms with minute lettering, such as birth certificates and DLs. Sometimes the client is so persistent that they become a stone in the shoe. In by book the word NO does not exist (not true) but the phrase "I am busy, please call me next week" does.
I now ask for one or two pages of the work at hand to be able to determine price. Many jobs are PDF and must be OCRed and if there is a whole bunch of table and special design requires, well, that should cost extra.
Curiously, the penny jobs are the ones that cause the most problems. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| I wouldn't work with individuals | Jul 2, 2015 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
How can I politely turn these people away, while still remaining open to other projects?
Put the following on a prominent position on your web site and respond with a similarly phrased stock email to all private individuals:
"Jeff Corp offers business-to-business services for corporate clients only. Unfortunately we are unable to deal with individuals. We thank you for your understanding."
I suppose that there must be some good individual clients out there, but I doubt that there are many. Not worth the hassle, surely.
Regards
Dan
| | | | José J. Martínez
United States
Local time: 13:09
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | No to individuals. | Jul 2, 2015 |
Thank you, I have now modified my profile.
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 16:09
Japanese to English
+ ...
| business issues | Jul 3, 2015 |
I handle this as follows:
"I'm sorry. I don't handle personal documents. A general translation agency would be better equipped to handle this type of document."
I also set a minimum charge per order: USD 50.00 domestic; USD 100.00 overseas.
If the client is a heavy/frequent user, then there is no minimum and I will frequently do small jobs for this type of client at no charge.
This week I have also handled a number of clients requesting my "best" rate as ... See more I handle this as follows:
"I'm sorry. I don't handle personal documents. A general translation agency would be better equipped to handle this type of document."
I also set a minimum charge per order: USD 50.00 domestic; USD 100.00 overseas.
If the client is a heavy/frequent user, then there is no minimum and I will frequently do small jobs for this type of client at no charge.
This week I have also handled a number of clients requesting my "best" rate as follows:
"My best rate is USD 0.12/word. If this is acceptable, I would be glad to send you a CV".
I have yet to hear from any of them. ▲ Collapse
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
... does anyone have any advice or techniques for weeding out the small, annoying projects from individuals?
==> I do not have a website for this reason.
And if someone calls me on behalf of the translator's association, I say that I am a business translator and VAT-registered.
Small projects coming from my regular clients are more annoying, especially if these are things other translators refused.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 16:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Thank you all for your suggestions.... | Jul 3, 2015 |
...but I'm afraid I did not adequately express the magnitude of my problem.
Here's what would happen virtually on a daily basis (sometimes two or three times a day):
Caller (in Spanish): Hello, I need my birth certificate translated. You do for me please.
Me: I'm sorry, but as it says on my website, I don't translate birth certificates.
Caller: I need it notarized and for tomorrow please.
Me: Like I just said, I don't do this type ... See more ...but I'm afraid I did not adequately express the magnitude of my problem.
Here's what would happen virtually on a daily basis (sometimes two or three times a day):
Caller (in Spanish): Hello, I need my birth certificate translated. You do for me please.
Me: I'm sorry, but as it says on my website, I don't translate birth certificates.
Caller: I need it notarized and for tomorrow please.
Me: Like I just said, I don't do this type of work.
Caller: What am I supposed to do? I need this for Monday. Can't you make an exception?
Me: You can call XXXXX Translations at xxxx and they can help you.
Caller: Thank you so much.
-------------------
Ten minutes later
Caller: You gave me that number, but they want so much money. I can't pay that much. I really need this.
Me: I'm sorry. My rate would also have been xxx.xx, translation can be expensive.
Caller: Oh, can you give me a discount. I'm very poor. I need help.
Me: Here's the number of an organization that may be able to help you.
Caller: I called them already. They also want me to pay too much. Please, please, I'm desperate. If I don't get this done by tomorrow I will lose my job. You're supposed to help me. Your website says you do Spanish translations. [They may even start to cry at this point]
Me: No, I don't do birth certificates for individuals because they take a lot of time and there are not really profitable for me.
Caller: So it's all about the money. XXX.XX is a lot of money for me. Please, just this one time. It's very small. It will only take you ten minutes. Ten minutes to help a person in need. I would be so grateful. What is your address so I can come to your office and we can discuss this in person?
Me: I only work with other companies.
Caller: My sister has a company.
Me: I'm sorry, I can't help you.
'
------------------
Ten minutes later
Caller (in broken English): Hello, this is xxxxx's brother/cousin/mother/father. Perhaps you didn't understand, but xxxx really needs this for Monday. How much do you charge again.... That's too much. It's just one page...
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Then I started to get calls from people in China and India who wanted my advice on how to set up a translation business, how to get work as a translator. Calls from agencies that wanted to outsource work from me, and on and on an on. At that point, I had to just change my phone number.
Writing this has given me the idea that the ideal situation would be to hire a secretary (or perhaps there is now an outsourced virtual secretary) to screen out all these calls. I wonder how much that would cost?
[Edited at 2015-07-03 12:36 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
... to screen out all these calls.
Don't give out your phone number so readily and don't answer numbers you don't recognise.
When they then email for a quote, state a price so high they are bound to refuse and if they accept, the money will ease the pain of doing work that does not appeal.
Like you, I am reluctant to take everything that comes my way - CVs, certificates, student essays and so on. I find this weeds most of them out.
Obviously it might weed out more than that
I've seen a few bits of advice against putting negative statements on a website ("we don't do medical", or "please don't ask me to translate your birth certificate") and I can see how it looks bad (accentuate the positive, and all that), but do whatever works for you, ultimately.
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| Standard documents | Jul 3, 2015 |
I know it might do us out of a bit of work, but I've often thought that for documents like birth certificates there could be some sort of universal standard translation template valid for all languages that would include all the information anyone would need. So you'd have a list or table something like:
Child's name:
Child's sex:
Date of birth:
Place of birth:
Child's mother:
Child's father:
Date of certificate:
Number of certificate:
... See more I know it might do us out of a bit of work, but I've often thought that for documents like birth certificates there could be some sort of universal standard translation template valid for all languages that would include all the information anyone would need. So you'd have a list or table something like:
Child's name:
Child's sex:
Date of birth:
Place of birth:
Child's mother:
Child's father:
Date of certificate:
Number of certificate:
Registering authority:
or whatever, and you could just add a statement to the effect that the document you've translated contains that information. And that would be it, for any language. And you could do something similar with other documents (degree certificates, for example), rather than having to faff about with the formatting and so on.
(Someone's going to tell me why this would not be a good idea now.)
[Edited at 2015-07-03 13:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 16:09
German to English
Alistair Gainey wrote:
I know it might do us out of a bit of work, but I've often thought that for documents like birth certificates there could be some sort of universal standard translation template valid for all languages that would include all the information anyone would need.
(Someone's going to tell me why this would not be a good idea now.)
[Edited at 2015-07-03 13:47 GMT]
This approach makes a lot of sense, and perhaps it could be implemented within the EU in keeping with other harmonization efforts.
However ...
Based on personal experience with bureaucrats, both in the US and abroad, many like to see a rough 1:1 correspondence of the formats of both documents. I presume that this is a misguided effort to prevent fraud (if the translation looks like the original, it must be real).
In the same vein, the last time I translated a personal document, a representative from the Michigan Secretary of State contacted me to tell me that translations had to be printed on the translator's letterhead stationery, and that my letterhead was obviously produced on a laser printer. It took some doing to convince the woman that most translators printed their letterhead on a laser printer. Fortunately the format of the driver's license followed that of the original, so at least I didn't have to cross that hurdle.
| | | | José J. Martínez
United States
Local time: 13:09
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | What is really happening in the business?? | Jul 3, 2015 |
If I may, my original topic was to inquire what was happening in the business and little by little it has edged out of topic. My view is that if one is out there, one is always exposed to the Mickey Mouse jobs like Birth Certificates and Driver's Licenses. Those little jobs instead of translations, become graphic arts jobs. One can deal with the requesters in two main ways, shutting them out or "being busy".
I have found a new company from the USA. I got into their site and maybe th... See more If I may, my original topic was to inquire what was happening in the business and little by little it has edged out of topic. My view is that if one is out there, one is always exposed to the Mickey Mouse jobs like Birth Certificates and Driver's Licenses. Those little jobs instead of translations, become graphic arts jobs. One can deal with the requesters in two main ways, shutting them out or "being busy".
I have found a new company from the USA. I got into their site and maybe they made a typo...they offer USD$ 0.03 for translation. OMG, I think that if that is what is tending to prevail, then the age of machine translation has come, and I now suspect why I am getting less and less work.
Hopefully we can stay on the subject but please note, one must make a living and this can be accomplished by delivering quality work. However if the competition is disloyal....
Well, I want to give an anecdote of when I was still in the brewing industry that became a real bucketful of cold water for me:
I was selling into a big brewery in Latin America a fermentation product to avoid off-flavors. I would get a yearly Purchase Order. I went to visit their purchasing department at the start of the year to secure my yearly purchase order. My product almost had no increases in price but when I got there and spoke with the buyer, he said that my price of USD$ 1100 per metric ton was unacceptable, he said that he had a much better offer from another vendor at about half the price but that the price offered was imported price landded at their warehouse and distributed to their other breweries, and our price was FOB Chicago and he would have to add freight and import costs and even in-country distribution. I asked where the other vendor was from and he only sad that it came from Asia. So I lost the order. I still had other products that I was selling them but this was a big blow to us. My last question to him was "Will you be willing to use a possible low quality product in your fine beers"? His reply was: "as long as the product passes Quality Control, I will buy it and we will use it".
Our production facility could not even dream of producing the product so cheap. It was obviously a dumped product but that is what I learned, if someone is willing to pay a small amount for translations that will pass Quality Control, one can be Jules Verne and not get the Purchase Order. Maybe this is the crude reality.
[Edited at 2015-07-03 15:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-03 15:55 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Angela Malik
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
German to English
+ ...
| Lots of different clients, and Jeff: try guilt-tripping them? | Jul 3, 2015 |
José J. Martínez wrote:
...My last question to him was "Will you be willing to use a possible low quality product in your fine beers"? His reply was: "as long as the product passes Quality Control, I will buy it and we will use it".
...that is what I learned, if someone is willing to pay a small amount for translations that will pass Quality Control, one can be Jules Verne and not get the Purchase Order. Maybe this is the crude reality.
This is what I find myself repeating over and over to the translators who insist on complaining about "peanuts" (and as an aside, it's to the point now where if someone even says the word "peanuts" in a complaint about rates, I have a very hard time taking them seriously -- those people do not seem interested in focusing on anything but negativity; my impression is that they just want to complain and do not want to hear about real solutions)
Anyway, my point is, that there will ALWAYS be clients who, either for budget reasons or because they really simply do not care, will choose less quality for less money as long as it meets the bare minimum of what they need. And that's fine, many businesses succeed that way. They are not focused on high quality, but then again, perhaps neither are their own customers. But there are always other customers out there who do want high quality and are willing to pay for it. So let the agencies offering crazy-low prices do their thing, and you do yours, with your own customers who do have the same goals in mind as you in terms of what the translation should be and how much it should cost.
To Jeff: Maybe you can play the same game as those individual callers do: give them your own sob story. "I'm so sorry, I really do understand your situation and if I could help I would, but you see, my brother is a heavy gambler and he has put our family into so much debt, we will soon lose our home if I do not charge this much, so you see, if I could help you I would but I cannot put my sister and her two small children and my ailing mother on the street by dropping my prices..." (This whole paragraph was only a half-joke)
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 16:09
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Shift in client type | Jul 3, 2015 |
José J. Martínez wrote: I started translating very heavily in 2007. The jobs were coming in steadily and once I joined a New York company as Freelancer, well for me it was like being in a Gold Rush even at the reduce rates that they were willing to pay. I did have to wait for the first 45 days to go by and then started receiving $$ constantly. Other firms became my clients at improved rates and all was great. It was so good that I felt that I was really working for the IRS. This was the trend until last year. The jobs were erratic from other clients but from my main company things were ok. They did become more demanding in their deadlines but that was ok because with my trusty CAT and huge Translation Memories, I could cope with their requirements. This year however, I am totally puzzled. The offers are at fees below half of 2007, the jobs are scarce, the subjects not so good anymore. I am sure that many clients are using mechanical translation systems and then manicure their translations. I want to know if this same thing is happening to most translators. My pair is EN /SP, and even if I have great relationships with my clients, they just claim there is little work in the language pair. Please inform if you are also going through the dry spell. Sincerely, [email protected]
I am not going through a "dry spell", in fact it seems busier than ever, but when I think about it I see my client base has changed over the last few years. I get less agency work now and more direct client work. I haven't deliberately gone after direct work, it has just grown up that way. The agency work I still get tends to be with higher-end agencies, the lower-end ones seem to have dropped away, probably because I wouldn't cut my rates.
Considering my direct clients, in all but one case, a large multinational corporation, I am dealing directly with the president. Is this an indicator of where in a corporation to make contact? In the case of the large corporation I am dealing with the languages department, which is rather like an in-house agency.
The impression I get is that the internet is making a difference in this industry that I see in other industries as well. I'm not talking about technology but that the internet is cutting out the middleman, and putting producers and consumers directly in touch with each other. I think it's becoming harder for agencies, but I don't see any reduction in volume to be professionally translated, rather the opposite.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
At that point, I had to just change my phone number.
You need to learn to put the phone down. Give a crisp, clear "I can't help you. Goodbye". And hang up. And keep hanging up if they call back. Eventually they will go for a softer touch.
They have no right to your time.
Regards
Dan
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 16:09
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Or perhaps... | Jul 3, 2015 |
... I can now just refer them to this site: http://bit.ly/1LIRptV where there are close to 2,000 people with 7 to 20 years of translation experience wiling to translate 500 to 1000 words of anything for just $5.00 (complete with videos and lots of positive feedback).
They are actually competing by offering to do more and more words for $5.00 (and all in 24 hours).
Dan Lucas wrote:
You need to learn to put the phone down. Give a crisp, clear "I can't help you. Goodbye". And hang up. And keep hanging up if they call back. Eventually they will go for a softer touch.
They have no right to your time.
Regards
Dan
[Edited at 2015-07-03 22:18 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-07-03 22:22 GMT]
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