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Advice on ending a collaboration
Thread poster: Chloe Vaughn
Noni Gilbert Riley
Noni Gilbert Riley
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Spanish to English
+ ...
Act now! Nov 29, 2015

The more work you continue to do for this customer, the greater the risk of not getting paid.

Have you at any time given a written agreement - ie by e-mail - to take on all the work he send you?

No?

Well, send him written notice NOW that you will not be accepting any further work. I don't think it is wise to give him any notice since it does sound likely that he will try not to pay you from the moment he hears this news from you. I wouldn't even give a reas
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The more work you continue to do for this customer, the greater the risk of not getting paid.

Have you at any time given a written agreement - ie by e-mail - to take on all the work he send you?

No?

Well, send him written notice NOW that you will not be accepting any further work. I don't think it is wise to give him any notice since it does sound likely that he will try not to pay you from the moment he hears this news from you. I wouldn't even give a reason - you have no need to since you have no commitment.

Do NOT take any more phone calls from him - and if he contacts you by mail complaining that you are not answering the phone, tell him in writing that you have applied this rule globally to all your clients: "ALL COMMUNICATION WILL BE IN WRITING". Do not risk any more communications being impossible to trace. By the way, do apply this global rule anyway!

Complete work in hand and deliver within the deadlines agreed upon. Bill immediately, and make it quite clear that you intend to be paid, by sending polite reminders immediately an account becomes overdue, and then follow the correct procedure if payment is not forthcoming.

Threatening with Blue Board comments is no use to you now, - quite apart from not being in the spirit of the tool - but you should make your entry when you have finished dealings with him. You might consider making an earlier entry if payment is a long time coming, but I doubt how useful it's going to be for you as leverage. Don't tell him in advance.

And get on with all those other things you should have been doing with your time! If the worst comes to the worst, and he were to fail to paid you, then at least you have accumulated the translation experience and perhaps some useful TMs. And, by the way, those translations are your property until you are paid for them!

If, however, there is a written agreement to do all this work for him, we are, unfortunately, a bit stuck. In that case, you'll have to give him reasonable notice - a month would be reasonable in my opinion.

Good luck!
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Noni Gilbert Riley
Noni Gilbert Riley
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Spanish to English
+ ...
@Ilan: What, and incur further financial risk? Nov 29, 2015

ILAN RUBIN wrote:

Why not just outsource to the translator who offered to help? And / or to some other translators? And take a cut for quality control / checking their work?


If you outsource, then YOU are responsible for paying the outsourcer. So instead of "just" working and perhaps not being paid for this, the asker would be having to put money up front.

Oh no.


 
Chloe Vaughn
Chloe Vaughn  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:53
German to English
TOPIC STARTER
No written agreement Nov 29, 2015

There was never any written agreement to accept all this work. I have one project outstanding which is due tomorrow, which I will make clear is the last one I will accept.

I only wish I'd sought out this advice sooner, as I've been looking at the whole thing backwards. Being asked to accept a lower rate should have been the first sign to get out, and fast.

The whole thing is just puzzling to me because the outsourcer does not seem to be someone with little experience
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There was never any written agreement to accept all this work. I have one project outstanding which is due tomorrow, which I will make clear is the last one I will accept.

I only wish I'd sought out this advice sooner, as I've been looking at the whole thing backwards. Being asked to accept a lower rate should have been the first sign to get out, and fast.

The whole thing is just puzzling to me because the outsourcer does not seem to be someone with little experience who is simply looking to make money off of translators. I believe he has been in the business for many years, and has a large and prestigious end client. That said, none of this is a reflection of character; some people are just awful to work with.

If I run into trouble with payment, I expect I'll be inquiring after more advice. As some of you have mentioned, non-paying clients come with the territory.
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Noni Gilbert Riley
Noni Gilbert Riley
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Spanish to English
+ ...
I do hope you won't be needing more advice on payment ... Nov 29, 2015

... but if you do, here we are cvaughn, although there is already plenty to look at on the subject in the forums!

Sometimes it may seem a bit "here we go again" to start discussing ways of claiming payment, but I never think it's a waste of time to run through it all again - it is bound to be a timely reminder for someone to keep applying best practice.


 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
That's good for you Nov 29, 2015

Chloe Vaughn wrote:

The whole thing is just puzzling to me because the outsourcer does not seem to be someone with little experience who is simply looking to make money off of translators. I believe he has been in the business for many years, and has a large and prestigious end client.


Then he'll have a reputation to protect and will pay what he owes.


 
Balasubramaniam L.
Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 03:23
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
My penny's worth Nov 30, 2015

I am sorry to hear your predicament. This is what I think you should do to extricate yourself from this unenviable situation -

It is quite clear that this is not a sustainable working relationship and should be terminated at the earliest, but it should be done in such a way that there is minimum damage to you - both financial and emotional.

The financial part is easy to handle. If you are too dependent on the income that his work generates for you, start looking for oth
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I am sorry to hear your predicament. This is what I think you should do to extricate yourself from this unenviable situation -

It is quite clear that this is not a sustainable working relationship and should be terminated at the earliest, but it should be done in such a way that there is minimum damage to you - both financial and emotional.

The financial part is easy to handle. If you are too dependent on the income that his work generates for you, start looking for other sources of income on a war footing so that the drying up of the money that comes from his project does not financially inconvenience you. Once you have achieved this, you should proceed to the next step which is the actual termination of his work. If you are not too dependent on the income from his project, then you should accelerate the process of termination of his work so that you become free of him at the earliest.

The way you should go about terminating his work is to gradually reduce your responsiveness to his communications. Don't receive phone calls, or call him back, etc. Don't answer his emails promptly, don't submit work too soon, and miss a few deadlines, in order to give him clear messages. At the same time, start insisting on payment in a dignified manner and if payments don't come on time, increase the volley of your protests. You will need to be assertive on this point.

In my view, it won't help to keep threatening him about stopping his work, nor would it work to politely request him to reduce the volume of work he gives you. He actually benefits by giving more and more work to you, which is why he does this. It is you who are affected by the volume of work and therefore it is you who have a stake in getting this volume of work reduced, which means you will have to unilaterally take such steps that reduce his work. And more than talk, it is action that will actually yield results - issuing advance warnings will actually be counter-productive as this will give him a handle over you as he would be aware of your course of action.

My final recommendation is to keep things at a professional level. Deal with him in a mature, adult manner (here by adult I mean the "I am OK, you are OK" terminology) without bringing in emotions or sentiments into the matter.

Also consider whether he has any other power over you such as social or emotional influence over you, and if this is the case, then matters would become more complicated and it might even help to get professional counselling to help you overcome this influence without emotional damage to you.

The bottom line is, you have to take control of the situation and say enough is enough. Having let matters drift to this level, you should also be prepared for some financial (and emotional) loss, but which, when weighed against the riddance of the botheration that his projects are for you, would be a small price to pay.

Good luck.

[Edited at 2015-11-30 06:07 GMT]
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Angela Malik
Angela Malik  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:53
German to English
+ ...
Don't raise your rate, just get out as soon as possible Nov 30, 2015

Chloe Vaughn wrote:

Michele: Interesting idea, one I hadn't thought of. I might try it, however at this point I think it's best to simply get out from under the collaboration in the most honest and direct way possible. ... I think suggesting a higher rate might just make him angrier than simply ceasing further work.


Chloe,

I think raising your rate is both pointless and a bad move that will only drag out this situation unnecessarily. This relationship is toxic, both because your client is a bully and does not respect your limits, and because you allow him to bully you and disrespect those limits (I am not judging you, please know this, but we need to be honest and realistic about it).

At this point it is clear that your personal health and happiness are being affected, and let's honestly think about this: is there ANY amount of money that would make it OK for this guy to rule your life, phone you up and be verbally abusive, force you to let other people in your life down because you have to drop previous commitments, put your research grant in jeopardy, and make you feel trapped with him just because he lies and bulldozes you into accepting more work?


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 22:53
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Perhaps a recommendation would help? Nov 30, 2015

Maybe one of the numerous fellow translators, who gave you a lot of advices, simply could help you out by recommending you to another outsourcer to ensure your further income, shouldn´t you have other sources of income to bridge the time following when he abruptly stops payment? German to English isn´t one of the combinations with a low need on the market and your profile shows that you could stand in many fields of expertise, at least in proofreading documents translated into English. Once th... See more
Maybe one of the numerous fellow translators, who gave you a lot of advices, simply could help you out by recommending you to another outsourcer to ensure your further income, shouldn´t you have other sources of income to bridge the time following when he abruptly stops payment? German to English isn´t one of the combinations with a low need on the market and your profile shows that you could stand in many fields of expertise, at least in proofreading documents translated into English. Once there is an alternative, it would be easier for you to run away from him, even with the risk that he does not pay all outstanding invoices. By the way: in what country is your outsourcer based? In Germany? Then it would be easy to sue him, especially when you are in Germany for longer time, as you said further above.Collapse


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:53
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Cut your losses Nov 30, 2015

I sympathise with your uncomfortable situation, Chloe.

For the sake of your mental and emotional health, I urge you to cease accepting work from this man without delay. Your plan to finish the current job, dispatch it and the corresponding invoice and then to accept no further orders is good. Stick to it.
Switch on the answerphone so that you don't have to speak to him and receive any more verbal abuse. You can call back anyone else who's left a message, just not him!
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I sympathise with your uncomfortable situation, Chloe.

For the sake of your mental and emotional health, I urge you to cease accepting work from this man without delay. Your plan to finish the current job, dispatch it and the corresponding invoice and then to accept no further orders is good. Stick to it.
Switch on the answerphone so that you don't have to speak to him and receive any more verbal abuse. You can call back anyone else who's left a message, just not him!

In the worst scenario, he may decide not to pay what he owes you. Upsetting though that would be, financial loss is, perhaps, the price we have to pay for making unwise decisions. Ultimately, it will be a price worth paying to be rid of the stress the existing "relationship" is causing you. You WILL find other clients and other sources of income. You will have the time you need to do your research work.

Cutting one's losses can make sense - in business and in other matters, too - such as a painful divorce. It's worth getting out of a miserable situation even if you lose financially. Think what you will gain in terms of relief and peace of mind!
Courage, ma belle!
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:53
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Just a comment on Bala's very useful post Nov 30, 2015

That professional attitude he advises you to adopt is very important, especially if you do have to chase him all the way for payment. Just think of it in terms of temperature. When he becomes abusive, he's getting heated. Well, don't follow him there; stay cool. In fact, the grittier things get, the cooler you should get, to the point of cold formality if necessary. Be ultra polite and correct at all times. Remember, you've done and are doing nothing wrong. You're playing everything by the book.... See more
That professional attitude he advises you to adopt is very important, especially if you do have to chase him all the way for payment. Just think of it in terms of temperature. When he becomes abusive, he's getting heated. Well, don't follow him there; stay cool. In fact, the grittier things get, the cooler you should get, to the point of cold formality if necessary. Be ultra polite and correct at all times. Remember, you've done and are doing nothing wrong. You're playing everything by the book. He's the one at fault - whatever he says.

To that end, I would advise you not to miss the deadline on this last job but to simply deliver it with a bland "here is your work and here is the invoice" note. I don't see any advantages to "ending the relationship" formally at that point. He may well come back immediately with trumped-up claims of poor quality. I would personally advise you to say that you can't accept any more work for ... (maybe one or two weeks). You don't need to give a reason. After that period you can just be too busy with other clients or whatever. Once you get to the invoice's due date (which I do hope isn't 90 days in the future), he'll legally be in breach of contract (yes, you DO have one). At that point, if he hasn't already complained about poor quality then nobody will believe him. You can then escalate payment collection in the knowledge that you have every right to every penny/cent. If you take him to court (hopefully it won't come to that but it's cheap and easy if you're both within the EU) they will very definitely find in your favour.
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Markus Nystrom
Markus Nystrom  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:53
Swedish to English
+ ...
Sociopath Nov 30, 2015

Your client has all the hallmarks of a sociopath and deserves to be shunned. You might consider publicizing his behavior somehow. While he may be proud of that behavior in his solipsist moral universe, others unaffected by the taint of sociopathy will take heed and be spared your experience. There is no reason for you to submit to his BS--it's all an illusion. Practically speaking, I do not think he deserves the courtesy of any notice whatsoever, apart from a collection notice.

 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:53
Member
English to French
More generally Nov 30, 2015

Do you have what it takes to be self-employed?
When you're self-employed, nobody tells you what is wrong, right, standard procedure, common practice and what-not. You only have your own judgment (backed by your upbringing, academic background, life experience and financial situation) to decide how far can too far go.
For instance, if only for self-preservation purposes, never accept customer demands without weighing your own interest, because what a customer deems appropriate in a b
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Do you have what it takes to be self-employed?
When you're self-employed, nobody tells you what is wrong, right, standard procedure, common practice and what-not. You only have your own judgment (backed by your upbringing, academic background, life experience and financial situation) to decide how far can too far go.
For instance, if only for self-preservation purposes, never accept customer demands without weighing your own interest, because what a customer deems appropriate in a business relationship is necessarily biased by the very nature of the relationship.

Not only are we not employees, but also not mothers of our customers. I certainly understand how puzzling and nightmarish the situation is, but it takes two to tango.
Choe Vaughn wrote:
The whole thing is just puzzling to me because the outsourcer does not seem to be someone with little experience who is simply looking to make money off of translators. I believe he has been in the business for many years, and has a large and prestigious end client.

This is irrelevant. Every agency has their own "prestigious end clients", and there is nothing to be amazed at. And good salesmen don't necessarily make good people. From the portrait you made of this customer, I'd be more inclined to rate him as a moron who may have some of the personality traits of those who beat their partners.
Choe Vaughn wrote:
...I will make clear is the last one I will accept...

Definitely. Think about how you want to spend Christmas and the New year. And don't forget you have all rights to get paid for your work.

I hope this bad experience will help you thicken your skin going forward!

Philippe
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Ilan Rubin (X)
Ilan Rubin (X)  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 00:53
Russian to English
So what happened? Dec 5, 2015

Chloe Vaughn wrote:

There was never any written agreement to accept all this work. I have one project outstanding which is due tomorrow, which I will make clear is the last one I will accept.


How did it end?


 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 21:53
Dutch to English
+ ...
Variation on stalking Dec 5, 2015

This person is basically stalking you! I have had a couple of weird experiences, nothing like this, but they did involve people ringing up and emotional manipulation. Sociopaths, lonely bored narcissists, who knows their problems,but you have to cut ties.

So, as others have said,cut your losses,put it down to experience, and better luck in the future!


 
Christel Zipfel
Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:53
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
I would be very interested, too! Dec 5, 2015

I find this was a really intriguing thread which took an unexpected turn at the end (but we don't know the very issue yet which would be most interesting to be known). I think the whole discussion could be very helpful for other translators who happen to be in a similar situation - there was a lot of mostly quite good advice in my opinion.

 
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