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My diversified client portfolio dried up!
Thread poster: Tom in London
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
No idea Feb 12, 2016

I have no idea what a "discounted segment" is but this sounds like an awful way of working.

 
Andrea Garfield-Barkworth
Andrea Garfield-Barkworth  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:35
Member (2015)
German to English
Yes, Feb 12, 2016

sometimes it pays to be ignorant of such things.

 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:35
Danish to English
+ ...
Discounted segments Feb 12, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

I have no idea what a "discounted segment" is but this sounds like an awful way of working.


It can be 100 % matches from a translation memory or repetitions of sentences (segments) already translated in the same text, in which case there is very little to do, as the CAT tool will automatically suggest it, so one can quickly glance at it and decide if it's ok or not.

Or it can be part matches where most of the sentence is the same but not completely. The CAT tool will show where the differences are. Sometimes it can be quickly done, but if there are too many differences, it's sometimes quicker just to translate it from scratch.

As it is presumed that such segments/sentences can be done faster, they are paid less. I don't always agree with how discounted they are, but on the other hand, I need to make a living in the real world, so I simply adapt and cut down on the time I spend on such sentences so I don't lose out. If they were badly translated and are poorly paid, then so be it; that's the client's choice, not mine. If you ask a plumber to fit an old tap during renovation, he will protest, but if you are unwilling to pay for a new tap, he can either fit the old tap or refuse to do the job, in which case some other plumber will do it while still earning good money as a whole. If the old taps stops working two months later, then there is still the possibility of earning more by coming back and changing it.

Yes, it can be frustrating sometimes, but I cannot change how agencies do things, so unless I have clients waiting to pay more, I consider that compromising is better than earning nothing.


 
Laureana Pavon
Laureana Pavon  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 10:35
Member (2007)
English to Spanish
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MODERATOR
Different attitude Feb 12, 2016

Tom in London wrote:
I simply DO NOT WANT to do the kind of translating work that can be done with CAT tools. Those are boring, uninteresting, repetitive, mechanical documents. I'd rather watch paint dry than spend my life doing that type of translation. I'm not so desperate for work that I'd be willing to invest time and money in CAT tools, to make my life boring ! Sometimes I do accept those jobs when they come from regular clients, but they're never welcome and I hate doing them.


I must say that I specialize in several of the types of projects you mentioned (I'm a civil engineer). I work almost entirely for end clients who don't even know what a CAT is.

For the life of me, I don't understand how a CAT wouldn't be helpful.


 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
It's the industry Feb 12, 2016

Tom in London wrote:
- academic papers on matters relating to urban and territorial planning
- construction and plant analytical reports on the condition of existing buildings/the advisability of purchasing them etc.
- building test reports
- specialist architecture/product design/interiors magazine articles written in a creative style and aimed at an upmarket readership

So basically you're massively dependent on and exposed to investment in commercial and to a lesser extent individual real estate?

When the business world starts worrying about the future, they'll start reducing their investments, postponing or cancelling new building work and putting refurbishment of existing stock on hold. (Falling business confidence has a knock-on effect on private expenditure too, of course.) When everybody is bullish, there are many new developments, cranes spring up on the skyline and there's a flood of work for associated support industries.

You're basically working in a sector that is highly sensitive to the business cycle. Given that global business confidence has been ebbing steadily since the summer of last year, I would be surprised if it had not had an effect on the flow of work to you.

In addition, as others have mentioned, sometimes coincidences just stack up.

Regards
Dan


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:35
Member (2007)
English
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Diversification has to go hand in hand with specialisation, even if that sounds impossible Feb 12, 2016

EvaVer wrote:
If I only had 7 clients and all of them agencies, I would be very nervous indeed!

Certainly having both agencies and direct clients is a good mix. Maybe you could do more to attract direct clients, Tom?.

The other thing I've done is actively try to find clients from all around the world. My 20 clients last year were based in at least 15 different countries over several continents. Mind you, I do quite a lot of monolingual English work, which makes that more viable, but I do translate for companies in countries where neither English nor French is the official language. Do you concentrate on countries where they speak Italian or English, or everywhere, Tom? There seems to be money to spend in some rather unlikely areas of the world, and agencies get set up just about anywhere.

And how about monolingual English work? There must be plenty of architects out there who "can English" enough to write their own stuff but needing help with polishing. I know you're a bit of a stickler for grammar and spelling.

What I won't do is offer to translate any and every text from French. There are texts that I really don't understand the meaning of in English, so how could I hope to translate them from French? I understand all the words of course, but I don't translate words - I transfer the meaning from French to English, and British English at that, not American English. I know there are texts you won't touch either for one reason or another, Tom. That's specialisation.

But have you ever thought about diversifying into teaching? Teaching architectural studies or architectural appreciation in English and/or Italian? Terms and techniques specific to translations in that sector?


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Dan Feb 12, 2016

Yes Dan- thanks for your thoughtful comments. I know about the construction sector - it's one of the key components of the economy of any country and as such, tends to react to ups and downs.

The Italian construction sector is very interesting; it ranges from small-scale home conversions to major international rail projects (unlike the Brits, the Italians have been very intelligent about not breaking up their infrastructure design skills and now sell entire systems worldwide).
... See more
Yes Dan- thanks for your thoughtful comments. I know about the construction sector - it's one of the key components of the economy of any country and as such, tends to react to ups and downs.

The Italian construction sector is very interesting; it ranges from small-scale home conversions to major international rail projects (unlike the Brits, the Italians have been very intelligent about not breaking up their infrastructure design skills and now sell entire systems worldwide).

I'm not saying I'lm suffering from a lack of work at the moment. I'm just saying that some of my former quite regular clients seem to have (momentarily) disappeared but as Sheila and others have said, and as you confirm, the construction sector is cyclical.

I like to focus on translating the kind of material that tangibly supports Italian business and industry. I believe in Italy, its creativity, and its ability to get things done - in an Italian way. I know Italy well and I like the way Italians do things. So most of the time, the translations on which I'm working really engage my interest, stimulate me to investigate things I didn't know about, and generally enrich me.

I'm already working on diversifying anew. I just wanted to know if others had ever had a similar experience.
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Direct clients Feb 12, 2016

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Maybe you could do more to attract direct clients, Tom?.


As a former academic myself (besides being an architect) I do occasionally get inquiries directly from other academics - I have translated quite a few books. I used to have one good direct client (a publisher) and did about 4 architecture books for him and got to know him quite well. Unfortunately as he explained, the world of publishing is a shark-infested sea and it's very difficult to get funding for architecture books. But I haven't given up.


 
Denise Phelps
Denise Phelps  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
Yes Feb 12, 2016

In answer to Tom's original question, yes, this happened to me last year. I had 5 regular clients who kept me rushed off my feet with work so no point in diversifying as I had no time to take on extra work. Then, in a matter of weeks, my 3 best clients in terms of volume and rates all underwent structural reorganisation and in each case my contact person (the head of service) left. My inbox went very quiet. I used the time to approach potential new clients, replaced the old ones...and then the o... See more
In answer to Tom's original question, yes, this happened to me last year. I had 5 regular clients who kept me rushed off my feet with work so no point in diversifying as I had no time to take on extra work. Then, in a matter of weeks, my 3 best clients in terms of volume and rates all underwent structural reorganisation and in each case my contact person (the head of service) left. My inbox went very quiet. I used the time to approach potential new clients, replaced the old ones...and then the old ones came back. So actually, I could have spent the time gardening and walking the dog, but I'm glad I didn't wait for them. I'm in a much stronger position now as regards increasing rates, for example, or turning down jobs that don't appeal.

You didn't ask for advice, but I think it's thoughtful to contact a client who's dropped off the radar, not to ask about work but just to check they're ok. Sometimes they aren't. It's also good to have the equivalent of 6 months' earnings or more tucked away so you can focus on finding new clients instead of worrying about where your next meal is coming from.

And for the record, in almost 10 years as a full time translator, only one - so far one-off - client has ever required me to have a CAT tool, but I have one anyway because it makes my life easier. I very rarely get repeated chunks of text, but the concordance search and my glossary showing me instantly how I translated a difficult term or phrase in the past are worth their weight in gold.
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Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
He who would be lead, let him be a bridge Feb 12, 2016

Tom in London wrote:
I'm not saying I'm suffering from a lack of work at the moment. I'm just saying that some of my former quite regular clients seem to have (momentarily) disappeared but as Sheila and others have said, and as you confirm, the construction sector is cyclical.

My apologies, I didn't mean to imply that you were facing destitution! And you have far greater knowledge not only of architecture but also, I'm sure, its moustached handmaiden construction.

Like you, I would like to believe that what I do makes a tangible contribution (however small) to my adopted country, in your case Italy, in my case Japan. I have often thought that both are almost wilfully misunderstood by other countries.

After all, to act as a bridge between two cultures and languages is no mean thing. "A fo ben, bid bont" as the Welsh say.

Regards
Dan


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:35
French to English
about CATs Feb 13, 2016

So I have very much the same stance as Tom regarding CAT tools. Difference being that I do have experience with them.

I work mainly with the kind of material where you never get a 100% match for sentences with more than two words. Fashion, art, music etc., where each new text has to herald something new and exciting. You can't make people want to check something new and exciting out using last year's copy.

The agency I was working at before decided to try CAT tools. Or
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So I have very much the same stance as Tom regarding CAT tools. Difference being that I do have experience with them.

I work mainly with the kind of material where you never get a 100% match for sentences with more than two words. Fashion, art, music etc., where each new text has to herald something new and exciting. You can't make people want to check something new and exciting out using last year's copy.

The agency I was working at before decided to try CAT tools. Originally it was only going to be for the deathly repetitive files they were designed to handle. Then we got bought out by another agency where CAT tools were used for any text with more than 200 words.

The PM would send me the file in the CAT format ready for translation and all I had to do was concentrate on translating. After a while I got the hang of using the TM or TB to find terms that had cropped up previously. I'll admit that Google Desktop's sudden death played a part in prompting me to make more intensive use of these features.

However, in my subsequent experience as a freelancer I see that converting the client's PDF or Excel spreadsheet into the CAT format (and back again) is mostly harder than copying the text into Word. Quite frankly more trouble than it's worth. And the interface is rarely as intuitive as Word, doesn't capitalise letters at the start of the sentence, doesn't correct silly typos, doesn't manage spacing automatically when copying and pasting bits and bobs. And of course having the text split into convenient CAT-sized bites doesn't help when you feel that the best way to approach the subject would be to start at the end and finish in the middle without forgetting the intro (that's one of my favourite tricks in translation).

The only argument that holds water is that CAT tools help to achieve consistent terminology. Putting new terms into a Word-based glossary for that client/subject is no harder than putting them into the TM or TB. Before ever using a CAT tool I had got into the habit of putting any tricky term into the glossary even before deciding how to translate them, and I would put the job number in place of the translated term in case I forgot to update the glossary once I had finished the translation. And I have found an app that seems to perform the same task as Google Desktop, althougth I'm not convinced it works as well.

One problem with TMs and TBs is deciding whether to have single or multiple translations possible. When it's single, you run into problems with terms that have more than one meaning. When it's multiple, you get similarly multiple problems including TMI. I just add a line where necessary in my glossary.

So all in all, if Tom doesn't feel like using a CAT tool I'm pretty sure he has similar strategies for being able to find terms he has already translated to achieve consistency, so I'm sure he can deliver decent stuff without all the hassle CAT tools entail.
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Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:35
French to English
you don't want to know Feb 13, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

I have no idea what a "discounted segment" is but this sounds like an awful way of working.


Believe me Tom, you don't want to know!


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
In the middle Feb 13, 2016

Texte Style wrote:

......when you feel that the best way to approach the subject would be to start at the end and finish in the middle without forgetting the intro (that's one of my favourite tricks in translation).


Me too. I have various ways of approaching this. One is to begin by identifying a few
particularly problematic terms specific to that document (e.g. "videosorveglianza") and find/replace them throughout the whole text, using Word and setting it to change the colour of the translated term from black to grey.

This enables me to work all the way through the document from beginning to end to get an overall feel of it, and to spot any problematic bits.

Alternatively, depending on my mood, I might go through the whole document and translate phrases, or short bits of text, right to the end, and then go back and fill in the rest.

Everything already translated becomes grey text instead of black text. That enables me to see at a glance how far I've got and how much is still left to do. Of course, at the end I change it all back to black text again.

Either way, I have an overall grasp of the tone and intent of the document I'm translating, have a fair idea of where the problematic parts are, and how long the job is likely to take.

I can't imagine just beginning at the beginning and plodding through to the end. That's no way to translate a document that's consistent and flows ! And it sounds B O R I N G !

PS Thomas has explained what a discounted segment is. Dreadful.

My one complaint is that Word is unreliable. It is liable to suddenly crash, without saving. So it's important to be assiduous about saving manually, often.

[Edited at 2016-02-13 09:09 GMT]


 
Charlie Bavington
Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:35
French to English
Not really about portfolios, but anyway :) Feb 13, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

I can't imagine just beginning at the beginning and plodding through to the end. That's no way to translate a document that's consistent and flows ! And it sounds B O R I N G !



You are in absolutely no way required to simply start at the beginning and go through to the end without deviation (repetition or hesitation being entirely your own affair) with any CAT tool I know about. I regularly translate introductions last, once I know what the text is about and the terms I've decided upon.

Just last night I jumped around all over the place in memoQ doing what I could describe as "the easy bits". The same would have been possible in Wordfast.

Your search & replace function as described can be replicated (arguably bettered) by using glossaries/term bases (the jargon varies with the tool).

memoQ, for one, gives you an array of stats on progress, including a % complete on permanent display, to save you whizzing up and down scanning the proportion of grey text. (You can also easily see how you're progressing in Wordfast although it takes a few seconds longer.)

Lastly, harking back to earlier comments and a common misconception - the consistency which CAT tools are sometimes praised (or not!) for enabling works both ways. You can use a CAT tool to avoid using the same phrasing twice, if your creativity or client brief so requires (do a concordance search, and see what you've used before, and don't use those words again - easy). A CAT tool can help you be super-consistent, or to never use the same word twice; it's entirely your choice.

In short, almost none of the reasons you or anyone else ever gives for not using CAT tools ever stand up to close scrutiny. They are always based on misconceptions (like your misconception that CAT tools impose a strictly linear process). I'll admit they add a layer of technical complexity (possibly more so for Mac users), and when I first joined this very website, the number of people complaining about Trados put me right off CAT for years. That is arguably a reason to avoid them, for the less technically confident. When they go awry, it can be an issue.

But consider this. There are vast number of people who argued they didn't need 'em, didn't like 'em, their work wasn't suited to 'em (the wrongest fallacy of the lot, frankly!) but then, one day, went ahead and got one and have never looked back; some are almost evangelical about it. There is almost no-one who has learned how to use a CAT tool properly and then decided to drop the idea and go back to some manual overtype-the-original method.


 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 13:35
Danish to English
+ ...
A word about Word Feb 13, 2016

Tom in London wrote:

My one complaint is that Word is unreliable. It is liable to suddenly crash, without saving. So it's important to be assiduous about saving manually, often.


I've never used Word under OS X, but what I have experienced under Windows with Word 2010 is that autosave is not reliable with the older .doc format but only with the .docx format. You can still convert it back to the old .doc format if need be.

With .docx it autosaves once a minute, as I have configured it, and always recovers everything up to the last minute, typically when my PC freezes. My Word only rarely crashes; you have my word.

Maybe it's different on OS X. I have no idea.

Yes, the discounted segments can be dreadful, but until I can get jobs without them, I try to make the best out of a bad thing and not spend time on what they don't pay for. It would be even more dreadful not to have enough work. But if you manage to avoid them and still have enough work, it sounds great.

You can translate the sentences in the order you like in a CAT tool, just as you can in Word.


 
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