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"这一次大陆又输了"
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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
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All's well that ends well Oct 6, 2014

David,

I know you don't want to continue to debate this issue; neither do I. But IMO to elevate the discussion of the merits of an Apple ad - whether the original English one or the Chinese translation - to the level of advertising theories is a bit of a stretch. IMO, if we don't get into the nitty-gritty analysis of the details, or substantiate theories with concrete examples of how certain places of the ad were handled to perfection, it's very hard to convince anyone in a debate
... See more
David,

I know you don't want to continue to debate this issue; neither do I. But IMO to elevate the discussion of the merits of an Apple ad - whether the original English one or the Chinese translation - to the level of advertising theories is a bit of a stretch. IMO, if we don't get into the nitty-gritty analysis of the details, or substantiate theories with concrete examples of how certain places of the ad were handled to perfection, it's very hard to convince anyone in a debate that the translation in question had excelled.

Although I would go as far as to say that it's helpful to think outside the box in advertising.

That said, I trust that you are expert in both theory and practice of advertising. I myself plan on sending for a copy of David Ogilvy's "Confessions of An Advertising Man". Not that I want to get into the advertising business, but I figured it might be an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Advertising-Man-David-Ogilvy/dp/B0006AYT2Y/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=
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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
Some quotes from the "King of Madison Avenue" Oct 6, 2014

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/david_ogilvy.html

 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
几点感想 Oct 7, 2014

David Lin wrote:

ysun wrote: “画龙点睛” vs. “画蛇添足”

“画龙点睛”与“画蛇添足”正好是反义词。我早就用“画蛇添足”很含蓄地指出了这一点,但没好意思直说。如果一则广告中本来应该用“画龙点睛”的地方却用了“画蛇添足”,不知广告理论是否允许?也不知客户老板和消费大众看了会怎样想?


谢谢你们两位虚心的提问。你们的好学不倦、寻根究底的态度,我深深被感动。其实如果你们有仔细阅读,许多答案都可以在其他同仁的帖文中轻易找到,不一定要看我的帖文,虽然我要讲的话老早已经讲完了。 还有,我感到自己的帖文,有时候可能写的太艰深,虽然有部分同仁会很快认同,但是可能有少数同仁会一时不容易明白,因而引起属于基本认知的问题以及无谓的联想和误解。所以,恕我不能在此一一回应或作答。

如有足够兴趣想了解更多广告理论 theories 及相关行业的经验法则 Rules of Thumb (两者不一样),可能 ProZ.com 须考虑再开办与此题目有关的培训课程,帮助同仁们增进对这行业和翻译业的了解。

执笔至此,也是自己对此贴题的最后一道帖文。谢谢各位热情参与和不乏幽默感的轻松分享。

David,

谢谢你的答复。不过我认为, 在参加讨论时,任何人都应把自己放在恰当位置,切忌以权威身分自居。否则,万一自己在“基本认知”层次上犯一些错误,将处于十分尴尬的境地。我认为,你的帖文得不到理解,问题并不在于你的帖文“写的太艰深”,也不在于其他同仁的“基本认知”,而在于你在谈论某些广告理论和经验法则时,脱离了所讨论的具体问题。所谓 sequential stages 就是一例。其次,我们别以为懂了些广告理论和经验法则就万事大吉,关键还在于要懂得如何妥善地付诸实施。否则,就无异于纸上谈兵。例如,如何正确地运用老百姓耳熟能详的“画龙点睛” 、“爱不释手”之类的成语,就很重要。

我们在讨论中,切忌让有色眼镜蒙蔽自己的眼睛。如果出于某种偏见,对译文中某些显而易见的错误、硬伤却还要竭力辩护,那就不是应有的态度。我们不要把自己降到《这一次大陆又输了》该文作者的水准。这种人,等到将来 iPhone 7、8 问世时,照样还会说“这一次大陆又输了”。如果抱着客观的态度,我们就会看到,在两岸三地的译文中(岂止于标题),都存在不少问题。当然,iPhone 广告中存在些问题也没什么大不了,关键在于产品得过硬,因为“皇帝的女儿不愁嫁”。

为了提高效率,我在讨论问题时喜欢直来直去,而不喜欢“弯弯绕”、“打太极拳”。在以往的讨论中,如果我的发言有所不妥,令你感到难堪,望能谅解。谢谢!

[Edited at 2014-10-07 14:00 GMT]


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
一本好书 Oct 11, 2014

wherestip wrote:

That said, I trust that you are expert in both theory and practice of advertising. I myself plan on sending for a copy of David Ogilvy's "Confessions of An Advertising Man". Not that I want to get into the advertising business, but I figured it might be an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Advertising-Man-David-Ogilvy/dp/B0006AYT2Y/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=&qid=



我也打算买一本看看。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
An advertising genius of his time Oct 11, 2014

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403978956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

J.H.,

This might be an interesting read too. Anyway, I've placed an order for both books this morning.



http://adage.com/article/ad-and-marketing-book-reviews/ken-roman-s-king-madison-avenue-david-ogilvy/134734/

Holding Court With the 'King of Madison Avenue'
Former Ogilvy Chairman Ken Roman Looks Back on the Life, Times and Legend of David Ogilvy



 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
"不断超越的时尚" Oct 11, 2014




http://adage.com/article/media/apple-watch-makes-fashion-magazine-debut-vogue-china/295365/

Apple Watch Makes Its Fashion Magazine Debut -- In China
Supermodel Liu Wen Sports Luxury Model of the Device



Hmm, not to revive this discussion, but I remember suggesting "超越更大" at one point. ...


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
刘雯 Oct 11, 2014

Chinese Supermodel Makes History

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/international/2014/09/25/spc-fashion-season-liu-wen.cnn.html


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
谢谢 Steve 的推荐 Oct 12, 2014

wherestip wrote:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403978956/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

J.H.,

This might be an interesting read too. Anyway, I've placed an order for both books this morning.



http://adage.com/article/ad-and-marketing-book-reviews/ken-roman-s-king-madison-avenue-david-ogilvy/134734/

Holding Court With the 'King of Madison Avenue'
Former Ogilvy Chairman Ken Roman Looks Back on the Life, Times and Legend of David Ogilvy



我打算先买一本看看再说。以后有空的话再买,因为广告理论目前还不是我的主攻方向。


 
ysun
ysun  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
广告资料的翻译 Oct 12, 2014

翻译广告资料时,译者的任务是翻译广告,而不是撰写广告。当然,懂一些广告理论和经验法则将有助于理解广告撰写者的意图,有助于理解原文,从而有助于翻译。但也别以为,懂一些广告理论和经验法则就万事大吉了。我们还应看到,许多类似于 iphone 6 的广告资料,其中还包含着大量的科技信息。翻译这类资料的翻译人员,还必须具备起码的科技知识。否则,也难以提供�... See more
翻译广告资料时,译者的任务是翻译广告,而不是撰写广告。当然,懂一些广告理论和经验法则将有助于理解广告撰写者的意图,有助于理解原文,从而有助于翻译。但也别以为,懂一些广告理论和经验法则就万事大吉了。我们还应看到,许多类似于 iphone 6 的广告资料,其中还包含着大量的科技信息。翻译这类资料的翻译人员,还必须具备起码的科技知识。否则,也难以提供高质量译文。前面讨论的 "power efficient" 就是一例。再举一个简单的例子,对于 “Great Battery life”,也有着五花八门的译法。

原文:Great battery life. Even while powering great new features.
http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/technology/

大陆:驱动众多出色新功能,电池表现还是那么出色。
http://www.apple.com/cn/iphone-6/technology/

香港:眾多新功能出色發揮,電池使用時間依然出色。
http://www.apple.com/hk/iphone-6/technology/

臺灣:讓眾多新功能出色發揮,電池依然長效。
http://www.apple.com/tw/iphone-6/technology/

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。
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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
Agree Oct 12, 2014

ysun wrote:

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。


Yueyin,

That's for sure. Anyone who works in the high-tech industry would intuitively understand that "battery life" refers to the timespan from the battery being fully charged (100%) down to it being fully depleted (0%).

Industry-specific knowledge is just as important as any other facet of translation if not even more.


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
I'm curious Oct 16, 2014

Why is it not okay to talk about how something was translated differently amongst different regions of China in this thread?

 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
同意 Oct 16, 2014

wherestip wrote:

ysun wrote:

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。


Yueyin,

That's for sure. Anyone who works in the high-tech industry would intuitively understand that "battery life" refers to the timespan from the battery being fully charged (100%) down to it being fully depleted (0%).

Industry-specific knowledge is just as important as any other facet of translation if not even more.



Battery life 和 Battery lifespan 是同义词,都可以翻译成“电池寿命”。“电池使用时间” 的确不够准确。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
Battery life vs. Battery lifespan Oct 16, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

ysun wrote:

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。


Yueyin,

That's for sure. Anyone who works in the high-tech industry would intuitively understand that "battery life" refers to the timespan from the battery being fully charged (100%) down to it being fully depleted (0%).

Industry-specific knowledge is just as important as any other facet of translation if not even more.



Battery life 和 Battery lifespan 是同义词,都可以翻译成“电池寿命”。“电池使用时间” 的确不够准确。


J.H.,

I'm sorry. I think you may have misunderstood Yueyin's argument in its entirety.

Simply stated, "battery life" refers to the time duration of usage between charges; for example, it could be 8 hours, 9 hours, ... 12 hours ..., etc.. Whereas "battery life span" refers to the time between a new battery is put into use until it is worn out completely (e.g., it no longer keeps a charge) and needs to be replaced.

Anyway, IMO, Yueyin was right in saying there were some problems in all three translations of "battery life" in the sub-heading, although some may argue that the substandard term they used was "约定俗成“.


 
Jinhang Wang
Jinhang Wang  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 21:33
English to Chinese
+ ...
哦,没有考虑到是指可充电电池 Oct 16, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

ysun wrote:

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。


Yueyin,

That's for sure. Anyone who works in the high-tech industry would intuitively understand that "battery life" refers to the timespan from the battery being fully charged (100%) down to it being fully depleted (0%).

Industry-specific knowledge is just as important as any other facet of translation if not even more.



Battery life 和 Battery lifespan 是同义词,都可以翻译成“电池寿命”。“电池使用时间” 的确不够准确。


J.H.,

I'm sorry. I think you may have misunderstood Yueyin's argument in its entirety.

Simply stated, "battery life" refers to the time duration of usage between charges; for example, it could be 8 hours, 9 hours, ... 12 hours ..., etc.. Whereas "battery life span" refers to the time between a new battery is put into use until it is worn out completely (e.g., it no longer keeps a charge) and needs to be replaced.

Anyway, IMO, Yueyin was right in saying there were some problems in all three translations of "battery life" in the sub-heading, although some may argue that the substandard term they used was "约定俗成“.


其实,对于一次性电池,两者的意思是完全一样的。呵呵。


 
wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
Chinese to English
+ ...
rechargeable batteries Oct 16, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

wherestip wrote:

ysun wrote:

我们不妨先来看看 “Battery life” 的定义:
https://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/
“Battery life” is the amount of time your device runs before it needs to be recharged. “Battery lifespan” is the amount of time your battery lasts until it needs to be replaced.

可见,“Battery life” 实际上是指“电池使用周期”,“Battery lifespan” 是指“电池使用寿命”。“电池使用时间”是个含糊的概念。“电池使用周期”才是个明确的概念。而且,“Battery life”是个“长”或“短”的概念,不该用“出色”或“逊色”来形容。否则,就不合乎逻辑。我们可以说,“这段時間他表现很出色”,但不能说,“这段時間很出色”。象“電池使用時間依然出色”这种译文,如果不看原文还真难以确定它是什么意思。许多类似的不伦不类的译文,就是这样逐渐成为“约定俗成”,最后又成了“经典误译”。


Yueyin,

That's for sure. Anyone who works in the high-tech industry would intuitively understand that "battery life" refers to the timespan from the battery being fully charged (100%) down to it being fully depleted (0%).

Industry-specific knowledge is just as important as any other facet of translation if not even more.



Battery life 和 Battery lifespan 是同义词,都可以翻译成“电池寿命”。“电池使用时间” 的确不够准确。


J.H.,

I'm sorry. I think you may have misunderstood Yueyin's argument in its entirety.

Simply stated, "battery life" refers to the time duration of usage between charges; for example, it could be 8 hours, 9 hours, ... 12 hours ..., etc.. Whereas "battery life span" refers to the time between a new battery is put into use until it is worn out completely (e.g., it no longer keeps a charge) and needs to be replaced.

Anyway, IMO, Yueyin was right in saying there were some problems in all three translations of "battery life" in the sub-heading, although some may argue that the substandard term they used was "约定俗成“.


其实,对于一次性电池,两者的意思是完全一样的。呵呵。


Of course. For non-rechargeable batteries the two terms would be synonymous. But in this case we're talking about the difference of the two terms when used in the official advertisement of the iPhone 6.


[Edited at 2014-10-16 15:43 GMT]


 
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