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Deja vu X3 – bugs and areas to improve
Thread poster: Pavel Tsvetkov
Epameinondas Soufleros
Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 11:26
Member (2008)
English to Greek
+ ...
Some of those already exist Feb 19, 2015

Some of the functions mikhailo suggests already exist:

  • To go to the next empty segment, you press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down.

  • To go to the previous empty segment, you press Alt+Up.

  • To confirm and go to the next empty segment, you press Alt+Down or Alt+Enter.

  • To turn chapter numbers or anything else into a tag, so that you reduce false positives when checking if numbers have been translated correctly, you can u... See more
Some of the functions mikhailo suggests already exist:

  • To go to the next empty segment, you press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down.

  • To go to the previous empty segment, you press Alt+Up.

  • To confirm and go to the next empty segment, you press Alt+Down or Alt+Enter.

  • To turn chapter numbers or anything else into a tag, so that you reduce false positives when checking if numbers have been translated correctly, you can use RegEx when importing your file. This would work for chapter numbers from 1.1 to 99.99, for example: \d{1,2}\.\d{1,2}
    But this would also catch any decimal number with up to two integer digits and up to two decimal digits. So, it would be nice if we could select some text and hit a button to turn this particular piece of text into a tag—without having to re-import the document.



Note: As you can see, the keyboard shortcuts mentioned above are inconsistent. To make them consistent, they should be as follows:

  • Alt+Down to confirm and go to next empty.

  • Alt+Up to confirm and go to previous empty. (Why not be able to confirm and go upwards? There are use cases for this.)

  • Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Down to go to next empty.

  • Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Up to go to previous empty.



[Edited at 2015-02-19 10:10 GMT]
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mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Feb 19, 2015

Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:

Some of the functions mikhailo suggests already exist:

  • To go to the next empty segment, you press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down.

  • To go to the previous empty segment, you press Alt+Up.

  • To confirm and go to the next empty segment, you press Alt+Down or Alt+Enter.

  • To turn chapter numbers or anything else into a tag, so that you reduce false positives when checking if numbers have been translated correctly, you can use RegEx when importing your file. This would work for chapter numbers from 1.1 to 99.99, for example: \d{1,2}\.\d{1,2}
    But this would also catch any decimal number with up to two integer digits and up to two decimal digits. So, it would be nice if we could select some text and hit a button to turn this particular piece of text into a tag—without having to re-import the document.



Note: As you can see, the keyboard shortcuts mentioned above are inconsistent. To make them consistent, they should be as follows:

  • Alt+Down to confirm and go to next empty.

  • Alt+Up to confirm and go to previous empty. (Why not be able to confirm and go upwards? There are use cases for this.)

  • Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Down to go to next empty.

  • Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Up to go to previous empty.



[Edited at 2015-02-19 10:10 GMT]



I don't know how do You get «GO TO EMPTY!!!» with these HOTKEYS but instead I see only goto to next unpainted segment down and up.
So question remains

Thanks for Regex. But how can I turn small images (buttons from SW manuals) into placeables in TM?

Instead Press [IMG] to make ..... have Press [PLACEABLE] to make

so that DV determines this construction later

How can I turn quoted words to PLACEABLE.

Example
Press "Open" Button -> Premere pulsante "Open" (BUT in TM — Press [PLACEABLE] button)

so that further DV translated all such things

Press "Next" Button
Press "Back" button etc.

in the same way

FOR DV4 - IMPORT BACK PROOFED AND EDITED FILE AND ALIGN THEM WITH TRANSLATION - for those who prefers to proofread clean texts in Word/PDF.


 
Epameinondas Soufleros
Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 11:26
Member (2008)
English to Greek
+ ...
Clueless Feb 19, 2015

I don't understand almost anything in your posting (and have no idea why you SCREAM AT RANDOM points), so I can't really help you.

 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:26
Russian to English
Empty segments Feb 20, 2015

I think Mikhailo's point is that Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down takes you not to the next empty segment, but to the next unconfirmed one (and confirming a segment in this case includes dealing with any warnings).

 
mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Feb 21, 2015

Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:

I don't understand almost anything in your posting (and have no idea why you SCREAM AT RANDOM points), so I can't really help you.


1.
I've checked your hotkeys and I saw that

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Down = Goto next unpainted
Alt+Up = Goto previous unpainted

As I understand «unpainted» is not equal to «empty» (Atril think the same in DV filters).

2
when I check TM I don't want to see a lot of
Press Button A,B,C,D,E,F etc

but I want to get rather one construction

Press Button [pleaceable]

3.
Another things may be useful as checkboxes

100% match with difference in capitalizing =>Yes and YES = 100% match
100% match with difference in tagging => Press {1}Enter{2} and Press Enter and even Press E{1}nter = 100% match

4.
For DV4
I know russian Promt made expensive MT-module for DV. May be it's time to think about integration with Dictionary. DV interface has a lot of space to build in dic window. (to prevent switching or usage of programs like Pin)

5.
In DV3 similar segments are shown and numbered from shortest.

Example
For sentence «Press the button «Next» to continue»
we see
1 Press —
2 Press — with another thanslation
3 button —
4 Press the button —
........
24 Press «Next» to continue
25 Press th button «Yes» to continue

so we need to enter CTRL+2+5 to put last sentence in tranlation

Is there any way to change it to reversal order, so that the first was the longest sentence above acceptable match limit

for example above so that we get

1. Press the button «Yes» to continue
2. Press «Next» to continue
.....
25 Press —


 
NatM
NatM
Germany
Local time: 10:26
English to German
+ ...
trouble with PowerPoint and sheet protection Mar 5, 2015

Having worked with DVX3 for a couple of weeks now, there are two things that trouble me and I would like to know if others have made similar experience.

1) Projects with Power Point files often crash unexpectedly. In one case, no export was possible at all.

2) Some Office documents suddenly had a sheet protection after the export, whereas the source files didn't have such protection. I was unable to remove the protection and had to copy the contents into an empty docume
... See more
Having worked with DVX3 for a couple of weeks now, there are two things that trouble me and I would like to know if others have made similar experience.

1) Projects with Power Point files often crash unexpectedly. In one case, no export was possible at all.

2) Some Office documents suddenly had a sheet protection after the export, whereas the source files didn't have such protection. I was unable to remove the protection and had to copy the contents into an empty document (luckily, this did the trick).

Has anyone made similar experiences or are these bugs confined to my system?

Thanks!
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mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Mar 13, 2015

adding to p.3 above

100% match with difference only in non-alfabetic characters (spaces, punctuation marks etc.) => «Press Enter, and go away» and «Press Enter and go away» = 100% match, or
«Press "Enter"» and «Press ‘Enter’» and «Press “Enter”» and «Press Enter» = 100% match


 
mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Jun 4, 2015

Another one way of working with true PDF.

http://iceni.cachefly.net/infix/DemoMovies/Translation/Translation.htm

DVX do not work correctly with Infix XML.

And I want to see VERY MUCH a Transit project that DVX imports correctly.((

[Редактировал�
... See more
Another one way of working with true PDF.

http://iceni.cachefly.net/infix/DemoMovies/Translation/Translation.htm

DVX do not work correctly with Infix XML.

And I want to see VERY MUCH a Transit project that DVX imports correctly.((

[Редактировалось 2015-06-04 23:44 GMT]
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Atril_TEAM
Atril_TEAM
France
Local time: 10:26
InFix & Transit Jun 8, 2015

Hello,

You can work with Infix - you just have to create the appropriate XML filter.
A lot of our clients use that to translate PDF. Let us know if you need help with the filter creation.

You can also import Transit packages in PPX format. Currently, the references (which are language pairs, basically) are not imported but you can translate the package seamlessly. Again, if you encounter any issue doing that, please contact us and describe what the problem is, we'
... See more
Hello,

You can work with Infix - you just have to create the appropriate XML filter.
A lot of our clients use that to translate PDF. Let us know if you need help with the filter creation.

You can also import Transit packages in PPX format. Currently, the references (which are language pairs, basically) are not imported but you can translate the package seamlessly. Again, if you encounter any issue doing that, please contact us and describe what the problem is, we're here to help.

Kind regards,
Atril Team
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mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Jun 8, 2015

Atril Team wrote:
Hello,

You can work with Infix - you just have to create the appropriate XML filter.
A lot of our clients use that to translate PDF. Let us know if you need help with the filter creation.

You can also import Transit packages in PPX format. Currently, the references (which are language pairs, basically) are not imported but you can translate the package seamlessly. Again, if you encounter any issue doing that, please contact us and describe what the problem is, we're here to help.

Kind regards,
Atril Team


1. If a lot of clients use that — why can't You add this filter to DVX3 filter set. Despite it takes few minute to create very few peoples in LSP know about this feature.

2. I NEVER SEE TRANSIT PACKAGE where translation was not in ref files — always in ENG/DEU/RUS -extension files, that DVX3 can't export. MemoQ can do that more than two years already.

If You want help to Your users — make a work with Trados, Transit, MQ packages so flawless as in original software, without Invalid XML character ..... and other no-way-to-bypass-in-DV problems.

-----------------------------------------------------
Having translated DVX3 PRO manual in Russian (with parallel UI corrections) I want to add some notes:

1. Dumb «this is that» manual.
It's rather handbook, reference book, but not a manual with step-by-step teaching how to translate with DVX3 with further transition from simple things to advanced.
It is hard to use for newbies.
I recommend to think about changing its' structure or writing «DVX3 for Dummies» book.

Another recommendation - divide manual in parts, corresponding to expertize level and add a questions in the end of chapters.

2. more than 500 pages. Who will read them? Do You hate your potential customers?

3. Despite index is required by standards (f.e. ISO/IEC 82079-1-12), it is useless for e-document - anybody use search in Acrobat Reader, because it's quick and shows all occurrences.

4. Rare file formats can be moved into Advanced chapter. Few translators work with them.

5. Transit. See above.
When does Atril correct import of SDLXliff with bad entities, Transit XV/NTX project and lang files (.eng, .deu etc.)?

6. It's better rename Glossary to Terms and explanation (Terminology) and put in the beginning. Readers must understand terminology before they start reading.

7. Autocorrect and autotext do the same thing - replace one text with another. But it doesn't explained in text. Tricky things make an understanding difficult.

8. SGML stands for the Standardized General Markup Language. It is the result of generalizing and
then standardizing a number of Rich Text Formats (RTF) developed for word processing software
on personal computers by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) in 1986.

SGML from RTF?? Wiki tells another story

9. tag
When working with file types other than MS Office documents processed with the MS Office
(Live) filter, Déjà Vu X3 Professional only displays translatable text—everything else is hidden.
However, in 􀀩formats such as HTML, FrameMaker, or Word (if it’s not processed with the MS
Office (Live) filter), formatting information is often embedded within a 􀀩segment, such as a
particular word in bold, cursive, or small caps. Because Déjà Vu X3 Professional cannot
automatically decide which formatting belongs to which word, it lets the translator decide where
to place this formatting information. These are "tags." If you have created a Déjà Vu X3 Professional
project for HTML, for example, you will probably have noticed that many segments contain tags
such as {142} or {835}.

Text seems to be not cohesive. Does tag need explanation like that?

10. p.15
INLINE FORMATTING — better Visual formatting

11. p.30
FILE> """CLOSE"""
This command allows you to """open""" any kind of Déjà Vu X3 file (project, translation memory,
termbase, alignment file, XML filter). You can choose from a list of recently opened files or from
anywhere on your computer or network.

12. p.37
THE AUTOSEARCH WINDOW
A color signifies the origin of the term (by default: red=translation memory, blue=termbase, white=lexicon).
But what means Yellow on screenshot?

13. p.39
File> Options> General> Display portions from Translation Memory
But there is «SHOW portions from Translation Memory» on Screenshot

14. p.83
selecting the languages (up to 2 target languages),
AND 3 TARGET LANGUAGES ON SCREENSHOT Do not believe to own eyes.

15. p.96
The lexicon is a very useful tool, but as indicated in the light shading in the workflow chart on page
p. 75, it is an optional component.
BUT THERE IS NO ANY FLOWCHART ON P.75

16. p97-98
Unnecessary image duplicating

17. p. 104
1 Before you start to translate, select Tools> Options> General
FILE>OPTIONS......

18.
p.125
Ignore numerals—With this option, A 100 m dash would be a duplicate of A 50 m dash. ?????

19.
p.223
AUTOCORRECT
To manually add new """AutoCorrect""" entries
1 Highlight the term that you would like to add as an """AutoText""" entry.
2 Right-click on the selection and select Add Selection to """AutoText"""

20.
p.349
No IDML string in UI Resources

21.
p. 424
You can sort the order of use of the translation memories with the up and down arrows or the
right side of the field where the translation memories are listed. If you have selected..........?????

22. No example of usage. For example, Lexicon can be used to add non translatable terms. (Good idea to add lexicon of Trade Names, Trademarks etc in DVX3).
Good example - usage of lexicon for translation of Software manuals. Copy Resources to Lexicon and translate/leave/add translation and than use for translation of manual.

23. No alignment to other TM tools (p.e. - Populate (DVX3) = Copy Source to Target (Trados)).

24. With translation technology it is better to link to new ISO 17100-2015 standard.




[Редактировалось 2015-06-08 19:16 GMT]


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 12:26
English to Turkish
+ ...
infix filter Jun 9, 2015

mikhailo wrote:

1. If a lot of clients use that — why can't You add this filter to DVX3 filter set. Despite it takes few minute to create very few peoples in LSP know about this feature.




AFAIK the infix filter (created by Atril) is located at C:\Program Files\Iceni\Infix6\Translation support\DejaVu

This filter file is included in the installer of Infix.

Selcuk


 
Atril_TEAM
Atril_TEAM
France
Local time: 10:26
Re Jun 10, 2015

Hello mikhailo,

I will try to answer all your questions/comments.

1. If a lot of clients use that — why can't You add this filter to DVX3 filter set. Despite it takes few minute to create very few peoples in LSP know about this feature.

As Selcuk mentioned, the filter is available once InFix is installed. I remember some cases where the filter would benefit from some tweaking: that is why I was offering to help you with that if ne
... See more
Hello mikhailo,

I will try to answer all your questions/comments.

1. If a lot of clients use that — why can't You add this filter to DVX3 filter set. Despite it takes few minute to create very few peoples in LSP know about this feature.

As Selcuk mentioned, the filter is available once InFix is installed. I remember some cases where the filter would benefit from some tweaking: that is why I was offering to help you with that if necessary. We have the filter ready for anyone asking for it.
Still, adding it to our default filter list is a good idea as well. We will consider it.

2. I NEVER SEE TRANSIT PACKAGE where translation was not in ref files — always in ENG/DEU/RUS -extension files, that DVX3 can't export. MemoQ can do that more than two years already.

One can import, translate, and deliver a Transit package using Déjà Vu. It is true that as of today, references won’t be imported. This is on our roadmap.

If You want help to Your users — make a work with Trados, Transit, MQ packages so flawless as in original software, without Invalid XML character ..... and other no-way-to-bypass-in-DV problems.

That’s actually the other way around. We see a lot of illegal XML entities in XLIFF produced by other tool. Right now, Déjà Vu won’t import XLIFF with illegal XML entities because it is simply not supposed to do so. The idea behind XML is that it is supposed to make programs simple, efficient and reliable. One of the ways to do that is to force everyone to stick to the rules. If an XML file breaks the rules in some way (e.g. by having illegal entities in it) it should be rejected, because it can have disastreous consequences on the end user application (like a software, a website, etc.)
On another hand, practical reasons command us to import those – which we will implement – even though that’s not the right thing to do from a strictly technical point of view. Déjà Vu is one of the most compatible tool out there. Again, if you encounter any issue (or is DVX3 produces an XLIFF file with illegal character): write to support and we will fix that for you. That would also help us improving the compatibility.

Having translated DVX3 PRO manual in Russian (with parallel UI corrections) I want to add some notes:
1. Dumb «this is that» manual.
It's rather handbook, reference book, but not a manual with step-by-step teaching how to translate with DVX3 with further transition from simple things to advanced. It is hard to use for newbies. I recommend to think about changing its' structure or writing «DVX3 for Dummies» book.
Another recommendation - divide manual in parts, corresponding to expertize level and add a questions in the end of chapters.

Thank you for this very constructive remark.
The manual is actually divided into consistent parts, as you can see below:

DVX3_PRo

The manual is not a training program, nor a “DVX3 for dummies” book: it is supposed to bring any necessary information to Déjà Vu Users.
For step-by-step teaching, please have a look at the following, amongst many other things:

    Using Déjà Vu X3: A tutorial

    Training for new DVX3 users


2. more than 500 pages. Who will read them? Do You hate your potential customers?

Again, the aim of the manual is to offer all the necessary resources in the same file. It is not necessary to read it as a whole at once. Features are indexed, on page 10 you will find very useful pointers on how to optimize your experience with the guide. I don’t think I’m supposed to answer the second part of your question.

3. Despite index is required by standards (f.e. ISO/IEC 82079-1-12), it is useless for e-document - anybody use search in Acrobat Reader, because it's quick and shows all occurrences.

This is not an e-document. It is available online, yes. But download it and you will benefit for the dynamic research which most of our users use to find relevant information. I find the index necessary in acrobat - it is actually used very often because it's dynamic: if one clicks on the reference, one will be taken to the right page instantly. I would tend to think that this is helpful, especially on large files.

9. tag
When working with file types other than MS Office documents (...)If you have created a Déjà Vu X3 Professional
project for HTML, for example, you will probably have noticed that many segments contain tags such as {142} or {835}.
Text seems to be not cohesive. Does tag need explanation like that?


It does. Questions about tags are frequent which also originated this helpful article:
How to handle tags in a project.

12. p.37
THE AUTOSEARCH WINDOW
A color signifies the origin of the term (by default: red=translation memory, blue=termbase, white=lexicon).
But what means Yellow on screenshot?

The screenshot is to be found right below the customization paragraph in order to show that colors can be changed.

18.
p.125
Ignore numerals—With this option, A 100 m dash would be a duplicate of A 50 m dash. ?????

What is wrong about that? DVX3 gives you the possibility to count two segments whose only difference is a number as duplicates, since DVX will adapt the number automatically. Usage is optional.

Duplicates

I want to thank you for the inconsistencies you spotted and the corrections you suggested. We will fix them in due time. On another hand, I wish you had contacted us while translating it (thank you for that, also) since we would have had the chance to correct those mistakes earlier. But it's never too late. I will contact the writer today in order to correct those mistakes. Please feel free sending us your suggestions and comments directly. We truely value user input.

Kind regards,
Atril Team


[Edited at 2015-06-10 12:41 GMT]
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mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
re Jun 11, 2015

One can import, translate, and deliver a Transit package using Déjà Vu. It is true that as of today, references won’t be imported. This is on our roadmap.


I don't think that announcing of badly or not completely working feature is a good idea. Having tried it most of peoples are disappointed and start thinking about more reliable solution, especially when so annoing bugs like invalid XML... is not corrected few years.

That’s actually the other way around. We see a lot of illegal XML entities in XLIFF produced by other tool. Right now, Déjà Vu won’t import XLIFF with illegal XML entities because it is simply not supposed to do so. The idea behind XML is that it is supposed to make programs simple, efficient and reliable. One of the ways to do that is to force everyone to stick to the rules. If an XML file breaks the rules in some way (e.g. by having illegal entities in it) it should be rejected, because it can have disastreous consequences on the end user application (like a software, a website, etc.)
On another hand, practical reasons command us to import those – which we will implement – even though that’s not the right thing to do from a strictly technical point of view. Déjà Vu is one of the most compatible tool out there. Again, if you encounter any issue (or is DVX3 produces an XLIFF file with illegal character): write to support and we will fix that for you. That would also help us improving the compatibility.


Replace invalid XML entities with tags in internal DVX files. The same applies to any other incompatibilities.


Thank you for this very constructive remark.
The manual is actually divided into consistent parts, as you can see below:

DVX3_PRo

The manual is not a training program, nor a “DVX3 for dummies” book: it is supposed to bring any necessary information to Déjà Vu Users.
For step-by-step teaching, please have a look at the following, amongst many other things:

    Using Déjà Vu X3: A tutorial

    Training for new DVX3 users



Who are target readers of this manual? Newbies - it's difficult to start with, users of other CAT - due to interface terminology difference (and NO hot-keys sets for other CAT like DVX set in MemoQ) - some things for them will be hard to understand and this creates a negative attitude to DVX.

Only DVX users who want to become more competent in DVX3 remain. Are they a main aim of the manual?

If You have different manuals — it's a good idea to give all links on forums, etc.


Again, the aim of the manual is to offer all the necessary resources in the same file. It is not necessary to read it as a whole at once. Features are indexed, on page 10 you will find very useful pointers on how to optimize your experience with the guide. I don’t think I’m supposed to answer the second part of your question.



My first impression was to close manual, when I see more than 550 pages in it. It contains a lot of duplications, unnecessary links, redundant images. You can number all interface elements on the first big screenshot and later link to it as «pos. XX on fig. 1», but not putting new images in text.


This is not an e-document. It is available online, yes. But download it and you will benefit for the dynamic research which most of our users use to find relevant information. I find the index necessary in acrobat - it is actually used very often because it's dynamic: if one clicks on the reference, one will be taken to the right page instantly. I would tend to think that this is helpful, especially on large files.



I propose to ask the topic's community — 1) Do you print 500+ pages manuals?
2) How do You search information in e-manuals that contains index:
a) using Find/Search in software
b) using index in document


Ignore numerals—With this option, A 100 m dash would be a duplicate of A 50 m dash. ?????

What is wrong about that?


Punctuation

Correctly
With this option the sentence «A 100 m dash» would be a duplicate of the sentence «A 50 m dash».

12. p.37
THE AUTOSEARCH WINDOW
A color signifies the origin of the term (by default: red=translation memory, blue=termbase, white=lexicon).
But what means Yellow on screenshot?

The screenshot is to be found right below the customization paragraph in order to show that colors can be changed.


Changes are usually illustrated who two pictures BEFORE and AFTER


Another one problem - Do You have resource file with numbers or may be video of all screenshots with numbers of resources instead of text? Now I'm trying to correct russian UI and tired with correct/reload/check. First problem — that some inscriptions are present twice, trice etc. and it's difficult to determine which one to be corrected. Second problem — some inscription linked to 2-3-4 places but in russian it's better to divide them.
Example — resource string 20530 - «Add to TM» - on MAIN tab (where it means ADD 1 seg to TM - single operation) and on LEXICON tab (Where it means ADD whole lexicon to TM - batch operation and this is more close in sense to res. string 20531 «Add to TM» on PROJECT tab — Where it means ADD whole project to TM - batch operation)

This I can't correct with resource editor.

[Редактировалось 2015-06-11 16:29 GMT]


 
mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
DVX3 crush bug Jun 18, 2015

Example

two segments

1 abcd\
2 defr

Joining

1 adcd\{123}defr

DVX3 crushes when trying to do anything with new segment.


 
Atril_TEAM
Atril_TEAM
France
Local time: 10:26
Which file format? Jul 7, 2015

Hi Mikailo,

What is the source file format?
Could you please send the source file at [email protected] and detail what happens?

No one reported issues with the joining/splitting feature so we would like to see what causes the bug in your case.

Thank you,
Atril Team


 
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