| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | A suggestion for making Kudoz more effective Thread poster: Tom in London
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Huw Watkins wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
And I'd extend it to the forums as well. I don't know how many people have asked if there's a chance for them to get work as a translator...when we don't even know if they speak more than one language!
But what information should be required? That's the tricky part. It's been a while since I updated my profile but proz used to tell me how complete my profile was in terms of percentage. A minimum percentage threshold could perhaps work in this case?
Yes, and I would also suggest that a profile that has been left at the bare minimum for **10 years** and never completed or updated should be automatically deleted.
[Edited at 2015-03-23 11:00 GMT]
| | | | | You have a point there. How can it be made viable? | Mar 23, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
I do see a lot of anxious discussions about the fairness of Kudoz and try to stay out of them.
However I am making this suggestion because whenever ridiculously easy and obvious terminology questions are asked in my language pair, out of curiosity I click on the asker and, every time, it's always a profile that contains nothing except the name - which is sometimes not a name at all, but just a series of letters as though someone just banged some random keys such as "sfghiuhr" on the keyboard.
When the only information given in the profile is the absolute minimum required to be able to use Kudoz, this arouses my suspicion, although I will admit that for a long time, when I was a new user, I didn't complete my profile for a very long time - but I didn't ask any terminology questions either!
I agree with you, Tom, that there is some significant overall leniency by Proz regarding how much information one must provide to use several site features.
This stems from a couple of marketing decisions made by Proz:
a) what exclusive features would be deemed so 'valuable' to render paid membership worth the investment?; and
b) what can be left wide open to everybody, to attract more visitors who could potentially add value to such 'valuable' things?
Proz's major membership magnet seems to be the Blue Board, a tool intended to protect paying members' income by warning them on bad payers. Nevertheless free users are welcome to add input on their good and bad experiences with translation clients.
These free users are motivated to visit Proz by the Jobs board and the Kudoz as well, among other things.
There is a limit to the number of Kudoz questions one may post, as stated here, however I couldn't ascertain what this limit is, hence whether it is different for users and members.
Since there IS data available on profile completeness, I'd suggest that a few levels be set there, e.g. allowing something like:
for profile completeness = 0% = 1 question per week
for profile completeness 50% = according to user (e.g. 5 questions per day) or member (20 questions per day or unlimited???) status
A couple of notes:
a) I suggested 50% and not 100% because some may want to avoid publishing their rates, map location, whatever.
b) I am not sure about limiting members' queries, perhaps some non-translator thinks the membership fee is worth it for shattering a text into Kudoz questions and having an entire job done by Prozians.[/quote]
Tom in London wrote:
I just think it would make things fairer if the Kudoz facility could be restricted to paying users of Proz - in the same way in which many of its other facilities are similarly restricted.
This could be detrimental to Kudoz. Some language pairs are SO rare that their users can't - for different reasons - get a paid membership.
I see people who would be willing to kill for a handful of Browniz or Kudoz, so they can get a better ranking upon bidding for jobs. And yet, some of their input is valuable.
Tom in London wrote:
Despite what Erik says (above) I'm sure the operators of this website would always be interested in making innovations that enhance it.
Correct, however though most of the Proz staff members are polyglots, not all of them are/were translators, and the number of language pairs they could possibly cover would always be limited. For other reasons, their very number (headcount) will also be limited.
So they are obviously willing to implement any improvement that can both be automated and cover all language pairs.
One solution I envision is adding another option. Just as anyone can vote a question for "PRO / non-PRO", there could be a checkbox there to rate a question as "stupid" (or any more PC expression). Five (?) checks on that box from native-speaking (of the source language involved) members, and the question gets deleted, with an automatic message being sent to the asker.
This is a bit sketchy, however I hope it conveys the general idea.
| | | | | Have I missed something? | Mar 23, 2015 |
"KudoZ™ provides ProZ.com users a way to offer each other, and guests, free assistance in translating tough terms."
That being the case, how would more info about the asker improve the effectiveness of this feature?
| | | | Diana Obermeyer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:35
Member (2013)
German to English
+ ...
| Profile completeness | Mar 23, 2015 |
I can agree with. I've been baffled a few times when stumbling upon ancient empty profiles which appear to have been set up for the sole purpose of asking questions.
Withdrawing questions on grounds of stupidity is s step too far. I don't know how that is handled at the moment, but I believe a reduced number of Kudoz points available for non-pro questions should be sufficient to stop points collectors from falling over themselves answering what they consider obvious. I can't speak ... See more I can agree with. I've been baffled a few times when stumbling upon ancient empty profiles which appear to have been set up for the sole purpose of asking questions.
Withdrawing questions on grounds of stupidity is s step too far. I don't know how that is handled at the moment, but I believe a reduced number of Kudoz points available for non-pro questions should be sufficient to stop points collectors from falling over themselves answering what they consider obvious. I can't speak for other language pairs, but at least for German/English, the Kudoz police is out in full force and I regularly feel sorry for askers who "dare" to ask something the self-proclaimed gatekeepers consider obvious (even when there is disagreement among the answerers). The number of questions asked appears significantly lower than a year ago and I wouldn't be surprised if the sometimes offensive behaviour of senior colleagues has contributed to that. It is already in danger of loosing its claim to be a the friendly helpful resource, as the hostility displayed recently is absolutely disgusting.
In that light, I can't say I would blame members if they were to post questions under a different profile.
[Edited at 2015-03-23 12:09 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 13:05
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Kudoz in proz.com | Mar 23, 2015 |
The way I understand it, kudoz is one of the ways this website uses to attract new members. Most people first hear or think about proz.com, when they face a translation problem. It could be something they want to get translated, and in this case they use proz.com to post a job.
Or they are themselves translating something, not necessarily anything professional - it could just be a word or a line for a tatto, or a message to a new lover speaking a different language, or they may be t... See more The way I understand it, kudoz is one of the ways this website uses to attract new members. Most people first hear or think about proz.com, when they face a translation problem. It could be something they want to get translated, and in this case they use proz.com to post a job.
Or they are themselves translating something, not necessarily anything professional - it could just be a word or a line for a tatto, or a message to a new lover speaking a different language, or they may be trying to decipher something they have seen in a language they don't know.
Through googling or other internet approaches, they soon learn that one way out of their problem is to post it in kudoz as a question.
There is not even a need to register with proz.com, let alone create a profile, to post a kudoz question. Any one coming on to the proz.com page can straight away do it. The question would get posted, albeit as a non-pro question.
Soon these first timers get the hang of things, and start doing this repeatedly, each time exploring a little more of the site. Soon they realize it is quite simple to register as a free member, and they do it as it facilitates coming back to the site to check on the questions they have asked.
Gradually, proz.com grows on them, and some of these initial posters become more and more familiar with the site and become active, and sometimes paying, members of the site.
This is the reason why proz.com may not be too keen to act on your suggestion - it works very well for them in angling for new members.
[Edited at 2015-03-23 12:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Baffled - "more effective"?? | Mar 23, 2015 |
1. Why does it matter whether the asker's profile is complete or up-to-date, or who exactly it is? Either you're having a cuppa and feeling generous or you're not, surely?
2. I'm not a paying member because it had zero benefits for me. I most certainly wouldn't become one just to have access to KudoZ, which is all too often the blind leading the blind anyway.
I just don't get the issue here.
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 03:35
Russian to English
+ ...
| I simply don't answer questions posted by those I think are abusing the system | Mar 23, 2015 |
Nor do I comment on answers offered by others. That's it, problem solved. The answer is always less regulations, not more regulations.
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 15:35
Chinese to English
| Stinginess or what? | Mar 23, 2015 |
Tom, what's your goal with this suggestion?
If you're making simply because you don't wish to help people who don't seem to be contributing to the site in the way that you do, then I can't support it. Around every site like this there are core users, frequent users and fringe users, and that structure is never going to change. If you don't like the fringe users, then just ignore them. As others have suggested, they are Proz's customer pool, and I don't see why Proz should do anythin... See more Tom, what's your goal with this suggestion?
If you're making simply because you don't wish to help people who don't seem to be contributing to the site in the way that you do, then I can't support it. Around every site like this there are core users, frequent users and fringe users, and that structure is never going to change. If you don't like the fringe users, then just ignore them. As others have suggested, they are Proz's customer pool, and I don't see why Proz should do anything to alienate them.
But if you have another specific purpose in mind, then tell us about it. For example, in smaller language pairs like mine, Kudoz has quite a collegial atmosphere, and it's a good place to see what other translators are doing. Are you hoping to create that sort of a place? I would be sympathetic to that objective, if not necessarily to this specific suggestion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Not wishing to help people is, I would hope obviously, not my intention. My own high Kudoz score is evidence enough of that. I help people a lot, and with pleasure. But I get annoyed when the questions are easy and obvious: the kind of basic things any translator should reasonably be expected to know.
So when a user with no identity at all, apart from the bare minimum for registration, posts a series of questions of that kind, and this user has been registered and offering their ser... See more Not wishing to help people is, I would hope obviously, not my intention. My own high Kudoz score is evidence enough of that. I help people a lot, and with pleasure. But I get annoyed when the questions are easy and obvious: the kind of basic things any translator should reasonably be expected to know.
So when a user with no identity at all, apart from the bare minimum for registration, posts a series of questions of that kind, and this user has been registered and offering their services as a translator for ten years but still hasn't mastered the basics, I think it may be questionable as to whether such a user should be in the position of being able to award Kudoz points. Indeed I would question whether they are even able to select the correct answer for the glossary.
I hope that's clear. I don't mind helping people at all and in my language pair, there's a great camaraderie (generally speaking).
[Edited at 2015-03-23 16:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London wrote:
I get annoyed when the questions are easy and obvious: the kind of basic things any translator should reasonably be expected to know.
So when a user with no identity at all, apart from the bare minimum for registration, posts a series of questions of that kind, and this user has been registered and offering their services as a translator for ten years but still hasn't mastered the basics, I think it may be questionable as to whether such a user should be in the position of being able to award Kudoz points. Indeed I would question whether they are even able to select the correct answer for the glossary.
[Edited at 2015-03-23 15:59 GMT]
I agree there are plenty of translators out there who ask lots of basic, stupid and/or lazy questions. Some of them have very detailed and regularly updated profiles, some don't.
This won't change for as long as the site is open to all, so we'll just have to carry on as before and either ignore them or take pot-shots at them depending on mood.
PS You can't expect any asker to be in a position to choose the best answer, otherwise they wouldn't have asked the question!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER | Yes- but ten years? | Mar 23, 2015 |
Chris S wrote:
I agree there are plenty of translators out there who ask lots of basic, stupid and/or lazy questions.
Yes but if after ten years' registration as a translator they still haven't mastered the basics of the language into which they claim to translate, I think there's something fishy going on and I don't think it's fair to let such people award Kudoz points.
To slightly improve my suggestion in the light of some of the comments made, I suggest that there should be some way of allowing such people to ask questions and have them answered but NOT to award Kudoz points.
[Edited at 2015-03-23 16:27 GMT]
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| Sticky wicket! | Mar 24, 2015 |
Tom in London wrote:
I don't think it's fair to let such people award Kudoz points.
(...) I suggest that there should be some way of allowing such people to ask questions and have them answered but NOT to award Kudoz points.
Will you be restricting the right to vote in the general election next, Tom?!
Joking aside, even half-decent translators often don't award the points to the right person because they can't, by definition really, know which is the best answer.
I really don't care how many points I have, and I also have various uncharitable theories about those who have gazillions of them, but if points matter to you couldn't you just see these questions as an easy way of accumulating loadsapoints?
(PS Photo aside, I'm not sure whether I've updated my profile in the past ten years...)
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:35
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Chris S wrote:
.... couldn't you just see these questions as an easy way of accumulating loadsapoints?
(
I think this is the relevant part of your post.
| | | | | Just another point | Mar 25, 2015 |
We can´t forget that the askers have different language, educational and cultural backgrounds. That, of course, influences the way they post their questions and handle the site tools. Some of them want simply to be helped and they usually are not familiar with the Kudoz rules. They sometimes want help for simple questions and the questions are usually Non-PRO. But if they are barred or have their question taken off they probably won't approach the site again. I think Kudoz is also a service for... See more We can´t forget that the askers have different language, educational and cultural backgrounds. That, of course, influences the way they post their questions and handle the site tools. Some of them want simply to be helped and they usually are not familiar with the Kudoz rules. They sometimes want help for simple questions and the questions are usually Non-PRO. But if they are barred or have their question taken off they probably won't approach the site again. I think Kudoz is also a service for the community outside. And abuse is easily spotted among experienced translators. ▲ Collapse
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