| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Agency requesting deductions from invoice Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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| Hope it works out | Mar 4, 2010 |
Let us know how it goes!
| | | | | To Russell: Italian Civil Law deadline for contesting work... | Mar 4, 2010 |
Russell Jones wrote:
I had a remarkably similar experience with an Italian agency a few months ago, though in this case it was only my second job for them - the first and only time I have ever had my English questioned. I was only sent the "revised" version after submitting my end of month invoice, three weeks later.
Just for your information, I am still in a legal battle with an Italian company which just decided not to pay me. They didn't contest my work or anything like that, they just haven't yet paid... nearly three years later. And no prizes for guessing the legal proceedings have been going on for that long as well!!!! Although we are nearing the end... and I won my case several months ago... but it's like getting blood out of stone...
Anyway, to cut a very long story short, according to my lawyer (and the Italian Civil Code), clients have eight working days to contest the quality of the work you've done for them. If they haven't done that within that time span, they basically have no right to request a discount from you unless the errors were so grave that they led to more serious consequences outside translation. Just thought I'd mention that in case this sort of things crop up again. I'm a near expert on legal proceedings for non-payment for translations in Italy so if you ever need any advice... let's hope it never comes to that!
| | | | XXXphxxx (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Cross-border proceedings | Mar 5, 2010 |
Frances Leggett wrote:
I'm a near expert on legal proceedings for non-payment for translations in Italy so if you ever need any advice... let's hope it never comes to that!
Hi Frances,
I realise your experience is in Italy but what do you know about cross-border proceedings? The little I've managed to find out so far is that Denmark is excluded from EU small claims cross-border proceedings...
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
PCovs wrote:
I would repeat the refusal to accept the reduction as a first remedy [/quote]
excellent suggestion.
I would suggest to the company that an independent proofreader be hired to check up on your translation
another excellent suggestion which they surely could not refuse.
And once this is sorted out I would say goodbye to that agency since clearly something has changed at their end- they may be been bought out by someone else.
However there is the possibility that you have found yourself dealing with a zealous new member of staff, keen to prove their worth. Perhaps you could go over their head and talk to the person you've always dealt with before.
[Edited at 2010-03-05 08:38 GMT]
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| Stop here - bad business practise ahead | Mar 5, 2010 |
Lisa Simpson wrote:
I wonder if anyone can offer any advice.
At the end of last week I received an e-mail from them attaching 2 heavily revised files. The story was that the client was not happy with my work and it therefore had to be revised by their in-house translators.
[Edited at 2010-03-03 13:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-03 15:04 GMT]
My advice would be, to stop at this point and ask the agency why they did not come back to you immediately after the client told them about his complaints.
The normal practise would be for the client to point out his concerns regarding the quality of your translation and the agency asking you to revise your work. You of course would then have the chance either to make appropriate changes and/or to point out, why your work is correct and the client´s requests are not.
If I understood you right, the agency did the revision, so if they decided to make a revision by themselves instead of asking you to do so, it´s their own business decision for which they should be fully responsible.
I think it is one of the responsibilities of an agency to handle client´s complaints in accordance with best business practises, which they failed to do in your case. Insist on being treated properly, so complaints will not be handled behind your back and without you knowing, which means when they give you already revised files it is far too late and they already have acted behind your back.
OR: if the agency decides not to involve you, they also should not hold you financally responsible.
Unfortunately many translators think they have to play this game and start to defend their work, instead of insisting in being treated as a business partner and not (as Elefterios in another thread nicely pointed out) as a child in Kindergarten.
I hope this helps but am afraid it will not (change general practises)
Daniel
P.S.: I have not read through this particular thread, so I apologise if my posting does not quite fit into the current stream of postings
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I agree - no future in this relationship. | Mar 5, 2010 |
Daniel Meier wrote:
My advice would be, to stop at this point and ask the agency why they did not come back to you immediately after the client told them about his complaints.
Thank you for your valuable contribution Daniel. Don't worry you did not need to read the entire thread, you've got the general idea Indeed I have told them that I do not accept the 50% reduction and that they should not have presented this to me as a 'fait accompli'. I have enclosed my invoice saying that I hope they will do the honourable thing (perhaps that was too mildly put) and I have not heard back from them. We shall have to wait and see. I am loath to kick up more of a fuss now and sacrifice 100% of the invoice amount. Fact is, a colleague (if they preferred) or I, could have revised the translation free of charge if we had been told the client was unhappy, but I wasn't even given the chance. There is also the thorny issue of me not even agreeing with the client's quibbles with terms that I used (which would appear to be cross-cultural U.S./U.K. lack of understanding of British English terminology). I've been in this business since 1994 so I'm not a new kid on the block but I am fortunately or unfortunately new to such disputes and really rather shocked at this kind of behaviour.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| non-payment excuse | Mar 5, 2010 |
Lisa Simpson wrote:
I'm not a new kid on the block but I am fortunately or unfortunately new to such disputes and really rather shocked at this kind of behaviour.
My own recent and not-so-recent experience is gradually persuading me that when agencies query the quality of a translation, in 99% of cases this is spurious, and the real reason is that they are using this as an excuse to reduce the amount payable or to not pay at all.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Perhaps I'm too naive | Mar 5, 2010 |
Tom in London wrote:
My own recent and not-so-recent experience is gradually persuading me that when agencies query the quality of a translation, in 99% of cases this is spurious, and the real reason is that they are using this as an excuse to reduce the amount payable or to not pay at all.
I'm shocked at the number of stories I've heard since starting this thread and reading similar other ones on the forum and in these difficult times am beginning to see gaps in the way I work. Based on this one I'm starting another thread on people's experiences re. POs. How many people work without them?
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Russell Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Italian to English
| To Frances: Italian Civil Law | Mar 5, 2010 |
Frances Leggett wrote:
according to my lawyer (and the Italian Civil Code), clients have eight working days to contest the quality of the work you've done for them. If they haven't done that within that time span, they basically have no right to request a discount from you
Thank you for that information Frances.
Thinking back on this job, they did actually send me an initial (very friendly) reponse, saying something like "this is an important client - one or two phrases seem to us not quite as elegant as English can be, compared with Italian", so I dutifully reviewed it very critically and made a few minor improvements. - I heard nothing more until submitting my invoice, when they wrote "Not sure whether we sent you this revision earlier ...".
In the light of what you say, I am wondering if this was just their strategy for staying within the law.
| | | | | Not sure of cross-border proceedings... | Mar 5, 2010 |
Lisa Simpson wrote: Frances Leggett wrote:
I'm a near expert on legal proceedings for non-payment for translations in Italy so if you ever need any advice... let's hope it never comes to that! Hi Frances, I realise your experience is in Italy but what do you know about cross-border proceedings? The little I've managed to find out so far is that Denmark is excluded from EU small claims cross-border proceedings...
All I can tell you is that I am self-employed in the UK and the company that still has not paid me is Italian. So the proceedings were to contact an Italian lawyer who could take on the case, not an English lawyer. Given the company I was having problems with was in Italy, it had to be an Italian lawyer to take on proceedings. My lawyer gave me a temporary residence at his legal studio address for the duration of the proceedings. I imagine, although am not 100%, that it should be the same in Denmark. Your agency is in Denmark therefore Danish law should apply.
So the next step to do is see if the Danish "Civil Code" has an article somewhere in there about a certain number of days to make a complaint. Best thing to do would be to ask a Danish lawyer, perhaps there are some websites that offer free legal advice for Denmark if it just involves a couple of questions.
Having said that... the problem with not giving them the discount or standing up for yourself invariably ruins the relationship you have with the agency anyway, at least it does in my experience. As I understand it you've already sent them your full invoice with no discount which is probably for the best - now I guess you just need to find a new client or expect some sort of apology from them. Hope it works out!
| | | | | I would agree... | Mar 5, 2010 |
Tom in London wrote: Lisa Simpson wrote:
I'm not a new kid on the block but I am fortunately or unfortunately new to such disputes and really rather shocked at this kind of behaviour. My own recent and not-so-recent experience is gradually persuading me that when agencies query the quality of a translation, in 99% of cases this is spurious, and the real reason is that they are using this as an excuse to reduce the amount payable or to not pay at all.
Sad isn't it!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Frances Leggett wrote:
Sad isn't it!
the only way round this is to begin working with new clients on small projects at first and gradually establish reciprocal confidence and trust, before taking on big projects.
I am always suspicious when someone I've never worked for invites me to take on a big project.
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Portuguese to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Absolutely agree | Mar 5, 2010 |
Tom in London wrote:
the only way round this is to begin working with new clients on small projects at first and gradually establish reciprocal confidence and trust, before taking on big projects.
I am always suspicious when someone I've never worked for invites me to take on a big project.
That's exactly how I work and I never take a large job from someone I haven't worked for already. However, in this instance I had done about 50 jobs for this client, hundreds of thousands of words, spanning more than 4 years, I thought they could be trusted
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| internal changes maybe? | Mar 5, 2010 |
Lisa Simpson wrote: I had done about 50 jobs for this client, hundreds of thousands of words, spanning more than 4 years, I thought they could be trusted
Lisa, that's why I think it might be possible that you're dealing with a new and over-zealous person who needs to be stamped on. Couldn't you contact the person you're used to dealing with?
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:24
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | This IS the person | Mar 5, 2010 |
Tom in London wrote:
Lisa, that's why I think it might be possible that you're dealing with a new and over-zealous person who needs to be stamped on. Couldn't you contact the person you're used to dealing with?
I agree Tom, I also strongly suspect that this is the case. I imagine that there is a new person in the picture either at the client's or the agency. What makes me suspect that is not only the fact that they were suddenly disatissfied and seemingly weren't even prepared to trust me to carry out the revisions but also they'd provided me with a template to use for these translations. I'd been using the template for the past 4 years or so and although I was never quite satisfied with it, what the client wants the client gets, I've used the same template every time, jobs submitted virtually every month until these last 2 where the template was also HEAVILY revised. Unfortunately my contact person at the agency has been the same throughout so there's no going over her head elsewhere...
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