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Agency requesting deductions from invoice
Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 04:45
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Spread the word about the BB Mar 6, 2010

Perhaps one of the best things that we translators can do to help improve the industry is spread the word (discreetly, maybe) about the existence of such sites as BB - even if they are not named (the 'unknown' might even have more effect). The majority of outsourcers pay well. A thanks on the BB would notify them that it exists and put them on their toes.

 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Prefer not to post any of the text Mar 6, 2010

Tom in London wrote:

It would be very interesting to read a short sample of your translation, and the corresponding sample of their edited version.

[Edited at 2010-03-06 09:58 GMT]


I really prefer not to post any of that, don't want to be accused of breach of confidentiality or anything (not that there's ever been a contract to that effect). I suppose you only have my word on this, 16 years experience as a translator, DipTrans, Member of the Chartered Institute of Linguists etc. Sometimes feels a bit like I'm filling in time between birth and death but I am a translation professional, not a fly-by-night cowboy. Of course every translation can be improved on, who wouldn't be able to put any translation they've done to one side for a day or two and then find things they would like to revise in it? How many of us have done a translation that we could call 'perfect'?


 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Strength in numbers Mar 6, 2010

John Fossey wrote:

Perhaps one of the best things that we translators can do to help improve the industry is spread the word (discreetly, maybe) about the existence of such sites as BB


I agree John - strength in numbers. It can often seem hopeless: pitiful rates, which keep going down rather than up; greater technological demands and investments... BUT we are still providing an essential service and we must remember that. Fortunately a machine still cannot do what we do and one day perhaps we may stop those people who say, "Oh, you're a translator! Lovely! Yes, I met a waiter last summer in Cyprus who spoke 5 languages fluently and I said to him, 'You MUST give up waiting on people and become a translator!'" Then again, maybe I'm dreaming...


 
amanda55
amanda55
English to Finnish
+ ...
Hugs and sympathies Mar 6, 2010

Bastin - thanks. If I copy your terms, can they be translated into English? I mean on your website. Lots of hugs from cold Spain.

Lisa - I have been there and got two teeshirts. No.1: when I went freelance two years ago I did a major job for a Finnish company in the UK. It was huge, over 57000 words and paid about £1600. Normally it would have taken me two weeks to do but the end client kept coming back with ridiculous "corrections". I won't go into details apart from one sen
... See more
Bastin - thanks. If I copy your terms, can they be translated into English? I mean on your website. Lots of hugs from cold Spain.

Lisa - I have been there and got two teeshirts. No.1: when I went freelance two years ago I did a major job for a Finnish company in the UK. It was huge, over 57000 words and paid about £1600. Normally it would have taken me two weeks to do but the end client kept coming back with ridiculous "corrections". I won't go into details apart from one sentence which to this day still has me in stiches. (It was Fi-En and an annual report for their various subsidiaries so I had enormous reseach to do. ) The sentence I did read: "This company has prestigious offices in...." naming a location. The client kept changing it to read: " This company operates a whorehouse in... " No matter how I told them that I wasn't changing it, they still kept coming back with the same error. I came to the conclusion that they had several people reading my work and the biggest chief had the final say. In the end, it took me a month to complete the job and although this agency had their own proof readers who checked it all, somehow I got the blame and no other work from them.

No2: proofreading. As the rates are going down and deadlines tightening, my rates are usually turned down in favour of a cheaper operator. Like so many people here, I refuse to work for peanuts. I would rather lie in bed and spit at the ceiling, like we say in Finnish. So, once again, some idiot had taken on a job they couldn't possibly do in the timeframe specified. I was asked to proofread, not re-translate. So I did. A couple of months later the agency comes back and asks me for a 25% discount as the client is refusing to pay. It turns out this was an advertising campaing and the client didn't think the translation "captured the image of the product". For a start, it was for femal audience and they had chosen a male to do the job. Secondly, I had not been given the brief so I only did what I was told. I insisted on not accepting any responsibility for a brief I had not been given. In the end the guy, a really decent Irish fellow, gave in. He said also that he was fed up with dealing with constant claims from clients and had resigned as he couldn't treat decent, nice people like me, with total contempt. So Lisa, take heart. In these hard times clients are trying their level best to destroy us and drive the rates down. The problem is, there are morons out there who accept 1USD cent per word jobs. I reluctantly accepted a 10 USD cent job the other day but still I made good money and they promised more work from this client, for whom I used to work for in Finland.

Last of all, read my posting in the Low Rates chain and what happened to me yesterday. In brief, an agency is trying to con me out of over $1000 for work done last year, claiming they never authorised it, although I have a PO from their official email site. For further details, pls email me.
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Russell Jones
Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Italian to English
Job never authorised Mar 6, 2010

amanda55 wrote:

an agency is trying to con me out of over $1000 for work done last year, claiming they never authorised it, although I have a PO from their official email site.


Just a thought Amanda (even though we are straying a little from Lisa's topic) there have been a few instances reported recently of bogus outsourcers impersonating bona fide agencies to con translations out of freelancers and then disappearing, without paying of course.

I hope you haven't been caught by one of these. Worth double checking the e-mail address perhaps?

[Edited at 2010-03-06 17:34 GMT]


 
amanda55
amanda55
English to Finnish
+ ...
Thanks Russel Mar 6, 2010

Cheers for that. I feel so peeved, to put it mildly, that I don't know what to do any more. I feel like handing in the towel and I also joined the BB campaign. I only wish I had found your site sooner but better later than never, everyone is so wonderful here, unlike some other forums I have visited.

 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Best line I've heard in a long time Mar 6, 2010

amanda55 wrote:

I would rather lie in bed and spit at the ceiling, like we say in Finnish.


I love that expression

I'll take a look at your other thread but can't see how this agency can explain the PO got to you otherwise (?), what's the PM's excuse?

[Edited at 2010-03-06 18:23 GMT]


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Member (2008)
Italian to English
perfection Mar 6, 2010

Lisa Simpson wrote:

How many of us have done a translation that we could call 'perfect'?



Oh, all my translations are perfect.


Unfortunately, perfection only lasts for about 5 minutes.


 
amanda55
amanda55
English to Finnish
+ ...
No idea Mar 6, 2010

Hi Lisa, She didn't. She was on one of the POs but she claims not to remember. In private emails another member of this forum told me how her friend was fleeced by this very same agency years ago. Because we are not allowed to name and shame, these agencies can keep going. I will contact the end client, a company I worked for some years ago. I will keep you posted.

Good work Tom, I agree.


 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
BB Mar 7, 2010

amanda55 wrote:

Because we are not allowed to name and shame, these agencies can keep going.


Thinking of Amanda's problem: do forum rules allow us to make a public request for people to log an entry on the BB if they have had any experience (both good and bad) of a specific outsourcer (i.e. which would involve having to name them on the forum) and once that's done this can in turn be forwarded to the respective outsourcer?


 
Russell Jones
Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Italian to English
Blue Board Rules Mar 7, 2010

The relevant Blue Board rule is here: http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/8#8

Attempting to influence another's use of the
Blue Board is prohibited. Exerting pressure on
someone to change a Blue Board entry or reply, or
to make a new entry or reply of a specific nature, is
forbidden. (Inviting service providers or outsourcers
... See more
The relevant Blue Board rule is here: http://www.proz.com/siterules/blue_board_bb_blueboard/8#8

Attempting to influence another's use of the
Blue Board is prohibited. Exerting pressure on
someone to change a Blue Board entry or reply, or
to make a new entry or reply of a specific nature, is
forbidden. (Inviting service providers or outsourcers
to make entries or replies is acceptable, as long as
there is no attempt to influence the content of those
postings.)

[Edited at 2010-03-07 10:43 GMT]
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XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What about forum rules? Mar 7, 2010

Russell Jones wrote:

Inviting service providers or outsourcers
to make entries or replies is acceptable, as long as
there is no attempt to influence the content of those
postings.


Thanks Russell. So if I understand this correctly, service providers can invite others to post their experiences (good or bad) of a particular outsourcer on the Blue Board, but will forum rules allow this outsourcer to be named when inviting the service providers?


 
Russell Jones
Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Italian to English
No names Mar 7, 2010

[quote]Lisa Simpson wrote:

will forum rules allow this outsourcer to be named when inviting the service providers?


No Lisa; outsourcers may not be named in the forums.
Site rule: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/8#8

Outsourcers may not be discussed specifically.
Posts or comments regarding a specific outsourcer
(identified by name, reference, link or other means),
whether positive or negative, are not permitted. (To
indicate their likelihood of working again with a
given outsourcer, site users should use the ProZ.com
Blue Board.)

The reason for this is explained in the FAQs: http://www.proz.com/faq/3070#3070

19 - Why can I not use the forums to warn others about a bad agency?
As you might guess, public criticims tend to be explosive, often generating dozens or even hundreds of emails, phone calls, even legal interactions.

Furthermore, with over many thousands of registered users, ProZ.com is much more volatile than existing payment practices lists, which have fewer than 1000 members. For this reason, a single critical posting at ProZ.com usually demands hours of careful attention on the part of administrators, moderators, and bystanders.

After dealing with a number of well-intentioned criticisms, ProZ.com's staff has come to the conclusion that we simply can not handle administration of an open public forum that allows criticisms, no matter how justified they may be. That is why we created the Blue Board--to meet the information need in a structured, and manageable, way.




[Edited at 2010-03-07 11:15 GMT]


 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Agreed Mar 7, 2010

Russell Jones wrote:

No Lisa; outsourcers may not be named in the forums.


Yes, that's what I thought and this is completely understandable, I can absolutely see that things could rapidly get out of hand and descend into chaos but it does make me wonder why a particular outsourcer (Lionbridge) is being discussed in a current thread: http://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/159536-translation_workspace_lionbridge.html


 
Russell Jones
Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:45
Italian to English
CAT tool not outsourcer Mar 7, 2010

Lisa Simpson wrote:

it does make me wonder why a particular outsourcer is being discussed in a current thread



What is being discussed in that thread is the company's role, not as an outsourcer but as developer / promoter / vendor of its product Translation Workplace (and the conditions under which it is used).
Similarly elsewhere, there is a whole forum dedicated to Trados software but its parent company is not discussed in its capacity as outsourcer.


 
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