| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Agency requesting deductions from invoice Thread poster: XXXphxxx (X)
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Russell Jones 
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Italian to English
| Russell Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Italian to English
Lisa Simpson wrote: Russell Jones wrote:
The Blue Board may not be used to coerce.
Using the Blue Board, or threatening to use the Blue
Board, in such a way as to pressure an outsourcer or
service provider into taking some action, is strictly
prohibited.
Thanks Russell. Just wondering why? Would it constitute blackmail (?) Tricky to know how to play it. My LWA score would be nil (or 1 if 0 isn't possible!) and that wouldn't change whether this matter gets resolved or not, but if they eventually do see the light and realise that they haven't behaved properly shouldn't they be credited for that?
I would be guessing Lisa if I tried to answer that - or probably even speculating about other people's views or discussing administrative actions in the forums - both against the rules!
The FAQs do not explain further so the only option if you really want to understand the reason would be to submit a Support Request to Staff, here: http://www.proz.com/support?mode=ask&sp_sub_mode=ticket_submit
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Thaank you Russell, you have been more than helpful. I am slowly going through the rules. Unfortunately I don't have the money to join right now but it looks very promising.
| | | | Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I have had some cases of agencies making the most absurd claims and demanding to pay less with ridiculous reasoning. It was disheartening at first, but now I am more aware.
There was this episode in which I was contacted by an agency for the first time, and they gave a very long text, can't remember how many words now but it took me a whole week. I did my absolute best, especially considering they told me there would be no proofreading. So I did that myself and there were no spelli... See more I have had some cases of agencies making the most absurd claims and demanding to pay less with ridiculous reasoning. It was disheartening at first, but now I am more aware.
There was this episode in which I was contacted by an agency for the first time, and they gave a very long text, can't remember how many words now but it took me a whole week. I did my absolute best, especially considering they told me there would be no proofreading. So I did that myself and there were no spelling or grammar errors of any kind.
About a week later they called me trying to arrange a conference call with the client and other translators. That was the first time I was informed this was a chapter of a larger publication and there were other translators working on it. They did not know either, and of course the client was upset reading different vocabulary and terminology in each chapter.
I felt that if they didn't have a proofreader they should at least put us (the translators) in touch or given us glossaries or guidelines.
30 days later, the agency contacted me saying the client had changed so much of my text they felt like I didn't deserve to be paid. I asked to see what he had changed, and once again confirmed there were no errors. The client did not like certain words and preferred others. Just like the Brazilian saying he changed 6 for half a dozen. None of that had anything to do with my work as a translator and I'd be happy to adjust the text and replace words. Paying more attention to the changes, I realised the client rewrote the text into European Portuguese. The agency had requested a translation to Brazilian Portuguese.
I kept getting emails saying my work was so bad they did not want to pay me, but eventually they did.
If you have an agency and your clients, suddenly it's your responsibility. The client trusts that the agency will do its best, he/she shouldn't be hearing "it's the translator's fault". Unfortunately, not all of them are that professional and serious and are more concerned with maximizing their profits rather than maintaining long-term relationships with clients and freelance workers.
[Edited at 2010-03-07 21:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | BB as leverage | Mar 8, 2010 |
Thank you Russell I will drop them a line. Am just curious.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Paula Borges wrote:
The client did not like certain words and preferred others. Just like the Brazilian saying he changed 6 for half a dozen. None of that had anything to do with my work as a translator and I'd be happy to adjust the text and replace words. Paying more attention to the changes, I realised the client rewrote the text into European Portuguese. The agency had requested a translation to Brazilian Portuguese.
[Edited at 2010-03-07 21:21 GMT]
Hi Paula,
This certainly rings a bell. Your '6/meia dúzia' example was exactly the kind of amendment I had throughout my document. I felt the changes were completely arbitrary, none changing the actual meaning of the text and it's also questionable whether one of the proofreaders (they claim there was more than 1) was an English native speaker at all. What I find odd in these cases is that they are prepared to put that much work into revisions simply to get away with not paying. It makes no sense, unless of course if you have a lot of staff sitting around twiddling their thumbs, guess it's another way of making/saving money...
Glad to hear you got paid in the end though.
| | | | pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 19:35
English to Danish
Yes, indeed it does seem that none of the employees are native English speakers, and moreover most of them graduated more than 10 years ago, so perhaps one could argue their ability to proofread an English text.
Only one American client of mine doesn't care whether the proofreader is native or not, but this is also true for their translations, so...
All my other clients only use native speakers for both parts.
Pia
| | | | Paula Borges
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Member (2010)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Lisa Simpson wrote: Paula Borges wrote:
The client did not like certain words and preferred others. Just like the Brazilian saying he changed 6 for half a dozen. None of that had anything to do with my work as a translator and I'd be happy to adjust the text and replace words. Paying more attention to the changes, I realised the client rewrote the text into European Portuguese. The agency had requested a translation to Brazilian Portuguese.
[Edited at 2010-03-07 21:21 GMT] Hi Paula, This certainly rings a bell. Your '6/meia dúzia' example was exactly the kind of amendment I had throughout my document. I felt the changes were completely arbitrary, none changing the actual meaning of the text and it's also questionable whether one of the proofreaders (they claim there was more than 1) was an English native speaker at all. What I find odd in these cases is that they are prepared to put that much work into revisions simply to get away with not paying. It makes no sense, unless of course if you have a lot of staff sitting around twiddling their thumbs, guess it's another way of making/saving money... Glad to hear you got paid in the end though.
Perhaps if they used all this time and effort they use trying to pay less, they could get more work to do.
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| unapropriate way of resolving the problem | Mar 8, 2010 |
John Rawlins wrote:
Approach the client directly as the translator who has been working on their material for the past two years. Tell them that they can save considerable time and money by dealing directly with you. Give them an indication of your pricing levels.
I believe you would have a fair chance of winning the account for yourself. If not, you may well contribute to the agency losing the account. Business, as they say, is business.
Although I can understand where the frustration is coming from, I really dislike this approach and think it's very unapropriate to put it mildly!
Translation agencies make up for a nice workload in case of many freelance translators.
You should always try to resolve an issue with the agency first or take the matter to the Trade Union to which the agency belongs to, but contacting the client directly is a very unapropriate thing to do in my opinion!
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 19:35
French to German
+ ...
| There are no "trade unions"... | Mar 8, 2010 |
Rifraf wrote:
You should always try to resolve an issue with the agency first or take the matter to the Trade Union to which the agency belongs to, but contacting the client directly is a very unapropriate thing to do in my opinion!
in the usual sense of the word - I would call them "professional associations", not more, not less - and whether they can help solving any issue between a translator and an agency is still another question, especially if the translator is located in France and the outsourcer in Denmark, like here. Who should deal with the matter? The FIT? A Danish professional association? I do no think it is their purpose.
The rather simple truth is that, while many agencies are open to dialogue, some of them need legal constraint or lots of pressure to act.
However and in this case, I do not think that contacting the end client can change anything. Remember: there are two distinct contracts - one between the agency and the freelancer, the other between the agency and the end client.
But the agency cannot simply pass on the client's dissatisfaction with them over to the freelancer. They have to deal with it themselves and shortening payment does not mean solving the problem.
[Edited at 2010-03-08 13:24 GMT]
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:35
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Trying to sort this out | Mar 8, 2010 |
Rifraf wrote:
You should always try to resolve an issue with the agency first
Agreed, which is what I'm trying to do but since they've given me a 'non-negotiable offer' to deduct 25% from my invoice I don't see that they're allowing much room to try and resolve anything. Meanwhile I am the one who is out of pocket and waiting for them to pay up...
| | | | | Reality is different | Mar 8, 2010 |
[quote]Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Rifraf wrote:
But the agency cannot simply pass on the client's dissatisfaction with them over to the freelancer. They have to deal with it themselves and shortening payment does not mean solving the problem.
[Edited at 2010-03-08 13:24 GMT]
This is exactly what they do, though, as one agency tried to fleece me out of 25% of already low rate by saying the client was refusing to pay. I pointed it out to them that using cheap translators and then asking me to proofread costs them twice. However, it doesn't as they deduct any proofreading fees from the original translator. This is how they get away with it. Needless to say, I wasn't given any brief on the proofreading required.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 19:35
French to German
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| This is where one can clearly see... | Mar 8, 2010 |
amanda55 wrote:
This is exactly what they do, though, as one agency tried to fleece me out of 25% of already low rate by saying the client was refusing to pay. I pointed it out to them that using cheap translators and then asking me to proofread costs them twice. However, it doesn't as they deduct any proofreading fees from the original translator. This is how they get away with it. Needless to say, I wasn't given any brief on the proofreading required.
This is where one can clearly see one of the main differences between translation professionals (there are still some "true" agencies around) and mere wheelers and dealers trying to make reselling deals at the lowest level.
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In my language pairs all the decent agencies have gone, everybody is fleecing us and because of some low-life operators, they get away with it. Calling trade unions as associations who do not help is correct from my experience. I would cancel my membership but then all the work would stop as agencies use them as the first point of reference. I do have other contacts but every time they advertise and I reply, I hear nothing, so I have started deleting their mails straight away without reading.
| | | | | Not a pleasant place to be | Mar 8, 2010 |
Lisa Simpson wrote:
...but since they've given me a 'non-negotiable offer' to deduct 25% from my invoice I don't see that they're allowing much room to try and resolve anything
I guess it's going to come down to how badly you want to keep the client, and/or how much time/money you want to spend chasing down payment. According to the law found by PCovs, it seems like they are the ones who don't have a legal leg to stand on, but as we all know, that doesn't count for a hill of beans if they just want to fight you.
I think you mentioned already that you wrote them back about your position and its basis in contract/commercial law. Let's hope they take the high road and work with you instead of against you.
In the meantime, have you checked to see if there are any English-language websites offered by the government or some industrious lawyers regarding debt collections/enforcement of this law?
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