| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | How to deal with non-paying outsourcers? Thread poster: Tiffany Le
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Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
I received a job offer via Proz about 6 months ago. He was an unregistered member. The project was rather large and worth $1,000. I completed the project and got paid immediately. then next project came. The total amount due is around $750. It was invoiced 5 months ago but I haven't received the payment.
While waiting for the payment, I and the outsourcer kept communicating on Skype and he seemed very nice. I did not mention about the payment until the day I wanted to buy something online ... See more I received a job offer via Proz about 6 months ago. He was an unregistered member. The project was rather large and worth $1,000. I completed the project and got paid immediately. then next project came. The total amount due is around $750. It was invoiced 5 months ago but I haven't received the payment.
While waiting for the payment, I and the outsourcer kept communicating on Skype and he seemed very nice. I did not mention about the payment until the day I wanted to buy something online and asked him to PayPal me instead of wire transfer. He said "sure" then disappeared for weeks now.
I have no clue as to who he is, his detailed address or anything. All I know are an email address and some personal information.
What should I do now? Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
Thanks for your time.
Thanh. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie 
Poland
Local time: 06:23
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER | First thing to try | Sep 30, 2014 |
Create a Blue Board record and make an entry.
| | | | Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | No BB at all | Sep 30, 2014 |
Natalie wrote:
Create a Blue Board record and make an entry.
Thanks for your reply Natalie. The thing here is that he's not a registered Proz member. I only have his address. He always seems to be nice until the day I ask for the payment
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Thanh Nguyen Thai wrote: Natalie wrote:
Create a Blue Board record and make an entry.
Thanks for your reply Natalie. The thing here is that he's not a registered Proz member. I only have his address. He always seems to be nice until the day I ask for the payment
Tell him that as of 30 days from the date of your invoice you will be adding interest at the daily rate of [whatever % you think appropriate].
Tell him that since in the end he *is* going to pay you, it would be to his advantage to do so now.
Also tell him that you have opened a discussion thread on the Proz website. He might like to follow it.
ABOVE ALL be resolved, in your own mind, that you *are* going to be paid. It's just another thing you have to do.
Keep coming back here and update us on your progress with this.
If this doesn't lead to a result, your next step would be to find out where he is. Maybe you could start from his Skype name, or his IP address; or maybe there are some clues in the document you translated. If, for example, it's a Word document, there may be data hidden in it that will tell you who originally wrote it.
But I'm puzzled because you say he has already paid you before- so you already have quite a few details about his bank etc.
[Edited at 2014-09-30 09:50 GMT]
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Val R.
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:23
English to Romanian
+ ...
| I might be over-cautious, but working for overseas clients is risky | Sep 30, 2014 |
To be honest, I never accept any work from private clients, especially if they are based overseas. If they represent a company, I make sure I get all the company details first. I have always thought I am over-cautious and I might be wrong to decline work from clients who are based outside the UK. If the clients are based in the UK I know what to do and where to go to get my money. But who can offer us the protection we need in cases like this, I fail to understand. I do hope you will get your mo... See more To be honest, I never accept any work from private clients, especially if they are based overseas. If they represent a company, I make sure I get all the company details first. I have always thought I am over-cautious and I might be wrong to decline work from clients who are based outside the UK. If the clients are based in the UK I know what to do and where to go to get my money. But who can offer us the protection we need in cases like this, I fail to understand. I do hope you will get your money. In my view it is just a matter of luck, and it is sad. The best of luck, and please keep us posted. From another point of view, if they are not registered Proz members, is there any other list we could make or add the names of people/agencies/companies we should avoid working for? It would help us all, I guess. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Val R. wrote:
To be honest, I never accept any work from private clients, especially if they are based overseas. If they represent a company, I make sure I get all the company details first....
I agree.
Unfortunately it won't help in this case, but in future I would advise never to accept a job without first obtaining the client's business address, VAT number, etc. It's normal practice to ask for that information before you start.
[Edited at 2014-09-30 09:52 GMT]
| | | | Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Some clues but very small | Sep 30, 2014 |
Thanks Tom and Val for your thoughts.
Tom,
I have his SKype ID and it's been grey for weeks since I mentioned the payment. I have his IP address when he offered me the first job through Proz Message. However, as I heard from him when we were still communicating, he was in Mexico because he got some visa problems to come back to US for work. His work is somewhere in Dallas.
I also searched his email address on Google and came up with a CV of a German translator who has worked fo... See more Thanks Tom and Val for your thoughts.
Tom,
I have his SKype ID and it's been grey for weeks since I mentioned the payment. I have his IP address when he offered me the first job through Proz Message. However, as I heard from him when we were still communicating, he was in Mexico because he got some visa problems to come back to US for work. His work is somewhere in Dallas.
I also searched his email address on Google and came up with a CV of a German translator who has worked for him. I emailed her asking for assistance in case she knew something about him but haven't heard from her.
The Google search also led me to some discussion forums but they are all in Spanish and his profile on those forums is blank. Ah, I have followed him on LinkedIn and noticed that 2 days ago he had a new connection. It means he was online 2 days ago but never replied to my Skype message or email, which is strange because he always appeared to be nice and replied to every message of mine.
By the way, the first payment he made was through xoom.com and it is in Spanish so I'm not sure if I can get anything from this.
Val,
I'm kind of cautious when working with clients as well though I work with foreign clients most of the time. I become cautious when someone offers me a job from a gmail or yahoo mail or something like that. For Proz clients, I always check his/her profile to see whether I should accept the offer or not.
This is the worst experience ever in my freelance career. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:23
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| If he's reading this.... | Sep 30, 2014 |
Thanh Nguyen Thai wrote:
Thanks Tom and Val for your thoughts.
Tom,
I have his SKype ID and it's been grey for weeks since I mentioned the payment. I have his IP address when he offered me the first job through Proz Message. However, as I heard from him when we were still communicating, he was in Mexico because he got some visa problems to come back to US for work. His work is somewhere in Dallas.
I also searched his email address on Google and came up with a CV of a German translator who has worked for him. I emailed her asking for assistance in case she knew something about him but haven't heard from her.
The Google search also led me to some discussion forums but they are all in Spanish and his profile on those forums is blank. Ah, I have followed him on LinkedIn and noticed that 2 days ago he had a new connection. It means he was online 2 days ago but never replied to my Skype message or email, which is strange because he always appeared to be nice and replied to every message of mine.
By the way, the first payment he made was through xoom.com and it is in Spanish so I'm not sure if I can get anything from this.
Val,
I'm kind of cautious when working with clients as well though I work with foreign clients most of the time. I become cautious when someone offers me a job from a gmail or yahoo mail or something like that. For Proz clients, I always check his/her profile to see whether I should accept the offer or not.
This is the worst experience ever in my freelance career.
If he's reading this thread, he'd better watch out, because clearly, you're on his case!
Keep going.... And keep reporting back here!
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 05:23
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Private clients aren't necessarily a problem, nor are foreign ones | Sep 30, 2014 |
Val R. wrote:
To be honest, I never accept any work from private clients, especially if they are based overseas. If they represent a company, I make sure I get all the company details first. I have always thought I am over-cautious and I might be wrong to decline work from clients who are based outside the UK. If the clients are based in the UK I know what to do and where to go to get my money. But who can offer us the protection we need in cases like this, I fail to understand. I do hope you will get your money. In my view it is just a matter of luck, and it is sad.
Actually, there are some benefits to working with private clients:
- they are quite used to the idea of paying at least a percentage up-front, and the remainder very quickly. Companies expect to pay on account, and normally on 30 days terms, or longer if you accept that.
- they rarely go bankrupt.
- they rarely change their name, or country, or...
Working with clients in another country (private or companies) can create problems if they don't pay, but only if they don't pay. Normally, with strict risk management measures in place one can avoid getting into relationships with clients who aren't going to pay, or one can at least keep the outstanding debt to a minimum. Of course, I said "normally"! But then, hos easy is it to get money out of a non-paying client in your own country? Especially if you live in a big country (personally, I'd have to get on a plane to knock on the door of a client in mainland Spain and I doubt that would be viable).
| | | | Yolanda Broad
United States
Local time: 00:23
Member (2000)
French to English
+ ...
MODERATOR | Any user registered on ProZ.com can create a Blue Board record | Sep 30, 2014 |
I'm following up on Natalie's recommendation to create a Blue Board record. The outsourcer (whoever hired you) does not need to have a profile on ProZ.com for you to create a Blue Board record. The purpose of the Blue Board is to share our job experiences, as bilingual specialists, with our fellow specialists, no matter who hired us.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 05:23
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| You don't have much to go on, I'm afraid | Sep 30, 2014 |
Thanh Nguyen Thai wrote:
I received a job offer via Proz about 6 months ago. He was an unregistered member. The project was rather large and worth $1,000.
What checking did you do at that time? Who did you address the invoice to? I'm not asking for his name (please don't give that), but all my invoices are made out in the name of a person or a company, with postal address, even though I always send them by email. I believe that information is required by law in Spain, but I don't know about your jurisdiction.
then next project came. The total amount due is around $750. It was invoiced 5 months ago
I did not mention about the payment until the day I wanted to buy something online
You left the amount unpaid for 5 months? What were the payment terms? Did you not think you should send a reminder? When the day came that you needed the money, did you send a request for immediate payment? Maybe that came as a complete shock to him, and he didn't have the money. Perhaps he thought he had paid you already (I was sure I'd asked Skrill for a withdrawal a month ago but apparently I never hit the very last "confirm" button and the money never went anywhere!).
What should I do now? Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
To be honest, I don't know what you can do. You don't even know which country he lives in, let alone his address. So you can't even send an official final reminder; you can't take him to court; it would be exorbitant to hire a private investigator to track him down...
I can only suggest you try to contact him by whatever means you can, including via his LinkedIn profile. Don't rely on one email address as that may have been blocked/sabotaged, whatever.
| | | | Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Sheila is right | Sep 30, 2014 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Actually, there are some benefits to working with private clients:
- they are quite used to the idea of paying at least a percentage up-front, and the remainder very quickly. Companies expect to pay on account, and normally on 30 days terms, or longer if you accept that.
- they rarely go bankrupt.
- they rarely change their name, or country, or...
You're right about these things. He did advance me USD200 via Paypal and paid the full amount immediately after project completion via wire transfer, and I then refunded the PayPal payment to him.
He doesn't change his name, but sadly, all I got is just his name, email address, Skype ID, and nothing else
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Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, Il'll try this | Sep 30, 2014 |
Yolanda Broad wrote:
I'm following up on Natalie's recommendation to create a Blue Board record. The outsourcer (whoever hired you) does not need to have a profile on ProZ.com for you to create a Blue Board record. The purpose of the Blue Board is to share our job experiences, as bilingual specialists, with our fellow specialists, no matter who hired us.
I've never known this! Maybe I will try some other ways to contact him before using this. Thanks for your suggestion!
| | | | | Legit Clients online | Oct 1, 2014 |
It so sad to see situations like this. A hard earned money was not give to someone who deserves it. I guess, we should be more cautious of the transactions we make and ensure that clients we meet online (or wherever)should be legit.
| | | | Tiffany Le
Canada
Local time: 21:23
Member
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi guys,
I got updates for this situation. Thanks you all for following.
So the client has come back and talked to me. He has Skype problems and replied to my offline messages when he was online again. I thought he appeared offline while still staying connected. I checked this and found out that he was actually offline. Of course, I checked this before he got back to me.
He explained to me the reason for not yet paying me was that he got visa problem and was unable to come back... See more Hi guys,
I got updates for this situation. Thanks you all for following.
So the client has come back and talked to me. He has Skype problems and replied to my offline messages when he was online again. I thought he appeared offline while still staying connected. I checked this and found out that he was actually offline. Of course, I checked this before he got back to me.
He explained to me the reason for not yet paying me was that he got visa problem and was unable to come back to the US. In the meantime, he's now in Mexico, pushing the lawyer to speed things up. When he's outside the US, he cannot make transfer while his PayPal account does not have much money.
I have no clue at all, I just sense that he's not a bad guy. That's all!
Anyway, the payment hasn't been made.
I will keep you further posted on this.
Thank you all ▲ Collapse
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