| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Low rates for easy work? Thread poster: Phil Hand
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Phil Hand 
China
Local time: 18:34
Chinese to English
I still work with a British agency somewhat infamous on these boards. I have to negotiate my rate (higher than their "maximum") every time, so it's a hassle, but still worth it for the occasional job. But they also offer work at their lower rates, and sometimes that is worth it, too. Yesterday they had scanned invoices to translate. For a reasonable day's pay, I could translate three invoice formats, then just copy and paste multiple times, changing the numbers as I went. Dull work, but I made m... See more I still work with a British agency somewhat infamous on these boards. I have to negotiate my rate (higher than their "maximum") every time, so it's a hassle, but still worth it for the occasional job. But they also offer work at their lower rates, and sometimes that is worth it, too. Yesterday they had scanned invoices to translate. For a reasonable day's pay, I could translate three invoice formats, then just copy and paste multiple times, changing the numbers as I went. Dull work, but I made my daily target in time to pick up the kids from school.
What do you all think about accepting this kind of job? The word rate was low - not absurd, but 2/3 of my minimum, so not something I'd usually consider. I don't really want to encourage this kind of business. But for these particular documents, it was worth it.
Worth mentioning that there were many more invoices to do, but the others were all singles or doubles, so I couldn't leverage the volume. I didn't do those ones, just cherry-picked the best jobs out of the bunch. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 18:34
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| I don't have a problem | Dec 18, 2014 |
Not all words are created equal. If I charged $0.50 per word for, say, a specialized history essay on Medieval Europe and $0.05 per word for general texts (let's say gaming, which has been my primary source of work), I'll make more per hour on the $0.05 general text.
| | | | | If you've gone below your minimum, I'm afraid you have a new minimum | Dec 18, 2014 |
I'm not really in the habit of re-negotiating my rate each time. I have a rate I give to an agency and then I decide to accept or reject each project. Sometimes the work is easy, sometimes it's hard...it all balances out in my opinion. I might have a different approach for clients that send me more sporadic projects, but so far, this hasn't been the case.
That said, I do believe that we as translators should set our minimums and never go below it, no matter how easy the work is. A... See more I'm not really in the habit of re-negotiating my rate each time. I have a rate I give to an agency and then I decide to accept or reject each project. Sometimes the work is easy, sometimes it's hard...it all balances out in my opinion. I might have a different approach for clients that send me more sporadic projects, but so far, this hasn't been the case.
That said, I do believe that we as translators should set our minimums and never go below it, no matter how easy the work is. A divorce attorney wouldn't charge less because he's processed a hundred irreconcilable differences cases and knows just what to do to churn it out quickly. My minimum is my minimum, period. Extremely easy work still requires me to load my files into my CAT tool, perform the QA checks, issue an invoice, chase up the invoice if it goes unpaid, etc.
Recently a client of mine sent me an email stating there would be several hundreds of thousands of words over the course of the next few months written for a general audience at a rate that was 23% below our agreed rate and they wanted to know my availability. I replied that I am available as usual, at the rate we already agreed on. The work is still coming in.
[Edited at 2014-12-18 05:40 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 13:34
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Cab Ride in Izmir | Dec 18, 2014 |
Tiffany Hardy wrote:
That said, I do believe that we as translators should set our minimums and never go below it, no matter how easy the work is. A divorce attorney wouldn't charge less because he's processed a hundred irreconcilable differences cases and knows just what to do to churn it out quickly. My minimum is my minimum, period.
I agree. I do not go below my minimum rate at all. This is the rate I determined after some analysis and hard thought. If I go below this minimum, I would not be doing myself any good at all.
Suppose you get into a cab in Izmir Turkey, and tell the cab driver where you want to go. The driver puts the car into gear and starts driving. As a passenger/customer, you realize that there is no traffic, and it is a fairly easy ride for the driver. You reach where you intend to go. You tell the cab driver that this was a pretty easy ride for him, and therefore, you would like to pay him less than the meter. What do you think the driver would tell you?
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| When I read "easy"... | Dec 18, 2014 |
... I run for my life.
I understand that some customers find it "easy" to send all the work to the same translator, both "easy" and "difficult". Shouldn't they have a cheap translator for their "easy" work and a more skilled but more expensive translator for "difficult" work?
For quite some years now, when I read "easy" from a new or occasional customer, I reply that I am "busy" and let the work go to another translator who likes "easy" work and accepts a lower rate.... See more ... I run for my life.
I understand that some customers find it "easy" to send all the work to the same translator, both "easy" and "difficult". Shouldn't they have a cheap translator for their "easy" work and a more skilled but more expensive translator for "difficult" work?
For quite some years now, when I read "easy" from a new or occasional customer, I reply that I am "busy" and let the work go to another translator who likes "easy" work and accepts a lower rate.
[Edited at 2014-12-18 06:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 18:34
Chinese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Easy is my judgment, not theirs | Dec 18, 2014 |
Tomas, I agree completely that when a client tells you work is "easy," the word carries no informational content, and simply means "I want a lower rate."
But some work genuinely is easy. We all know that we can get through some pieces faster than others. This job paid a low rate, but I made as much money on it as a normal job because I was able to work faster, because of the nature of the document - which I assessed myself.
I'm no stranger to tough texts - my profile ... See more Tomas, I agree completely that when a client tells you work is "easy," the word carries no informational content, and simply means "I want a lower rate."
But some work genuinely is easy. We all know that we can get through some pieces faster than others. This job paid a low rate, but I made as much money on it as a normal job because I was able to work faster, because of the nature of the document - which I assessed myself.
I'm no stranger to tough texts - my profile says "I specialize in academic papers, conceptually complex and technical texts", and I do. But there are days when earning $$$$ by typing in lots of questionnaire responses is just fine by me! ▲ Collapse
| | | | David Wright
Austria
Local time: 12:34
German to English
+ ...
| Given that so much was repeated text ... | Dec 18, 2014 |
... I would regard this as a fairly well-paid job. If I'm pasting and copying most of the time, I usually give the client a (substantial) reduction. Given the starting price was low, I wouldn't do that here, but I certainly wouldn't see this a going below my minimum rate.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:34
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Some taxis charge by time as well as distance | Dec 18, 2014 |
As a newcomer to this industry it is fascinating to observe reponses to the rate question. For me the equivalent hourly rate (EHR) is what matters.
lIf I get a job that pays $1 per character but is so complex that I only manage a hundred words in an eight-hour day, I have only made $100 so my EHR is only $12.50. With quarter of a century of high-level knowledge-work behind me I would be hoping to make rather more than that.
On the other hand, if I get a job that pays $... See more As a newcomer to this industry it is fascinating to observe reponses to the rate question. For me the equivalent hourly rate (EHR) is what matters.
lIf I get a job that pays $1 per character but is so complex that I only manage a hundred words in an eight-hour day, I have only made $100 so my EHR is only $12.50. With quarter of a century of high-level knowledge-work behind me I would be hoping to make rather more than that.
On the other hand, if I get a job that pays $0.05 per character but is so straightforward that I can breeze through a thousand characters in an hour, my EHR is $50 despite the low rate. I assume that this latter situation is what Phil experienced today.
Tiffany's point about a "new minimum" is worth considering, but given that Phil already has to negotiate with this agency every time he accepts a job, I don't see that it does any harm in this case. On the contrary, Phil has broadened his reach, put food on the table for his family and finished in time for the school run. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Dan ▲ Collapse
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| everyone happy = good | Dec 18, 2014 |
You got an (hourly) rate that you're happy with and they paid a rate they're happy with for a translation they're happy with. Where is the problem?
In terms of the general issue involved, I usually just charge an hourly rate for any work where a rate per word doesn't make sense.
| | | | | i do not think it is a good idea to go below a certain minimum that you set | Dec 18, 2014 |
for yourself--no matter what, because then some agencies may start trying to claim that all their jobs are very easy.
As to hourly rates--not really such a good idea since you may occasionally get stuck on one paragraph for an hour or more, and most agencies do not understand it. For them 2,000 words may amount to eight hours--not a minute more. Sometimes it hard to predict exactly how long the translation will take
[Edited at 2014-12-18 09:34 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post. | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:34
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Per-word versus per-job minimums | Dec 18, 2014 |
Tiffany Hardy wrote:
I do believe that we as translators should set our minimums and never go below it, no matter how easy the work is.
The further your actual per-word rate is from your ideal per-word rate, the riskier it is. So a minimum per-word rate is nothing more than a "safe" rate with the smallest possible margin of error built into it. But... per-word rates are always based on *assumed* averages, and if you get a job in which the averages are not assumed but actually quite certain, then you can safely set a rate even lower, because you know that you're "safe", i.e. you'll still get your targeted remuneration per hour.
Extremely easy work still requires me to load my files into my CAT tool, perform the QA checks, issue an invoice, chase up the invoice if it goes unpaid, etc.
Yes, but that is what the per-job minimum fee is for. It shouldn't affect the per-word rate.
Lincoln Hui wrote:
Not all words are created equal. If I charged $0.50 per word for, say, a specialized history essay on Medieval Europe and $0.05 per word for general texts ... , I'll make more per hour on the $0.05 general text.
The best response in this thread yet.
[Edited at 2014-12-18 09:59 GMT]
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| Word price vs hourly rate | Dec 18, 2014 |
It might be that the word price is very low, below the minimum, but the hourly rate still works very good.
For example, 10.000 words of product descriptions where 70% of the job just consist in changing colour and size of the garment. Or reviews written by consumers on one and the same topic are often done very quickly in comparison to an academic text.
However, I am very weary if the client describes it as easy text (e.g. an easy contract).
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There is one particular agency I work for that sends me all kinds projects - their rate is rather lowish and I have not been successful in negotiating a higher rate. I reject probably 90% of the projects they send me, and they always come back with more.
This agency does offer me a few long-term projects from end clients where I find the subject matter extremely easy, so I am happy to say yes to those. The work goes really fast, I have tons of matches in my TM, and there are repeti... See more There is one particular agency I work for that sends me all kinds projects - their rate is rather lowish and I have not been successful in negotiating a higher rate. I reject probably 90% of the projects they send me, and they always come back with more.
This agency does offer me a few long-term projects from end clients where I find the subject matter extremely easy, so I am happy to say yes to those. The work goes really fast, I have tons of matches in my TM, and there are repetitions (and no discount requested for the reps).
So yes, it does come down to my hourly rate - I don't mind working for a lower rate, when it's on my terms, when I have time, and when the subject matter is easy. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:34
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Just make it crystal clear to the client | Dec 18, 2014 |
Phil Hand wrote:
What do you all think about accepting this kind of job? The word rate was low - not absurd, but 2/3 of my minimum, so not something I'd usually consider. I don't really want to encourage this kind of business. But for these particular documents, it was worth it.
I feel the same way, Phil. You don't want to encourage agencies to think low rates are EVER acceptable, but neither do you want to cut off your nose to spite your face. You got what you wanted out of the deal, after all.
I'd have accepted the job, too. But I'd have made it crystal clear in my acceptance email that this rate was acceptable for THIS job, and ONLY this job. I'd feel it important to have that in black and white, to refer them to when they next send a very complicated job for the same rate and feign surprise at a refusal based on the too-low rate.
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