| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Dwindling rates Thread poster: Ayano Murofushi-Arno
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Richard Foulkes (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:40
German to English
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Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Thanks for the statistics! True, maybe inflation is not be best argument at the moment, but not having raised rates in 4 years is one.
You're welcome! It is an argument for you to seek to increase your rates but not an argument for clients to accept them of course. If they can find 1,000 translators in your combination on proz willing to accept lower rates for similar quality, that's an argument for them to freeze or lower rates (they have utility bills too, and more besides). That's a free market economy for you!
Of course, like you, we should always be seeking to improve our rates and our skills to justify them.
Somebody made a great point earlier about the lack of business skills in translation. Looking back, it was sadly lacking from my MA and I only gained any knowledge of business and economics by changing career (temporarily!).
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 15:40
Member (2009)
English to German
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Tom in London wrote: Ayano Murofushi-Arno wrote:
I have just come back to work from my maternity leave (I had 10 months off) and two of my clients have asked me to reduce my rates
Don't do it. Tell them you won't do it, implying that they can get lost, take a walk off a cliff, etc. If they liked your work, they'll be back. If not, you're well rid of them. I've always found that if I have the cohones to say "no" to a client who wants a reduction, 10 minutes later they come back and say OK.
I agree with Tom. If you agree to work for these lower rates - and do keep in mind the PayPal or bank fees that are bound to reduce your actual income even more - and decide to stay with these clients, then be assured that it won't be too long before they will offer you jobs at an even lower rate. (To show their "appreciation" of you and your work?)
This would put you in the situation that you'll either accept the even lower rates offered, or walk away from these agencies. Then you will surely be wondering why you haven't taken that "particular walk" when they first tried to increase their profits by forcing ridiculously low rates on you after your return.
On a happier note: congratulations on your new baby!
[Edited at 2015-03-06 10:33 GMT]
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I have made this experience a couple of times! If you are cheap and don't stand up for yourself and your business then clients see you as a push-over and they keep pushing and treating you accordingly.
For my own sanity I have decided to not go below a certain rate (below which I would feel exploited), I made up my own rules (with the help of this forum) and I stick to them. I have found a couple of clients coming back to me after demanding hideous things and treating me with a bit ... See more I have made this experience a couple of times! If you are cheap and don't stand up for yourself and your business then clients see you as a push-over and they keep pushing and treating you accordingly.
For my own sanity I have decided to not go below a certain rate (below which I would feel exploited), I made up my own rules (with the help of this forum) and I stick to them. I have found a couple of clients coming back to me after demanding hideous things and treating me with a bit more respect. ▲ Collapse
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IrimiConsulting wrote:
Lowering rates is not bullying. It's just business. .
If the client is nice, pays in time, communicates well et cetera, I advise you to argue your case. You have to tell them what you can add, which few or nobody else can. Some points that have worked well for me:
- Does the client have routines or workflows which takes some time to get the hang of? In my experience most have -- forms to fill, special filenames to use, special FTP folders, notifications and so on. If so, remind them that introducing a new translator to these routines will take time and effort from their side, and probably cause errors which they will need to fix.
- Are there major end clients or text types that you handle well, or certain subject areas or client terminology that you have learned over time? If so, remind the client that introducing new or less experienced translators will lower the quality, make the client unhappy and possible require lower rates from the end client. Worst case scenario: they lose a client. That could be worth a lot.
- Get some inside sponsors. Ask one or a few PMs which you work well with to confirm your quality, flexibility, subject area knowledge, friendliness and general skillset. They are not interested in low rates -- they are interested in smooth cooperations with you the translator. They usually want things to work as they always have (take it from me, I have been a translation PM as well).
- If your track record is good, remind them. Remind them of all those times you saved their a**es by accepting late and tightly planned projects, worked weekends, exceeded expectations during delivery, got encouraging comments from the end client and how the PMs just love working with you.
Over and above, the first rule of negotiations is to always take if you give and give if you take. If the client wants to lower the rates, demand something in return that you find worthwhile. Every economist knows this, but preciously few translators do (we are not trained negotiators). The client knows this too and doesn't expect to lower rates without giving something.
Also, it's usually easier for the client to accept a proposal rather than to think of something themselves. If you are offered a lower rate, suggest something real and practical in return. Adjusted fuzzy matching scheme perhaps (if you use CAT tools)? Higher minimum charge? There are as many possibilites as there are clients.
In short: Prove your worth, and then flaunt it.
Well said. Thanks for all the tips!
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 19:10
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | Japan has not been doing too well for a long time now | Mar 7, 2015 |
You will have to keep in mind your main target area, which is Japan. It is an economy that has been shrinking for years now. Which means clients there won't be paying much to businesses wanting to sell there, as it is a depressed economy.
Further, Japan is facing serious strategic threats from its large neighbour and might be forced to reconsider its military options, which would mean a lot of the money available in the economy would be sucked into military preparation. Even a war m... See more You will have to keep in mind your main target area, which is Japan. It is an economy that has been shrinking for years now. Which means clients there won't be paying much to businesses wanting to sell there, as it is a depressed economy.
Further, Japan is facing serious strategic threats from its large neighbour and might be forced to reconsider its military options, which would mean a lot of the money available in the economy would be sucked into military preparation. Even a war may be in the offing if someone misjudges - everything there seems to be on a hair trigger.
Further, except for the dollar, all other currencies have crashed in the last year or so. The dollar is strong and with the US economy on the revival path, it is likely to maintain its strong position for the next several months. This means, US exports, including services like translation, are going to be costly. I am not sure how good the pound is doing, but if it is holding strong against the dollar, then the situation is likely to be the same for UK agencies too.
So agencies in the US are facing the pinch too.
On the positive side, oil prices have crashed in the last ten months or so, and Japan is a major oil importer.
But overall, recession is the prevailing mood in Japan.
You will have to take this into account in your calculation.
I would suggest that you take an informed position on rates. Accept a slight reduction for now, and try to acquire clients who can pay more and gradually dump the low-end payers. This way you will be able to maintain a good cash flow and pace out your adjustments in a manner that would not be too disruptive.
Also take into account that you are coming back after a ten-month break, and your clients are justified in being sceptical about your ability to perform at your former levels of efficiency. You will have to reassure them on this count, before demanding rates that you were accustomed to earlier. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:40
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| The mood in Japan is improving, if anything | Mar 7, 2015 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
But overall, recession is the prevailing mood in Japan.
You will have to take this into account in your calculation.
I don't think this is an accurate summary of the situation today. Three years ago it may have been. While the jury is still out on Abenomics the mood has definitely shifted towards the positive end of the spectrum.
Certainly there has been no material deterioration in economic sentiment over the 10-month period to which the original poster referred. In May 2014 - 10 months ago - the Nikkei 225 was trading at around 14,500 and it is a hair under 19,000 today. That's a 30% increase.
Regards
Dan
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Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Also take into account that you are coming back after a ten-month break, and your clients are justified in being sceptical about your ability to perform at your former levels of efficiency. You will have to reassure them on this count, before demanding rates that you were accustomed to earlier.
No they aren't. Why should a short period off work make any difference to someone's ability to do their job? I don't see any justification at all for this statement.
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Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Also take into account that you are coming back after a ten-month break, and your clients are justified in being sceptical about your ability to perform at your former levels of efficiency. You will have to reassure them on this count, before demanding rates that you were accustomed to earlier.
OP, please do not believe that!
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Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Also take into account that you are coming back after a ten-month break, and your clients are justified in being sceptical about your ability to perform at your former levels of efficiency. You will have to reassure them on this count, before demanding rates that you were accustomed to earlier.
I absolutely disagree with the statement.
However, regardless of whether you believe that a ten-month break will have a negative impact on your efficiency, this is a moot issue when it comes to freelancers.
The only thing that a provider has to do is exactly that: provide. How "efficiently" he or she does so is no concern of the client's as long as the delivery is as agreed.
It's actually none of the client's business why the provider was off work for ten months, unless this information was shared, and any speculations about efficiency are extraneous to the relationship, to say the least.
The client orders and the provider provides.
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I would suggest that you take an informed position on rates. Accept a slight reduction for now, and try to acquire clients who can pay more and gradually dump the low-end payers. This way you will be able to maintain a good cash flow and pace out your adjustments in a manner that would not be too disruptive.
This I agree with. My response would be to say that I would consider projects at a lower rate on a case-by-case basis, then simply go out and find new clients that are willing to pay my standard rates.
While you build your portfolio of new clients, you can fill in any open spots on your agenda with small jobs from the old agency. Eventually, you will have no time for them, and at that point you can let them know you've returned to your former rate (or a bit more...why not? As they'll no longer be a major client, you can afford to lose them).
If your relationship with this client has been positive other than the rate reduction request, I would not burn any bridges until I found another way to cross the river.
[Edited at 2015-03-07 17:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-03-07 17:45 GMT]
| | | | | Deflation is not a problem in my part of Europe. | Mar 7, 2015 |
Thomas Frost wrote:
In fact, parts of Europe are in deflation ...
Not in my part of it Mr Frost.
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Richard Bartholomew wrote: Thomas Frost wrote:
In fact, parts of Europe are in deflation ... Not in my part of it Mr Frost.
"Parts of Europe" means just that: some of Europe is in deflation some of the time, some is not. It does not mean that all of Europe is in deflation all the time. Each person can check if the place he or she lives is concerned or not. It is not because you are not concerned that nobody is concerned. Conditions are not the same everywhere.
| | | | Richard Foulkes (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:40
German to English
+ ...
| Germany and deflation | Mar 7, 2015 |
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/inflation-cpi
Germany entered deflation in Jan but returned to a whopping 0.09% positive annualised inflation in Feb. We can split hairs over deflation but the fact is there is effectively no price growth and the overall trend is downwards, which is among the reasons the ECB has just started printing €60bn a month.
H... See more http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/inflation-cpi
Germany entered deflation in Jan but returned to a whopping 0.09% positive annualised inflation in Feb. We can split hairs over deflation but the fact is there is effectively no price growth and the overall trend is downwards, which is among the reasons the ECB has just started printing €60bn a month.
Here is the change in producer prices, which lead consumer prices. See if you can guess what the trend is before you have a peek!
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/producer-prices-change ▲ Collapse
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 19:10
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | The reason for your optimism | Mar 8, 2015 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
But overall, recession is the prevailing mood in Japan.
You will have to take this into account in your calculation. I don't think this is an accurate summary of the situation today. Three years ago it may have been. While the jury is still out on Abenomics the mood has definitely shifted towards the positive end of the spectrum. Certainly there has been no material deterioration in economic sentiment over the 10-month period to which the original poster referred. In May 2014 - 10 months ago - the Nikkei 225 was trading at around 14,500 and it is a hair under 19,000 today. That's a 30% increase. Regards Dan
Dan, one reason for your optimism could be the language direction you work in, which is the opposite of the OP's,
While Japan needs to sell its products in the outside world to get over its recession, which would generate a lot of work for you as a Japanese to English translator, the same cannot be said for companies wanting to sell in Japan, as Japan is still not fully out of recession, and is unlikely to be in a hurry, and therefore, it won't generate too much work for someone like OP, who works from English to Japanese.
And therefore, advising her to be inflexible on her rates, is in my opinion, the wrong advice.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 19:10
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | For various reasons | Mar 8, 2015 |
Rachel Waddington wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Also take into account that you are coming back after a ten-month break, and your clients are justified in being sceptical about your ability to perform at your former levels of efficiency. You will have to reassure them on this count, before demanding rates that you were accustomed to earlier. No they aren't. Why should a short period off work make any difference to someone's ability to do their job? I don't see any justification at all for this statement.
First of all, ten months is not a short period, it is almost a full year. It is highly unlikely that her clients would have kept on hold all English to Japanese work she was doing for that long, waiting for her to come back and claim them. They would have found other English to Japanese translators, who could be equally good and even cheaper, as someone in this thread has pointed out. To force these lost clients to come back to her, she would have to provide additional incentive, such as on the price front. It is almost as bad as starting afresh.
Further, she now has to look after a new infant, which I, having fathered and looked after two children myself, know is an extremely demanding and full-time occupation, especially for the mother. It brings with it emotional changes (due to hormonal changes in the body) and can affect professional concentration, as priorities would have altered drastically now, with the child assuming primary importance. Motherhood could have also had a physical effect on the OP leaving her much diminished in stamina, and thus with a reduced capacity for sustained work, which could affect her reliability from the point of view of the client.
Even if her clients don't know the real reason for the 10-month leave, the above realities don't go away for the OP.
It is all very well to reiterate the general idea of sticking to one's rates come hell or high water, but to make our businesses successful we also need to be pragmatic.
It is easier and pleasanter to give one the advice one would like to hear, but it is usually more helpful, eventually, to spell out the blunt reality, as it helps in keeping at bay illusions and in taking correct decisions.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 19:10
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Diversification may be an option for you | Mar 8, 2015 |
I notice that you mainly work in the narrow field of game localization. This in my view is a bit risky, as you can become vulnerable to ups and downs in this specialist field.
Your other major fields are interpretation and magazine interviews. I think you should diversify even further.
Another option for you to consider is to start offering services in the reverse direction Japanese to English. A vaster field of opportunity exists in this arena which you can tap into, p... See more I notice that you mainly work in the narrow field of game localization. This in my view is a bit risky, as you can become vulnerable to ups and downs in this specialist field.
Your other major fields are interpretation and magazine interviews. I think you should diversify even further.
Another option for you to consider is to start offering services in the reverse direction Japanese to English. A vaster field of opportunity exists in this arena which you can tap into, provided you are not too caught up in the dogma of native-only. Judging from your posts you write clear and elegant English and should be in a great position to carve out a new niche for yourself as a Japanese to English translator. In this way, you will have two reliable income streams. ▲ Collapse
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