| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | 0.07USD a word: Where does this sit, really?! Thread poster: Inspectress (X)
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Inga Petkelyte 
Portugal
Local time: 13:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
| Not reliable | Sep 27, 2015 |
Teresa Borges wrote: According to the community rates it should be standard €0.12/wd and minimum €0.09/wd. See http://search.proz.com/?sp=pfe/rates [Edited at 2015-09-25 13:10 GMT]
To my both earlier and very recent observation, the community rates do not reflect the reality, not in some language combinations.
There was a thread here inititaed by a Romanian translator not so long ago; she wondered exactly about this discrepance.
And as an example English to Lithuanian, not my main pair (again) because of the rates:
the community rates tell it is €0.08/wd standard and €0.06/wd low. In reality, the rates practised (N.B.: not just offered!) by well established Lithuanian agencies is 5,5 to 7 euros per page (cerca 300 words) for skilled translators with specific expertise. Now do the maths how much it is per word: two or three times lesser than the community rate.
A UK agency, neither an intermediary, was more generous: 0,03 GBP per word for legal, finance, scientific translations.
I can go on and on with evidence, like 0,04 eur/wd for aviation translators, it doesn't change anything. And when I'm talking about evidence it's far from picking the worst cases. Just current reality.
Now Portugal: not a cheap country at all. Dining out and wine - yes, very modestly priced. Everything besides that - equal or more expensive than in countries with signifiantly higher earnings.
Couple years ago, I partcipated in a workshop about he translation market in Portugal. The lecturer, after having been asked several times, revealed that Portuguese translators in Portugal on average earn 6000 euros. Per annum. Gross.
| | | | | Fresh sample of an offered rate EN>IT | Sep 27, 2015 |
Dear all,
passioning and neverending topic.
I try since my first job to understand what is the "right" rate, not to:
- become rich (and not too poor);
- stay on the market;
- not to sell off OUR professionalism.
I'm an experienced translator, skilled and referenced, specialised in some areas in which I ask and obtain better rates, but not rejecting generic translations, for lower rates.
Last night (3:00 a.m. GMT + 2), I receive from U.S. ... See more Dear all,
passioning and neverending topic.
I try since my first job to understand what is the "right" rate, not to:
- become rich (and not too poor);
- stay on the market;
- not to sell off OUR professionalism.
I'm an experienced translator, skilled and referenced, specialised in some areas in which I ask and obtain better rates, but not rejecting generic translations, for lower rates.
Last night (3:00 a.m. GMT + 2), I receive from U.S. a request for a translation.
I answer in 5 minutes, specifying that "The rates for the required translation would depend from the nature of the text, and the urgency of the deadline."
I leave available for a free (of course) quote, on the text or, at least, a sample of the required text.
I receive, a couple of hours later (other translators contacted? refusing?) the following message: after formal expression, "Our rate is $0,03 per word. Waiting for your confirmation."
"Sorry, XXX, I'm sure you can understand that it’s a rate I can’t accept."
Not because I don't need to work, not because I don't love to translate, I even do it for free, to study, to communicate, to learn more about my areas.
Not because I'm a skilled and referenced translator, not for me.
But because if all of us could tell these agencies that NO, that 0,03 euro for word is the payment maybe to copy and paste the google translation, and I just want to let you know that translators don't do this, translators have studied many years and study, translators allow communication after Babel, translators avoid dangerous misunderstanding between cultures...
This I should tell these agencies, and every translator.
I wish you can say NO, I wish you can earn better and not to be obliged to accept to sell off our competences, or it will be impossible to save our work, there won't be ANY DIFFERENCE between my translation and a "google" one. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| How much work do you need? | Sep 27, 2015 |
1) I receive far more unsolicited 'offers' of work for below my normal rate - many of them far, far below - than I do for an acceptable rate. Maybe 10 times as many.
2) I only get notified of public job posts (from ProZ.com and a couple of similar sites) that are in my specialist areas. Nevertheless, I only spend a couple of seconds on 90% of them before pressing the "X" button.
So yes, I agree that the most common rate is very low. However, I'm getting as much work at my desired rat... See more 1) I receive far more unsolicited 'offers' of work for below my normal rate - many of them far, far below - than I do for an acceptable rate. Maybe 10 times as many.
2) I only get notified of public job posts (from ProZ.com and a couple of similar sites) that are in my specialist areas. Nevertheless, I only spend a couple of seconds on 90% of them before pressing the "X" button.
So yes, I agree that the most common rate is very low. However, I'm getting as much work at my desired rate as I can cope with. Admittedly, I don't work full-time, but if I did then I'd be putting more effort into marketing and actively sourcing work. I'm confident that I could find full-time work without compromising my rate.
So, the truth as I see it is that the majority of clients want us to work for stupidly low rates. However, each freelance translator can only handle a very few thousand words a day, and there's enough work out there in each specialist area of each language pair, at a higher rate, to provide that much work, IMHO. Of course, there are limits and I dare say if I charged say €0.20 per word then I'd struggle to find enough clients (although maybe not - I haven't tried). As it is, I charge the 'average' in my pair according to the ProZ.com community rates, and my rate is only negotiable on my terms - basically, if it makes good business sense to accept less then I'll consider it, but not otherwise.
You can charge considerably less if you want. It's up to each and every freelancer to position themselves in the market as they see fit. And if you have to put food on the table then it may make sense to lower your rate for work that is either very simple (after all, it's your per-hour rate that really counts), or will be very useful experience and impress future clients. But leave enough time free to look for better-paid jobs. Once you take on so much low-paid work that you have no time for training, networking, active marketing or even chasing payments then you're on a very slippery slope.
This is why new translators are normally advised to have some savings to live on, or a part-time unskilled job for a small but steady income, when they start out. You may be better off refusing a high proportion of jobs, even if it's a very precarious and daunting way to start. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Joakim Braun
Sweden
Local time: 14:59
German to Swedish
+ ...
KateKaminski wrote:
Why would using a CAT tool make a translation worse?
Surely it can only help, especially with technical texts where terminology can play a major part.
I assure you that's not the case with all translators.
I have seen their texts...
Also, remember that a lot of supplied TMs are full of garbage.
[Bearbeitet am 2015-09-27 18:15 GMT]
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Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 08:59
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| It seems as though the companies offering very low rates... | Sep 27, 2015 |
... are often astonished and speechless when you ask them what the document is about (as though this were the very first time anyone had ever asked them this question).
Many times it is "we don't have the actual document yet, we just need a price quote", leading me to believe that many "translators" quote prices and bid on (and accept) jobs for which they are unqualified to do.
It seems as though the cost of translation is not based on what clients are willing to pay, b... See more ... are often astonished and speechless when you ask them what the document is about (as though this were the very first time anyone had ever asked them this question).
Many times it is "we don't have the actual document yet, we just need a price quote", leading me to believe that many "translators" quote prices and bid on (and accept) jobs for which they are unqualified to do.
It seems as though the cost of translation is not based on what clients are willing to pay, but rather on how low desperate translators are willing to go.
[Edited at 2015-09-27 20:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 13:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Do any of you agree to that? | Sep 28, 2015 |
Does anyone really let agency clients dictate the way you work?
- You will/will not use XXX paper dictionary
- You will/will not use a certain make of computer
- You will/will not use a particular search engine or browser
...
The list is endless. All may seem perfectly logical to the agency if they have encountered a specific problem once in their lives, but are they logical to us? Not only are they illogical, they represent totally unacceptable interference ... See more Does anyone really let agency clients dictate the way you work?
- You will/will not use XXX paper dictionary
- You will/will not use a certain make of computer
- You will/will not use a particular search engine or browser
...
The list is endless. All may seem perfectly logical to the agency if they have encountered a specific problem once in their lives, but are they logical to us? Not only are they illogical, they represent totally unacceptable interference in what should be our decisions.
Yes, if the method used impacts on the deliverable, they have a valid reason to request a different method. For instance, your office may be next to the agency, so you could take round a piece of paper, but this would be less than 100% useful if their client is halfway around the world. But using/not using a CAT tool has no bearing on the deliverable if they only ask to receive the translated text.
How long will it be before they start telling you (I'm using 'you' in a general way here ) when to start and stop work, when and how long to stop for breaks, what you should be wearing...? Will you obey those rules too? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 13:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
It seems as though the cost of translation is not based on what clients are willing to pay, but rather on how low desperate translators are willing to go.
[Edited at 2015-09-27 20:43 GMT]
True. And I wouldn't dare to blame those translators for being desperate: afterall, we don't know their situation, maybe those cents make diffrenece in their lives. Neither we know what is the purchase power in their countries/regions - maybe it's not desperation at all?
Today I received an order, from EU-based agency: an urgent translation, engineering, various pages of tables, due in several hours. 0,02 eu/word. I don't fancy being harsh, but I had to decline.
There are pro bono translations and there are boundaries in business that shouldn't be transgressed.
| | | | | Actually, I DO blame desperate translators for lowering the bar | Sep 28, 2015 |
And I say this because there are always other options if you are REALLY desperate. There are plenty of 9-to-5 jobs (not related to translation) that can provide at least a basic income so you can make ends meet, then you won't be too desperate to sell off your professional skills, which in the end is harmful for your colleagues and even for your own future career.
We have studied a lot, we have made sacrifices to build up a professional profile, maybe we have specialized in certain... See more And I say this because there are always other options if you are REALLY desperate. There are plenty of 9-to-5 jobs (not related to translation) that can provide at least a basic income so you can make ends meet, then you won't be too desperate to sell off your professional skills, which in the end is harmful for your colleagues and even for your own future career.
We have studied a lot, we have made sacrifices to build up a professional profile, maybe we have specialized in certain areas, or invested in some CAT tools, and have we done all of this just "to make ends meet"? NO! I refuse to accept that. All this hard work must be to make a GOOD living out of our profession.
Personally, I have decided to act as a professional, and I will only translate if I can do it for a fair rate. Otherwise, I'm not translating at all and I'd rather keep my job as an administrative employee, even if I don't really like it. I'd love to quit this job and dedicate all my time to translation, but I can't do it just 'out of love' accepting any rate, that would be called unfair competition, something unethical and disrespectful towards my colleagues who actually make their living out of this.
So we ARE to blame for setting the bar too low when we accept low rates. Even if USD 0.05 is good money in certain countries, as professionals we should have international standards and stick to the rates generally accepted among translators for your language pair, like the ones on ProZ. If you wish and it works for you, you can use a lower rate for a local client when you have a direct relationship, but never for international agencies. ▲ Collapse
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| Sheila has a good point | Sep 28, 2015 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Does anyone really let agency clients dictate the way you work?
- You will/will not use XXX paper dictionary
- You will/will not use a certain make of computer
- You will/will not use a particular search engine or browser
...
YES. I totally agree!
And it has a lot to do with a wrong mindset. That is the first thing we should change: We are NOT job seekers, we are service providers.
If we have our mind set as jobseekers, the scenario you describe will be perfectly normal, because we perceive the client as a BOSS.
On the contrary, as service providers WE set the rates, WE decide how and when to work late, WE decide to offer some discounts to certain clients, WE decide to make some exceptions, but the client can never tell us how to do OUR job.
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 13:59
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
| Is that always so? | Sep 28, 2015 |
Romix wrote:
There are plenty of 9-to-5 jobs (not related to translation) that can provide at least a basic income so you can make ends meet, ...
Let's do simple maths here, please do correct me if I get mistaken:
Let's take those earlier mentioned 0,02 eur/word. Awful. Shameful. Destructive - ain't it?
Let's now take an average daily output 2000 words. Most of us do more than that, yet let's give a discount on this, for your nerve sake.
So what do we get?
0,02 x 2000 = 40 euros a day > 40 x 5 = 200 euros a week > 200 x 4 = 800 euros in 4 weeks
800 euros in a month, no overtime, weekends for yourself and still several free extra days every month.
Is that really so bad and shameful?
Is it bad in a country with 300 euros for 9-to-5 job plus two hours for commuting?
Is it bad in another country, higher salary, but still just 505 euros/month?
Shall I mention the other 13 Memeber-States with minimal salaries lower than 800 eur/month?
We can blame here those people and rant over and over but moms can't feed their kids with solidarity for the peers. And believe me, there is no a EU country where 300 euros would cover the basic needs apart of the physical existance.
Does anyone here let go from hands a twice- or thrice-higher earnings for the sake of someone else's business ambitions and comfort? Hey, anyone?
International standards is utopia, at any angle of the actual reality. The profession itself has to be regulated in the first place and it is widely not.
There is a lot of the field work to be done at the local and inetranational level before turning to the standar rate question.
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Inspectress wrote:
Hi all,
I work in a niche language pair (English to Irish) as a freelance translator - I have another 'main' job so translation is a side earner for me, but it is something I really studied towards for a number of years.
I have recently received a couple of emails offering a rate of USD0.06 per word, and for other jobs it seems that if I quote over USD0.07 I won't get the gig. I recently agreed to a do an assignment for this rate of 0.07 purely because it was a large assignment and I needed the extra cash and I did it despite the deadline being incredibly tight and the document being of a quite technical nature.
I am just wondering if this rate is the reality on the ground for this and other language pairs?
I would have imagined that USD0.10 was the base rate.
Basically I am considering to just leave the industry as it isn't worth my while if this is going to be the going rate of pay, and on top of that to be expected to treat the assignments as urgent and operate in a very tight deadline for no extra monetary compensation.
I would love to hear what you guys have to say.
Offering an unusual language pair and being financially secure regardless of your earnings as a translator enables you to work for high rates, but it doesn't guarantee them. If I were you and I wanted to work for agencies, I would register with at least 5-10 agencies a week and offer to work for 0.12 EUR/ word until I was registered with at least 100+ solid-looking agencies.
Every now and then they are going to need you and come round and they are likely to be very happy to already have someone on their books.
If that doesn't bring in as much work as you'd like, register with more agencies and sink your rates to 0.10 EUR/ word. If it brings in too much work, then raise your rates to 0.13 EUR/ word.
And I agree with Inga and others that the unemployment rates, minimum wage and average salaries of typical source- and target-language countries probably has a large influence on rates. The minimum wage for a full-time job in Germany is 1500 EUR/ month (8.50 EUR/ hour) and that includes at least 4 or 5 weeks paid vacation, around 2 weeks of paid public holidays, paid sick days, etc. and substantial benefits in terms of employers' payments for health insurance and a retirement pension.
| | | | Roni_S
Slovakia
Local time: 14:59
Slovak to English
| minimum wage | Sep 29, 2015 |
Inga has a very good point. Not that I am encouraging translators to accept insultingly low rates, but as an example if you compare Inga's calculations of .02 per source word to the current minimum wage for a full-time job in Slovakia - which is 380 euros - then I think it's a no-brainer for most anyone. Sorry, but location does count, and not only in real estate
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| Minimum wage job? | Sep 29, 2015 |
englishpartner wrote: Inga has a very good point. Not that I am encouraging translators to accept insultingly low rates, but as an example if you compare Inga's calculations of .02 per source word to the current minimum wage for a full-time job in Slovakia - which is 380 euros - then I think it's a no-brainer for most anyone. Sorry, but location does count, and not only in real estate
Translating isn't supposed to be a minimum-wage job. Show me a lawyer or any professional business person (craftsman/woman) who works for minimum wage. You need to know your/what you are worth.
Don't let yourself be exploited. It doesn't matter where you live, our work place/business environment is international/global. When you provide first class services on that global market, you need to charge an adequate price. That's how you run a successful business. Not by charging astronomically high fees, but by charging reasonable rates to sustain, develop and expand your first-class business. That's why it makes sense to charge at least what you find suggested on Proz.com's translation rate page when you are starting out. It all starts with the right attitude.
Translating for minimum wage is a waste of your mind and time and only fills other people's pockets.
| | | | | Minimum Wage Thinking | Sep 29, 2015 |
englishpartner wrote: Inga has a very good point. Not that I am encouraging translators to accept insultingly low rates, but as an example if you compare Inga's calculations of .02 per source word to the current minimum wage for a full-time job in Slovakia - which is 380 euros - then I think it's a no-brainer for most anyone. Sorry, but location does count, and not only in real estate
It is sad to read such comments! Why do translators keep comparing themselves with minimum wage labourers? Anything more than minimum wage is good then?
Is this how bad it is in this industry!?
[Edited at 2015-09-29 12:41 GMT]
| | | | | annual tuition fees of 10,000 EUR or more | Sep 29, 2015 |
In the U.K. a bachelor's degree costs at least 9000 GBP in annual tuition fees, if I remember correctly. And a master's degree costs more than 10,000 GBP per annum. Why should anybody pay these fees, if they had to work for a minimum wage later on. I for one, wouldn't pay for my children to study languages and translation science if they can't earn more than a minimum wage with the skills acquired during their studies. From the economic point of view, it doesn't make any sense.
I ag... See more In the U.K. a bachelor's degree costs at least 9000 GBP in annual tuition fees, if I remember correctly. And a master's degree costs more than 10,000 GBP per annum. Why should anybody pay these fees, if they had to work for a minimum wage later on. I for one, wouldn't pay for my children to study languages and translation science if they can't earn more than a minimum wage with the skills acquired during their studies. From the economic point of view, it doesn't make any sense.
I agree with Gabriele, if professional translators compare themselves with minimum wage earners they are digging their own graves. Nobody will take them serious anymore. Just remember that professional in-house translators in government agencies and international organizations are on the same pay scale as other University graduates.
[Edited at 2015-09-29 13:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2015-09-29 13:15 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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