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Different rates for the domestic+foreign markets?
Thread poster: S_G_C
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:28
Romanian to English
+ ...
yes Nov 4, 2015

Sorana_M. wrote:

I have another question.

Romania is filled with translation agencies or bureaus. Many of them advertise themselves as being capable of providing translation services in multiple language pairs, including the ones considered rare. What they do is sort languages out into groups, according to the frequency with which these languages are chosen by translators, as their working combinations, and with which clients request them. Group 1 certainly includes English and French, as these two languages are extremely frequent. Translators working in the pairs included in Group 1 will be paid the lowest rates. And lowest starts, as I said, at 9 RON (2 EUR) for 2,000 characters with spaces - approx. 300 words.

I have not met any local agency who should say "I offer you rate A for English or French to Romanian" (Romanian being my mother tongue) "and rate B for Romanian to English or French".

Does this system exist in your countries?


Yes!It is in the US.

The DOJ (Dept. of Justice) has a chart of frequently used languages (mainly Spanish) and the pay rate is much lower than RO - EN.


 
S_G_C
S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 16:28
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Calculations and languages Nov 5, 2015

Michael, my posts are under moderation and approval, sometimes, it takes hours for them to be visible. So there might be severe delays between your replies or anybody else's reply and mine, regardless of when I answer.

In our trade, in Romania, 800 EUR before taxes equals 3,600 RON, approximately. After taxes, the amount left would roughly equal 2,340 RON (I deduced an approximate total of 35% taxes - income tax, pension fund contribution, health care contribution). No
... See more
Michael, my posts are under moderation and approval, sometimes, it takes hours for them to be visible. So there might be severe delays between your replies or anybody else's reply and mine, regardless of when I answer.

In our trade, in Romania, 800 EUR before taxes equals 3,600 RON, approximately. After taxes, the amount left would roughly equal 2,340 RON (I deduced an approximate total of 35% taxes - income tax, pension fund contribution, health care contribution). Now, that is middle class income. Would it be enough to ensure a translator a reasonable living standard, worry-free? For me, it wouldn't, and I have explained why.

I didn't know French to Romanian would be seen as an exotic combination. Romania has long been considered part of the "francophonie", children here learn French as a second foreign language since their 5th grade (11 years old). Other foreign languages possible in some schools and high-schools are German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and even Russian. Some of them provide intensive courses, I myself used to have 9 classes of English per week when I was in high-school.

[Edited at 2015-11-05 09:30 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-05 09:32 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-05 17:53 GMT]
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Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:28
English to German
+ ...
Pay rate? Different planet? Nov 5, 2015

liviu roth wrote:

Yes!It is in the US.

The DOJ (Dept. of Justice) has a chart of frequently used languages (mainly Spanish) and the pay rate is much lower than RO - EN.


And? You are working for that amount of money? Or are you just stating an opinion? 2 Euros or 2 USD for 300 words? You're ( = one is) on a completely different planet. The planet of the monkeys.


 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:28
German to English
I think there was a misunderstanding Nov 5, 2015

Bernhard, look as Liviu's post again. Unless I've completely misunderstood what he wrote, the DOJ pays US rates for Romanian, even though translators are earning a tiny fraction of that amount half-way around the world. The DOJ also pays more for Romanian > English than Spanish > English, because one of them is an exotic pair in the US and the other isn't.

 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:28
English to German
+ ...
Yes Nov 5, 2015

Michael Wetzel wrote:

Bernhard, look as Liviu's post again. Unless I've completely misunderstood what he wrote, the DOJ pays US rates for Romanian, even though translators are earning a tiny fraction of that amount half-way around the world. The DOJ also pays more for Romanian > English than Spanish > English, because one of them is an exotic pair in the US and the other isn't.


Well, I'd be interested in the rate. But you've got a point.


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:28
Romanian to English
+ ...
RO-EN-RO Nov 5, 2015

In my field of expertise, I get paid between $.15-17/word, which does not make me rich, but I cannot complain that I am exploited. For interpretation, I get a daily rate between $480-600, which is a little less than the average.

Satisfied Bernhard?

In my previous post I was referring to the existing difference. Michael got it right, thank you.


 
S_G_C
S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 16:28
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Rates of the Romanian DOJ Nov 5, 2015

Bernhard, in Romania, I am entitled to function as a sworn translator. In Romania, a sworn translator is a person who, after having completed a specific form of linguistic education OR passed a formal examination, has been recognized by the Romanian Ministry of Justice as able to perform juridical translations - both written and oral (interpreter services) - from and into the foreign language(s) he/she has studied.

Recognized means that the person in question has been issued an aut
... See more
Bernhard, in Romania, I am entitled to function as a sworn translator. In Romania, a sworn translator is a person who, after having completed a specific form of linguistic education OR passed a formal examination, has been recognized by the Romanian Ministry of Justice as able to perform juridical translations - both written and oral (interpreter services) - from and into the foreign language(s) he/she has studied.

Recognized means that the person in question has been issued an authorization from this Ministry. Lately, we can obtain an official document which states that our qualification is valid abroad as well. We do not have to renew it periodically.

There are two ways to obtain such an authorization: you have either benefited of the specific form of linguistic education I mentioned above, in which case you are not held to pass any formal examination, the proof of your tuition being enough,

or you do not have such a linguistic background, but you desire to become a sworn translator, in which case you have to initially take a formal examination in the juridical field with the Ministry of Culture and then, provided that you pass the test, obtain the sworn translator authorization from the Ministry of Justice. This exam usually comprises two exams - from a foreign language into Romanian and from Romanian into a foreign language. The two exams are paid separately.

With this authorization, you are under the obligation of serving the state's bodies when and if required. You may decline the request, but your reasons have to be reasonable.

In Romania, we use special formulations on those documents requiring our stamp and signature and, possibly, the stamp and signature of a Notary Public.

Now, when working for the state's official bodies, the Ministry of Justice pays us the following rates:

• 23.15 RON/hour for interpreting services, from Romanian into a foreign language and from a foreign language into Romanian.
• 33.56 RON/page of target language translation for written translations.

And page means, and I quote from an official source, A4; Normal Arial; Arial fonts; font size 12; line spacing 1; page margins: 2,5 cm up, down, right, left.

23,15 RON means, at the official exchange rate today, 5.20 EUR.
33.56 RON means 7.54 EUR.

There has been a legislative project to increase these rates to 28 RON and 40 RON, respectively, but I have no information as to the project being approved.

The amounts mentioned do not include the VAT, as this only applies to certain circumstances.

[Edited at 2015-11-05 18:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-11-05 18:55 GMT]
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Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:28
English to German
+ ...
Speaking out against rock bottom rates Nov 6, 2015

liviu roth wrote:

In my field of expertise, I get paid between $.15-17/word, which does not make me rich, but I cannot complain that I am exploited. For interpretation, I get a daily rate between $480-600, which is a little less than the average.

Satisfied Bernhard?

In my previous post I was referring to the existing difference. Michael got it right, thank you.


Hi, you were referring to a pay rate as stated by the US Dept. of Justice that is much lower for certain pairs like yours.
I was more taken aback by the word pay rate than anything else because it implies that it's not you who decides what is being paid but an agency, institution or "the market" etc. Not sure if you are referring to "Dept. of Justice" now or, as I understand it, your own average rate that you are able to quote and charge, which is clearly way above what others are trying so hard to defend for your and similar language pairs (USD .05/word for example, or even lower). I still hold that defending rock bottom rates charged by certain agencies based on either their location or the location of the translator is simply wrong and invites exploitation (it is attempted often, anywhere, not just in countries like Romania or, for example, by Romanian agencies) and it can be seen on all job portals, which hardly ever have anything serious to offer.
That's why I feel that low rates and the companies that demand them are really scraping the bottom of the barrel and we should tell newcomers to stay away if they want to take this career seriously.


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:28
Romanian to English
+ ...
agency rate Nov 6, 2015

I work with an agency that has a contract with the DOJ - Criminal Division that pays me $.17/.05/word for translating/editing. I know that they charge the DOJ $.28 for my work, but I feel it is fair enough.

 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:28
German to English
Even at 0.03 EUR ... Nov 6, 2015

Sorana_M. wrote:

In our trade, in Romania, 800 EUR before taxes equals 3,600 RON, approximately. After taxes, the amount left would roughly equal 2,340 RON (I deduced an approximate total of 35% taxes - income tax, pension fund contribution, health care contribution). Now, that is middle class income. Would it be enough to ensure a translator a reasonable living standard, worry-free? For me, it wouldn't, and I have explained why.


That makes sense, and I think I failed to say what I meant. What I really meant (in fairness to Bernhard, as well) was that "Even at 0.03 EUR/ word ...", and I did not mean to imply that there was any reason to set 0.03 EUR as a target, even if it would represent a vast improvement.
I just wanted to show that it seems to make sense that rates are so low in Romania and that there is no direct way to change this. I don't see how Bernhard's moral high ground will help you to make ends meet or change this situation and I don't think that the obviously very appealing chain reaction described by Gabriele will actually come about. The reason for that is that a "majority" of translators (or clients) will never do anything.
The only thing that counts is what Liviu has pointed out with concrete numbers: Entirely different prices are being paid for translations to and from Romanian in other parts of the world, in other contexts and at other levels of proximity to end-clients. That is, it ought to be possible to earn 0.10 or 0.15 EUR or 0.20 EUR per word, because the price of your services ultimately depends on the value a given set of clients consistently places on them, not a "fair" price or the "average" price or the cost of living in a given country, etc.

Sorana_M. wrote:

I didn't know French to Romanian would be seen as an exotic combination. Romania has long been considered part of the "francophonie", children here learn French as a second foreign language since their 5th grade (11 years old). Other foreign languages possible in some schools and high-schools are German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and even Russian. Some of them provide intensive courses, I myself used to have 9 classes of English per week when I was in high-school.


In the Romanian context it may not make sense, but I would guess a lot of clients elsewhere don't even know that Romanian (or Hungarian) aren't Slavic languages (there was even recently a posting here about a translator offering several Slavic languages, who didn't realize that Romanian is a Romance language). So again, selling French > Romanian translations in Romania may be like trying to sell ice to pinguins, but that doesn't mean it's that way everywhere.


 
S_G_C
S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 16:28
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Standards Nov 6, 2015

I explained above (my post is awaiting vetting, I edited it after it was approved) that the official rates afforded by the Romanian Ministry of Justice aren't encouraging either. So they are not a standard that should drive the domestic translation market upwards.

I read somewhere that there are around 37,000 sworn translators in Romania...


 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:28
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
I agree Nov 6, 2015

Michael Wetzel wrote:

Sorana_M. wrote:

In our trade, in Romania, 800 EUR before taxes equals 3,600 RON, approximately. After taxes, the amount left would roughly equal 2,340 RON (I deduced an approximate total of 35% taxes - income tax, pension fund contribution, health care contribution). Now, that is middle class income. Would it be enough to ensure a translator a reasonable living standard, worry-free? For me, it wouldn't, and I have explained why.


That makes sense, and I think I failed to say what I meant. What I really meant (in fairness to Bernhard, as well) was that "Even at 0.03 EUR/ word ...", and I did not mean to imply that there was any reason to set 0.03 EUR as a target, even if it would represent a vast improvement.
I just wanted to show that it seems to make sense that rates are so low in Romania and that there is no direct way to change this. I don't see how Bernhard's moral high ground will help you to make ends meet or change this situation and I don't think that the obviously very appealing chain reaction described by Gabriele will actually come about. The reason for that is that a "majority" of translators (or clients) will never do anything.
The only thing that counts is what Liviu has pointed out with concrete numbers: Entirely different prices are being paid for translations to and from Romanian in other parts of the world, in other contexts and at other levels of proximity to end-clients. That is, it ought to be possible to earn 0.10 or 0.15 EUR or 0.20 EUR per word, because the price of your services ultimately depends on the value a given set of clients consistently places on them, not a "fair" price or the "average" price or the cost of living in a given country, etc.

Sorana_M. wrote:

I didn't know French to Romanian would be seen as an exotic combination. Romania has long been considered part of the "francophonie", children here learn French as a second foreign language since their 5th grade (11 years old). Other foreign languages possible in some schools and high-schools are German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and even Russian. Some of them provide intensive courses, I myself used to have 9 classes of English per week when I was in high-school.


In the Romanian context it may not make sense, but I would guess a lot of clients elsewhere don't even know that Romanian (or Hungarian) aren't Slavic languages (there was even recently a posting here about a translator offering several Slavic languages, who didn't realize that Romanian is a Romance language). So again, selling French > Romanian translations in Romania may be like trying to sell ice to pinguins, but that doesn't mean it's that way everywhere.



with most of what you've said.

This rates' discussion comes up two or three times per week and it gets more and more absurd each week.

When people rant about rates it's not because they care about other translator's well-being or about the profession "they love", it is just that they are frustrated because they can't get enough work at their current rates.

Hoping that the world's per word rate will somehow increase after hundreds of rants is at least childish.

Options:

A) Specialize in something no one else provides

B) Move to a place where living is cheaper

C) Become an interpreter (delocalisation doesn't affect them - if you live in New York, you'll earn New York rates)

There are probably more options to add to the list.


 
S_G_C
S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 16:28
English to Romanian
TOPIC STARTER
Rant? Nov 6, 2015

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:

When people rant about rates it's not because they care about other translator's well-being or about the profession "they love", it is just that they are frustrated because they can't get enough work at their current rates.

Hoping that the world's per word rate will somehow increase after hundreds of rants is at least childish.



To me, this post is offending. I didn't think presenting one's own situation and asking for opinions concerning the situation of our fellow translators would be considered ranting.

And I love my profession, otherwise, I would have given it up 4 years ago, when the world was crying "beware of the economic crisis".


 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:28
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
? Nov 6, 2015

Sorana_M. wrote:

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:

When people rant about rates it's not because they care about other translator's well-being or about the profession "they love", it is just that they are frustrated because they can't get enough work at their current rates.

Hoping that the world's per word rate will somehow increase after hundreds of rants is at least childish.



To me, this post is offending. I didn't think presenting one's own situation and asking for opinions concerning the situation of our fellow translators would be considered ranting.

And I love my profession, otherwise, I would have given it up 4 years ago, when the world was crying "beware of the economic crisis".


Not referring to your case. You are allowed to rant.


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:28
English to German
+ ...
Case inquiry Nov 6, 2015

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:

Sorana_M. wrote:

Alvaro Espantaleon wrote:

When people rant about rates it's not because they care about other translator's well-being or about the profession "they love", it is just that they are frustrated because they can't get enough work at their current rates.

Hoping that the world's per word rate will somehow increase after hundreds of rants is at least childish.



To me, this post is offending. I didn't think presenting one's own situation and asking for opinions concerning the situation of our fellow translators would be considered ranting.

And I love my profession, otherwise, I would have given it up 4 years ago, when the world was crying "beware of the economic crisis".


Not referring to your case. You are allowed to rant.


What "case" are you referring to?


 
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Different rates for the domestic+foreign markets?







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