| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | "For legal reasons, we will pay this invoice in half a year"... !!! Thread poster: Magdalena Kowalska
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A German agency I did a few jobs for wants to pay one of my invoices in March next year, for a reason which is completely unclear to me. Apparently this is because the company is in the process of restructuring (in German "Schutzschirmverfahren"), and "due to legal reasons no outstanding invoices sent before November 18, 2015, can be paid until March 2016."
They sound like they don't want to loose their translators though, because they have paid two other, bigger invoices immediate... See more A German agency I did a few jobs for wants to pay one of my invoices in March next year, for a reason which is completely unclear to me. Apparently this is because the company is in the process of restructuring (in German "Schutzschirmverfahren"), and "due to legal reasons no outstanding invoices sent before November 18, 2015, can be paid until March 2016."
They sound like they don't want to loose their translators though, because they have paid two other, bigger invoices immediately, for two jobs completed very recently, and have apologized 1000 times.
Has anyone ever heard of anything similar? Is there anything I can do in March 2016, if an invoice from October 2015 is not paid?
Their BB record looks scarce but good. I should have checked on paymentpractices before; they look rather dodgy there. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Just imagine ... | Dec 9, 2015 |
if you were to tell this agency that you're very sorry but, "for some trumped-up reason", you are unable to deliver the job you're doing for them until March 2016.
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Hahah Jenny.. The only reason I'm not really freaking out yet is, they have paid the two other invoices immediately.
I would like to know if anyone has ever encountered anything similar.
I thought they have filed for insolvency, but their name does not appear on https://www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de , if that's anything to go by.
I am, of course, think... See more Hahah Jenny.. The only reason I'm not really freaking out yet is, they have paid the two other invoices immediately.
I would like to know if anyone has ever encountered anything similar.
I thought they have filed for insolvency, but their name does not appear on https://www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de , if that's anything to go by.
I am, of course, thinking of filing a non-payment with proz.com, but would like to hear from people first, because the case is interesting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 09:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| It sounds as though they are in receivership | Dec 9, 2015 |
It sounds identical to the situation I found myself in back in France. One invoice got stalled and stalled, and meanwhile I sent two more. They finally came clean with an official letter from the receiver, a lawyer. This said that the two recent ones were guaranteed. So were future ones during the receivership, but the older one could only be paid if the company refloated. And so it was: exemplary conduct for a few months, then the company closed and took my one invoice payment with them.
... See more It sounds identical to the situation I found myself in back in France. One invoice got stalled and stalled, and meanwhile I sent two more. They finally came clean with an official letter from the receiver, a lawyer. This said that the two recent ones were guaranteed. So were future ones during the receivership, but the older one could only be paid if the company refloated. And so it was: exemplary conduct for a few months, then the company closed and took my one invoice payment with them.
Can you check the official companies register for the country? Otherwise, I'd advise some legal advice from a specialist forum. I know there are a few around where final year law students will gather information for a few euros - I've used one based in France. ▲ Collapse
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Dear Sheila,
Many thanks, I think you have clarified the situation.
I'm not sure what exactly I could check on the official companies register. unternehmensregister.de just lists them as a company, but does not give any other info.
I will file a non-payment with proz.com, and ask the company for a confirmation from their receiver that my invoice will be paid.
Does that sound like a plan?
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Jenny Forbes wrote:
if you were to tell this agency that you're very sorry but, "for some trumped-up reason", you are unable to deliver the job you're doing for them until March 2016.
They just excuse only for their benefits, not be based on business reasons.
Soonthon L.
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:19
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
You ought to hear it from the receiver. I remember the company I dealt with being very evasive for a while - wouldn't say much at all. Then suddenly everything changed. I suppose they were waiting for it all to be finalised.
I later realised that the company accountant had tried to save my invoice. She asked me to resubmit my invoice for some truly insignificant reason and resubmit it with the current date. But I thought they were just trying to delay payment even more so I left the... See more You ought to hear it from the receiver. I remember the company I dealt with being very evasive for a while - wouldn't say much at all. Then suddenly everything changed. I suppose they were waiting for it all to be finalised.
I later realised that the company accountant had tried to save my invoice. She asked me to resubmit my invoice for some truly insignificant reason and resubmit it with the current date. But I thought they were just trying to delay payment even more so I left the date unchanged. If only I'd been more savvy then . ▲ Collapse
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Sheila,
What would you have done, if you were more savvy then?
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Richard Foulkes (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:19
German to English
+ ...
| Administration rather than receivership? | Dec 9, 2015 |
I can't find a good translation / definition of "Schutzschirmverfahren" off hand, but it sounds possibly more like our 'administration' rather than 'receivership', i.e. the company is indeed being re-structured rather than wound up.
Perhaps it would be an idea to seek legal advice in Germany for clarification.
| | | | | Administration? | Dec 9, 2015 |
Would administration be a good reason not to pay invoices?
| | | | | Schutzschirmverfahren nach § 270b InsO | Dec 9, 2015 |
The "Schutzschirmverfahren" is certainly not made up or an excuse. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to engage in major fraud in order to avoid paying an invoice.
I don't know much of anything about insolvency law in Germany or elsewhere, but this particular procedure is new and may be specific to Germany and seems to represent a kind of half-receivership (based on Wikipedia and a short summary by an insolvency lawyer). A court grants the company the right to appoint their... See more The "Schutzschirmverfahren" is certainly not made up or an excuse. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to engage in major fraud in order to avoid paying an invoice.
I don't know much of anything about insolvency law in Germany or elsewhere, but this particular procedure is new and may be specific to Germany and seems to represent a kind of half-receivership (based on Wikipedia and a short summary by an insolvency lawyer). A court grants the company the right to appoint their own receiver on after the company is able to demonstrate that they are very unlikely to become permanently insolvent. So, I guess that's good news.
I suppose the logic behind the cut-off day in November and the payment day in March is that the currently overwhelming debt prior to the November day can be paid through the profits made between now and March. Not paying any invoices would very quickly ruin the company and lead to permanent insolvency.
I don't think that there is anything that you can do about the frozen invoice and I would actually wait until March to make a BB entry, because they have notified you of the situation and there is genuinely nothing they or you can do until that time (the suggestion from Sheila's insider is intriguing, but I wouldn't want to try to pull anything like that unless I stood to lose a lot of money). Because of this situation, I would almost certainly not work with them in the meantime and for a significant waiting period after March to see if they really get back on their feet, but I would very much hope that other translators continue to work with them (so that the business can earn the money it needs and everyone can be paid). ▲ Collapse
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This came from the agency: "There is no receiver as this procedure ("Schutzschirmverfahren") does not require one. We are speaking of "Eigenverwaltung" here."
Well, I am not a lawyer. I guess at this point, logically, I should get a lawyer to send them a letter, and any further communication in this matter should be done between lawyers.
Where do I find a lawyer who will not charge me more than that invoice is worth?
I'm feeling once again we are walking o... See more This came from the agency: "There is no receiver as this procedure ("Schutzschirmverfahren") does not require one. We are speaking of "Eigenverwaltung" here."
Well, I am not a lawyer. I guess at this point, logically, I should get a lawyer to send them a letter, and any further communication in this matter should be done between lawyers.
Where do I find a lawyer who will not charge me more than that invoice is worth?
I'm feeling once again we are walking on a very thin ice as freelance translators! ▲ Collapse
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Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 10:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Resend the bill with late payment interest applied. | Dec 9, 2015 |
Send them a reminder and inform them that you will start charging interest on a daily basis and they shall incur the costs of you having to hire a debt collector, as per EU law.
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment/index_en.htm
Here's a copy of a standard letter I've had to use just once so far. It's in Spanish and I'm a little bu... See more Send them a reminder and inform them that you will start charging interest on a daily basis and they shall incur the costs of you having to hire a debt collector, as per EU law.
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment/index_en.htm
Here's a copy of a standard letter I've had to use just once so far. It's in Spanish and I'm a little busy to translate it, but hope it helps anyway. Interest is charged at approx. 9% per day (if the debt is 200 €, >> 200 x 1.09 x (number of days overdue/365) = amount of interest to add to the initial 200 €).
"Esta factura ha vencido hace XX dias/semanas. Te agradecería me informarás sobre cuándo se procederá al pago.
Aquí te facilito un enlace sobre el tema por parte de la UE http://ec.europa.eu/growth/smes/support/late-payment/index_en.htm
Segun tal directiva de la UE ya podría cobrar, en adición del valor inicial de la factura, € 40 (en concepto de gastos de recuperación) + (valor de factura - €47,02 X 1,09) = € 91,02 [el 1,09 viene de: 0,25% - the European Central Bank's refinancing rate for Jan-June 2014 + 8,25% - el tipo legal establecido por espana (ver adjunto). Y estos interes se irán acumulando con cada día de demora."
This will place you at the top of the waiting list for payment if the company goes into receivership.
Hope this helps and good luck.
[Edited at 2015-12-09 13:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 10:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
| EU late payment directive | Dec 9, 2015 |
"Main provisions of the Directive
Public authorities have to pay for the goods and services that they procure within 30 days or, in very exceptional circumstances, within 60 days.
Enterprises have to pay their invoices within 60 days, unless they expressly agree otherwise and provided it is not grossly unfair.
Automatic entitlement to interest for late payment and €40 minimum as compensation for recovery costs.
Statutory interest of at least 8%... See more "Main provisions of the Directive
Public authorities have to pay for the goods and services that they procure within 30 days or, in very exceptional circumstances, within 60 days.
Enterprises have to pay their invoices within 60 days, unless they expressly agree otherwise and provided it is not grossly unfair.
Automatic entitlement to interest for late payment and €40 minimum as compensation for recovery costs.
Statutory interest of at least 8% above the European Central Bank’s reference rate.
EU countries may continue maintaining or bringing into force laws and regulations which are more favourable to the creditor than the provisions of the Directive.
Interest for Late Payment
Statutory interest rate (%/year) in all EU countries pdf Choose translations of the previous link (171 kB) "
AUSTRIA
9,08%
BELGIUM
8,50%
BULGARIA
10,02%
CROATIA
10,14%
CYPRUS
8,05%
CZECH REPUBLIC
8,05%
DENMARK
8,05%
ESTONIA
8,05%
FINLAND
8,05%
FRANCE
8,05%
GERMANY
8,17%
GREECE
8,05%
HUNGARY
9,35%
IRELAND
8,05%
ITALY
8,05%
LATVIA
8,05%
LITHUANIA
8,05%
LUXEMBOURG
8,05%
MALTA
8,05%
NETHERLANDS
8,05%
POLAND
8,00%
PORTUGAL
8,05%
ROMANIA
9,75%
SLOVAKIA
8,05%
SLOVENIA
8,05%
SPAIN
8,05%
SWEDEN
8,00%
UNITED KINGDOM
8,50%
[Edited at 2015-12-09 13:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 10:19
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Debt collection agency rather than a solicitor | Dec 9, 2015 |
Magdalena Kowalska wrote:
Well, I am not a lawyer. I guess at this point, logically, I should get a lawyer to send them a letter, and any further communication in this matter should be done between lawyers.
Where do I find a lawyer who will not charge me more than that invoice is worth?
May I suggest that rather than a solicitor you need a debt collection agency. They will either have their own solicitors or know the law regarding debt collection better than any given solicitor, afterall it's what they specialise in. Plus the bill for the debt collection agency should be paid by the debtor (the translation agency which owes you money) - so you needn't worry about that.
Again, good luck.
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