| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Agencies lowering my rates over the years Thread poster: Nathalie Suteau (X)
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
| Where are those agencies? | Feb 5, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Good agencies exist, but they take a while to find. If I end up working with one out of ten agencies I contact I consider myself to have done well. EDIT And that's when I'm working from a carefully selected and vetted list of agencies that I think will be interested in my services.
Regards
Dan
[Edited at 2016-02-04 22:16 GMT]
I've been hearing this (yeah, I know what that sounds like) for years. From several translators in several countries. Can't you/we simply name those agencies? Or would it be like shooting ourselves in the foot, like selling our resources to our competitors?
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 20:59
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Against the rules to name outsourcers | Feb 5, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
Can't you/we simply name those agencies? Or would it be like shooting ourselves in the foot, like selling our resources to our competitors?
Besides, there are so many agencies out there that there would be loads of good ones that didn't get a mention. I imagine they'd think it was a bit unfair. I just did a search on this site for agencies specifically offering services in Romanian - i.e. not just saying that they support all languages - and came up with 2,486. And that's just the ones registered on ProZ.com.
| | | | Nathalie Suteau (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:59
English to French
TOPIC STARTER | They don't exist anymore, that's all | Feb 5, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote: Dan Lucas wrote:
Good agencies exist, but they take a while to find. If I end up working with one out of ten agencies I contact I consider myself to have done well. EDIT And that's when I'm working from a carefully selected and vetted list of agencies that I think will be interested in my services.
Regards
Dan
[Edited at 2016-02-04 22:16 GMT] I've been hearing this (yeah, I know what that sounds like) for years. From several translators in several countries. Can't you/we simply name those agencies? Or would it be like shooting ourselves in the foot, like selling our resources to our competitors?
I think they don't exist anymore that's all as my 3 agencies used to be part of them.
And we cannot name any companies on this board, I think it's forbidden. I'm not sure, I come here once every 2 years. Let's not forget that Proz belongs to an agency that offers very poor rates.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:59
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Separating the wheat from the chaff | Feb 5, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
Can't you/we simply name those agencies? Or would it be like shooting ourselves in the foot, like selling our resources to our competitors?
Some people put effort into marketing the right way, and presumably have the right skill mix, with the result that they find decent clients. Others won't or can't do that. It's one of the things that separates successful from not-so successful translators, it seems to me.
Just for the record, and in case I am (wrongly) giving off an air of infallibility, I certainly do not yet have as many clients as I would like. It's a work in progress and perhaps it always will be. I'm pretty sure that any translator who sits there for years on end without adding new clients will have a difficult time of it.
Regards
Dan
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S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
| ProZ agencies | Feb 6, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I just did a search on this site for agencies specifically offering services in Romanian - i.e. not just saying that they support all languages - and came up with 2,486. And that's just the ones registered on ProZ.com.
You did exactly what I did years ago. Only that I have also emailed almost all of them, as I have mentioned in a previous thread of mine.
[Edited at 2016-02-06 08:45 GMT]
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
| Marketing the right way | Feb 6, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
...marketing the right way...
Meaning?
I have the feeling that there are some untold, perhaps uncomfortable, truths out there concerning the international - or global - translation market that not many translators are willing to reveal or accept. And it gets funnier as time goes by.
| | | | | Some untold truths | Feb 6, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
I have the feeling that there are some untold, perhaps uncomfortable, truths out there concerning the international - or global - translation market that not many translators are willing to reveal or accept. And it gets funnier as time goes by.
I like to offer transparency in my work. I'll answer all my clients'/prospects' questions honestly, options including 'I don't know' when I really don't, which is fortunately rare.
The thread title here becomes self-explanatory with my emphasis:
"Agencies lowering my rates over the years"
Heck, nobody but me can lower MY rates!
An agency can lower THEIR rates, if they wish.
In case they overdo it, it will be MY prerogative to consider them too low to accept a job.
Some untold truths, amidst a ton of facts potentially unknown by translation customers, are the main content of my web site. Two samples:
10 WAYS TO SAVE MONEY IN TRANSLATION
SHOULD YOU HIRE A FREELANCE TRANSLATOR OR A TRANSLATION AGENCY?
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
José, I was referring to those truths known by translators themselves, not by translation customers.
When I started out as a translator, there was no help for me. In my country, back then, translations were mostly done without the use of the Internet, as Internet was still new to Romania. We had computers, not the high-tech ones we have today, but the less sophisticated ones, my first computer was something older than Pentium I, which is a relic today. So translators used paper dic... See more José, I was referring to those truths known by translators themselves, not by translation customers.
When I started out as a translator, there was no help for me. In my country, back then, translations were mostly done without the use of the Internet, as Internet was still new to Romania. We had computers, not the high-tech ones we have today, but the less sophisticated ones, my first computer was something older than Pentium I, which is a relic today. So translators used paper dictionaries as their main support. And we were performing sworn translations.
My fellow translators weren't willing to help the newbies out. I and three college mates of mine helped each other out as we went along. We didn't even know the laws regulating our profession, and the Tax Authorities in my home city didn't know them too well, either. I have quarreled with them over this a couple of times.
Now, concerning such issues as "the right way to market yourself", "don't lower your rates", "fairly paying customers are still out there, you just have to find them", I'm sick of them. I've been hearing them for years and they have become meaningless to me.
I have never been a paying member of ProZ. As a result, I have not been able to quote on jobs for a very long time now. I have to add money to my wallet first. However, ProZ has been helping me out with other quite useful stuff.
Some people here know that I am on the verge of closing down my business. Over the years, I have had potential or actual customers requiring me to buy this or that CAT. My latest proposition sounded like "we can offer you 0.023 EUR/source word, and that's the highest we can go. However, you will first have to purchase Trados Studio 2015, as this is the only acceptable CAT for us".
I cursed and declined the offer, but have been work-less for months.
"Agencies lowering my rates" sounds perfectly logical to me. "My" refers to those rates I have been given by those particular agencies and accepted until now.
Other truths are mentioned in one of my threads.
[Edited at 2016-02-06 14:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:59
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Unpalatable truths | Feb 7, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
Now, concerning such issues as "the right way to market yourself", "don't lower your rates", "fairly paying customers are still out there, you just have to find them", I'm sick of them. I've been hearing them for years and they have become meaningless to me.
You may be sick of hearing them, but that does not mean that the advice is not useful. Clearly some of it works for others, at least in other language pairs. In your specific case, the cause of the problem likely falls into one of two categories.
- It's you. You're not doing the right things. You haven't done anything more than email agencies, or the emails you send are not attractive enough, or your experience is not considered valuable enough.
- It's the language pair. Perhaps there is just not enough demand for translation into the Romanian language from English. Coupled with an excess of translators this could cause the market conditions you describe.
Regarding your complaint of starting out on your own, it seems normal for freelancers. I certainly got no help when I started out other than what I have gleaned from the internet and places like ProZ.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | Why should they pay you more? | Feb 7, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
Now, concerning such issues as "the right way to market yourself", "don't lower your rates", "fairly paying customers are still out there, you just have to find them", I'm sick of them. I've been hearing them for years and they have become meaningless to me.
I have never been a paying member of ProZ. As a result, I have not been able to quote on jobs for a very long time now. I have to add money to my wallet first. However, ProZ has been helping me out with other quite useful stuff.
Some people here know that I am on the verge of closing down my business. Over the years, I have had potential or actual customers requiring me to buy this or that CAT. My latest proposition sounded like "we can offer you 0.023 EUR/source word, and that's the highest we can go. However, you will first have to purchase Trados Studio 2015, as this is the only acceptable CAT for us".
I cursed and declined the offer, but have been work-less for months.
Sorana, there are thousands of translators out there. You have to be competitive.
You do not invest in marketing, not even the money for a ProZ membership.
You do not invest in the tools of the trade.
You do not have a serious specialization.
If the only way you try to be competitive is by lowering your rates, then what do you expect?
When agencies tell me I need to lower my rates to be competitive, I tell them that I cannot be competitive if I lower my rates. Quality needs time and my time has to be paid. I am sure they go searching for cheaper translators but they (at least the ones I want to work with) do not go very far.
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
I'm sorry, but I can't afford to invest in memberships and all of the tools of the trade that potential clients work with. Taxation laws have just changed in Romania and I will have to pay more this year, whether I close down my business or not. The rule is "pay first, settle the matter later".
As for my specialization, as long as my full name can be found in several places on the Internet and I can point agencies or direct clients to those places whenever they ask me for samples o... See more I'm sorry, but I can't afford to invest in memberships and all of the tools of the trade that potential clients work with. Taxation laws have just changed in Romania and I will have to pay more this year, whether I close down my business or not. The rule is "pay first, settle the matter later".
As for my specialization, as long as my full name can be found in several places on the Internet and I can point agencies or direct clients to those places whenever they ask me for samples of my work, I consider Anna's remark an offence and will report it.
With that particular agency, I wouldn't have been offered more than 0.023 EUR EVEN IF I had bought the latest version of Trados Studio.
I've detailed here some other aspects with agencies and rates and stuff like that: http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/294052-different_rates_for_the_domestic+foreign_markets.html
[Edited at 2016-02-07 17:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I apologise... | Feb 7, 2016 |
Sorana,
first, sorry that I offended you. My claim was based to your profile here. It was your profile which gave me this impression. I do not want to say more here, but if you want to know why (because it could give potential clients the same impression), I would be glad to discuss this privately.
You cannot afford not to invest. A membership in ProZ for example costs ca. 100 EUR. My first membership paid the next day. The investment of money in my membership is negli... See more Sorana,
first, sorry that I offended you. My claim was based to your profile here. It was your profile which gave me this impression. I do not want to say more here, but if you want to know why (because it could give potential clients the same impression), I would be glad to discuss this privately.
You cannot afford not to invest. A membership in ProZ for example costs ca. 100 EUR. My first membership paid the next day. The investment of money in my membership is negligible compared to the money I have received from clients that have found me through ProZ.
CAT tools are more expensive, but the help me a) produce a higher quality b) be more productive and c) get more and better (and better paying) clients.
If I did not invest money and time in my business in order to be competitive, I would not have a business. ▲ Collapse
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:59
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| She's telling the truth | Feb 7, 2016 |
Sorana_M. wrote:
... I consider Anna's remark an offence and will report it.
That seems a little melodramatic. You stated quite clearly on this very page that you are not getting work. If a market for English to Romanian services exists and you're bidding for work but not getting it then by definion you are not competitive!
All Anna did was point out the obvious.
What it takes for you personally to become a competitive supplier I do not know. Maybe the market in your pair has a serious supply-demand imbalance. Another Romanian translator replied to your previous thread and that person seemed to have a more positive attitude to the industry than you.
In fact, I thought there were lots of constructive comments in that thread. You know, if what you're doing isn't working you must change something about what you do, or give up on the market.
And to the original poster - these issues all apply to you too. Maybe you can't save your translation business. Maybe you should leave the market. But if it's as bad as that, why not throw caution to the winds and totally change the way you approach translation? If it fails, you will have lost very little, maybe nothing.
Regards
Dan
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
| Freelancing in my case | Feb 7, 2016 |
Dan, when I graduated from college, I became a sworn translator. That was our denomination, not the one of freelancers. I don't know how sworn translations are performed around the globe, but, in Romania, sworn translators primarily "belong" to the Ministry of Justice. Their primary task is to serve the state and its bodies and their activity is regulated by a special law, which also stipulates the official rates - per page, nor per source word - sworn translators are supposed to be paid when wo... See more Dan, when I graduated from college, I became a sworn translator. That was our denomination, not the one of freelancers. I don't know how sworn translations are performed around the globe, but, in Romania, sworn translators primarily "belong" to the Ministry of Justice. Their primary task is to serve the state and its bodies and their activity is regulated by a special law, which also stipulates the official rates - per page, nor per source word - sworn translators are supposed to be paid when working for the state and its bodies. In order to be able to function legally, a sworn translator in Romania must follow a series of steps upon receiving his or her authorization.
I didn't consider myself a freelancer before I entered the international market, and that was three years after I received my authorization. By that time, I had managed to purchase a much more powerful computer and Internet had become widely available. I took that opportunity to inform others concerning that particular branch of the trade by publicly sharing my insight and experience and helping others out.
Back then, our authorization was only valid in Romania. At present, it is internationally accepted, we only have to require a certification in this regard from the same Ministry of Justice. ▲ Collapse
| | | | S_G_C
Romania
Local time: 22:59
English to Romanian
Dan Lucas wrote:
If a market for English to Romanian services exists and you're bidding for work but not getting it then by definion you are not competitive!
Or maybe I am not willing to accept 0.023 EUR/source word. Or even less than that.
I believe the community rate for English to Romanian is 0.08 EUR/source word. So would I suddenly become competitive if I accepted less than half of that number? And lose a minimum of 32% of it in taxes and contributions?
And I do use CATs, just not the latest version.
Locally, my application was rejected twice because they considered me overqualified (because of my higher education) and they wanted someone less skilled, whom they could pay less. Now isn't that ironical.
[Edited at 2016-02-07 19:14 GMT]
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