| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Proposing FWR = Fair Word Rate Thread poster: Heinrich Pesch
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Heinrich Pesch 
Finland
Local time: 23:00
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
This came to my mind when I answered today a posting in the German forum from an Uzbek freelance translator.
What would be a fare rate?
First we should determine:
How many words we would expect an experienced freelancer would translate daily?
If we state a volume of 2000 words and 20 days for a normal month, then we should proceed and ask:
How much income a freelance translator should get in his country?
Should an average income be fair? I... See more This came to my mind when I answered today a posting in the German forum from an Uzbek freelance translator.
What would be a fare rate?
First we should determine:
How many words we would expect an experienced freelancer would translate daily?
If we state a volume of 2000 words and 20 days for a normal month, then we should proceed and ask:
How much income a freelance translator should get in his country?
Should an average income be fair? If so:
FWR(X) = Average monthly income in country X / 2000 * 20
The average monthly income in a country we can take from Wikipedia. Purchasing power parity.
So if the average monthly income would be 1000 USD, the FWR would be 0.025 USD. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 22:00
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Okay. Just... does that freelancer need insurance, both professional as well as social security? Does that freelancer live in a shack or on the beach, or live of air and love? Frankly, this is pretty unrealistic.
| | | | | That is not the unrealistic part, IMO | Aug 23, 2016 |
Thayenga wrote: Okay. Just... does that freelancer need insurance, both professional as well as social security? Does that freelancer live in a shack or on the beach, or live of air and love? Frankly, this is pretty unrealistic.
All the things you mention should be included in the "average monthly income" Heinrich mentioned. However, in my opinion the unrealistic part is the assumption that a freelancer will actually have 2k to translate each day, 20 (or 22) days a month (12 months a year?).
At any rate, Heinrich's proposal could perhaps offer a basic idea of what a minimum rate should be...
BTW, isn't that what ProZ "Rate calculator" is supposed to do?
| | | | | I was about to write the same. | Aug 23, 2016 |
Mirko Mainardi wrote:
At any rate, Heinrich's proposal could perhaps offer a basic idea of what a minimum rate should be...
Elif
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:00
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Depends on your country | Aug 23, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
How much income a freelance translator should get in his country?
Should an average income be fair?
In some countries, the "average" is a small range with a lot of people in it. In others, it is a larger range with fewer people in it. In other words, in some countries, the majority of professions (except those for the very rich and the very poor) earn roughly similar salaries, but in other countries, there are large differences between professions. This means that the "average income" may be difficult to pin down.
One can also attempt to calculate an FWR by drawing up a hypothetical monthly expense account, and adding a little extra. I did that a few years ago and I was surprised by the result (the resultant "fair" rate was much higher than I had charged at that time) -- and that was before I had a wife and two children! The calculation included things like money to pay off study debt, home loan, car finance, further education, daily and monthly living expenses, insurance, equipment, etc, and writing off the non-monthly items over 5 or 10 years.
Not many sites that provide income statistics for specific countries have "translator" as a profession, so you'd have to think for a moment what other profession you would consider at the same level as a translator. Would you consider a teacher's salary the same as a translator's salary?
| | | | | Fairness is undefined | Aug 23, 2016 |
I think there are many cases where you can say that something is "unfair", but if you say that something is "fair", you will always face an angry crowd of protesters. There is no such thing as objective "fairness".
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 23:00
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I thought this as a help for outsourcers | Aug 23, 2016 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Heinrich Pesch wrote:
How much income a freelance translator should get in his country?
Should an average income be fair? In some countries, the "average" is a small range with a lot of people in it. In others, it is a larger range with fewer people in it. In other words, in some countries, the majority of professions (except those for the very rich and the very poor) earn roughly similar salaries, but in other countries, there are large differences between professions. This means that the "average income" may be difficult to pin down. One can also attempt to calculate an FWR by drawing up a hypothetical monthly expense account, and adding a little extra. I did that a few years ago and I was surprised by the result (the resultant "fair" rate was much higher than I had charged at that time) -- and that was before I had a wife and two children! The calculation included things like money to pay off study debt, home loan, car finance, further education, daily and monthly living expenses, insurance, equipment, etc, and writing off the non-monthly items over 5 or 10 years. Not many sites that provide income statistics for specific countries have "translator" as a profession, so you'd have to think for a moment what other profession you would consider at the same level as a translator. Would you consider a teacher's salary the same as a translator's salary?
Of course everyone must count for himself, how much s/he needs to charge. But a FWR would assist outsourcers to get at a rough figure. An outsourcer does not know, how much an individual person actually works in a certain week or month. Even I myself do not know how much money I will make this year.
| | | | Ilan Rubin (X)
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:00
Russian to English
| But that wouldn't be fair | Aug 23, 2016 |
Given the amount of effort required to become a good specialized translator, often including obtaining a good university degree and post-graduate education or training, it is hardly fair that a translator would only earn an average salary, which I would think in many countries you probably don't need to study at all to achieve. I'm sure there are easier ways to earn an average salary if that is the limit of one's ambitions.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 22:00
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Outsourcers or agencies? | Aug 23, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Of course everyone must count for himself, how much s/he needs to charge. But a FWR would assist outsourcers to get at a rough figure.
Do you mean clients/agencies, or do you mean translators passing on work to other translators?
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 22:00
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| How could they? | Aug 23, 2016 |
Mirko Mainardi wrote: Thayenga wrote: Okay. Just... does that freelancer need insurance, both professional as well as social security? Does that freelancer live in a shack or on the beach, or live of air and love? Frankly, this is pretty unrealistic. All the things you mention should be included in the "average monthly income" Heinrich mentioned.
1000 of any currency to included all the daily and monthly necessities? Highly unlikely.
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 16:00
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Average = Fair?? | Aug 23, 2016 |
Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Should an average income be fair? If so:
Translators are practicing a profession. Do professionals typically earn an "average" income? IMO, translating is a demanding and highly skilled profession that should earn above the "average" income.
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Thayenga wrote: Mirko Mainardi wrote: Thayenga wrote: Okay. Just... does that freelancer need insurance, both professional as well as social security? Does that freelancer live in a shack or on the beach, or live of air and love? Frankly, this is pretty unrealistic. All the things you mention should be included in the "average monthly income" Heinrich mentioned. 1000 of any currency to included all the daily and monthly necessities? Highly unlikely.
He also wrote "The average monthly income in a country we can take from Wikipedia. Purchasing power parity". 1,000 was just used as an example... Like when "100" is used to make a proportion (however, I'm sure there are countries where 1,000 of some currency is more than enough to include everything and then some  )
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| My thoughts exactly | Aug 23, 2016 |
John Fossey wrote:
Translators are practicing a profession. Do professionals typically earn an "average" income? IMO, translating is a demanding and highly skilled profession that should earn above the "average" income.
| | | | | "Professions" | Aug 23, 2016 |
John Fossey wrote: Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Should an average income be fair? If so:
Translators are practicing a profession. Do professionals typically earn an "average" income? IMO, translating is a demanding and highly skilled profession that should earn above the "average" income.
Note that not every country and culture has a similarly pronounced and distinct concept of "the professions" (as to their status, exclusivity, income expectations etc.) the way countries like US/UK do.
| | | | | The first idea that bothers me | Aug 24, 2016 |
is the idea of anyone informing our customers (i.e. "outsourcers") what our rates should be. The calculations themselves are off for reasons that have already been mentioned.
- the "average income" in any country is not necessarily spread evenly (nor are living expenses)
- a freelancer does not necessarily work steady hours, and 5 days/week
- we are not employees, with the employer picking up the tab for expenses. We have our "office expenses" (the rent or similar and upkeep ... See more is the idea of anyone informing our customers (i.e. "outsourcers") what our rates should be. The calculations themselves are off for reasons that have already been mentioned.
- the "average income" in any country is not necessarily spread evenly (nor are living expenses)
- a freelancer does not necessarily work steady hours, and 5 days/week
- we are not employees, with the employer picking up the tab for expenses. We have our "office expenses" (the rent or similar and upkeep of the working area), transportation, supplies, Internet and other communication fees, etc.
But above all, what bothers me is that it is the translator who determines his fee, not the customer. We're having problems enough with clients who have been misinformed, and come in with all kinds of wrong ideas. They think that they are the ones to determine who long the work will take, what kinds of tools we ought to use, discount structures that software companies have told them we use, etc. So the idea makes me uncomfortable.
Did I see $0.025 being proposed as a "fair rate" for some country? ▲ Collapse
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