| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8] > | Discontinue the use of 'powwow'. Thread poster: scooke
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The Misha
Local time: 19:25
Russian to English
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| I recommend you move on with your life | Aug 31, 2014 |
interpretwhisky wrote:
Hi scooke. I recommend you still sign up.
Loath that I usually am to give people unsolicited advice, I recommend that you find a better use for your self-asserted high moral perch. Your reasoning as to why you consider the word inappropriate is unclear at best and altogether presumptuous at worst. As an American, I also find your "what is now called North America" a tad offensive, because let's face it, it IS what it's now called, and has been for quite some time. Worse yet, I find your categorical tone disrespectful to the rest of us here and absolutely uncalled for. Yet, I am not going to lose sleep over it. It's called freedom of speech, and you have as much right to enjoy yours as I do mine. I am just going to shrug it off and go to bed. Life is too short and precious, and one needs to pick his battles carefully.
Do yourself a favor. Move on.
| | | | | What it means to use "powwow" | Aug 31, 2014 |
As Luis Arri Cibils noted above, a "powwow" is a sacred ceremony in Native or First Nations cultures. The term is derived from the Narragansett word powwaw, meaning "spiritual leader" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powwow ).
It is true that English (American English, in particular) has appropriated the term and diluted it, so that it now means any kind of meeting or gathering... See more As Luis Arri Cibils noted above, a "powwow" is a sacred ceremony in Native or First Nations cultures. The term is derived from the Narragansett word powwaw, meaning "spiritual leader" (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powwow ).
It is true that English (American English, in particular) has appropriated the term and diluted it, so that it now means any kind of meeting or gathering. It is also true that people who spoke English appropriated the land of indigenous people of the Americas, including sacred lands, by murder and pillage. Just because that happened does not, of course, mean that it was right. Likewise for linguistic appropriation.
In fact, the use of the term "powwow" can be viewed as a sort of linguistic repetition of or homage to Western colonialism. It is thus a kind of performative speech in which that violence is reenacted metaphorically. This, I believe, is why people may find it offensive.
In any case, there are many other perfectly good terms which could be used here, so why not choose one of them instead? (I'd vote for "get-together.") ▲ Collapse
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The Misha wrote: interpretwhisky wrote:
Hi scooke. I recommend you still sign up.
Loath that I usually am to give people unsolicited advice, I recommend that you find a better use for your self-asserted high moral perch. Your reasoning as to why you consider the word inappropriate is unclear at best and altogether presumptuous at worst. As an American, I also find your "what is now called North America" a tad offensive, because let's face it, it IS what it's now called, and has been for quite some time. Worse yet, I find your categorical tone disrespectful to the rest of us here and absolutely uncalled for. Yet, I am not going to lose sleep over it. It's called freedom of speech, and you have as much right to enjoy yours as I do mine. I am just going to shrug it off and go to bed. Life is too short and precious, and one needs to pick his battles carefully. Do yourself a favor. Move on.
I fully agree with The Misha. There is no conceivable sense in which using this term is offensive in the least. It's just a term borrowed from a different culture, that's all. Terms have been borrowed in this fashion since the dawn of human civilization. I don't see any reason for outrage.
I am baffled by your long tirade about what you see as the 'lumping together' of various native American tribes... what on earth made you think that someone somewhere failed to make the necessary distinction?
| | | | | Wrong user.... | Aug 31, 2014 |
The Misha wrote: interpretwhisky wrote:
Hi scooke. I recommend you still sign up.
Loath that I usually am to give people unsolicited advice, I recommend that you find a better use for your self-asserted high moral perch. Your reasoning as to why you consider the word inappropriate is unclear at best and altogether presumptuous at worst. As an American, I also find your "what is now called North America" a tad offensive, because let's face it, it IS what it's now called, and has been for quite some time. Worse yet, I find your categorical tone disrespectful to the rest of us here and absolutely uncalled for. Yet, I am not going to lose sleep over it. It's called freedom of speech, and you have as much right to enjoy yours as I do mine. I am just going to shrug it off and go to bed. Life is too short and precious, and one needs to pick his battles carefully. Do yourself a favor. Move on.
You quoted the wrong person. I didn't say any of those things, that was someone else in this thread.
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| Wrong user.... | Aug 31, 2014 |
FarkasAndras wrote: The Misha wrote: interpretwhisky wrote:
Hi scooke. I recommend you still sign up.
Loath that I usually am to give people unsolicited advice, I recommend that you find a better use for your self-asserted high moral perch. Your reasoning as to why you consider the word inappropriate is unclear at best and altogether presumptuous at worst. As an American, I also find your "what is now called North America" a tad offensive, because let's face it, it IS what it's now called, and has been for quite some time. Worse yet, I find your categorical tone disrespectful to the rest of us here and absolutely uncalled for. Yet, I am not going to lose sleep over it. It's called freedom of speech, and you have as much right to enjoy yours as I do mine. I am just going to shrug it off and go to bed. Life is too short and precious, and one needs to pick his battles carefully. Do yourself a favor. Move on. I fully agree with The Misha. There is no conceivable sense in which using this term is offensive in the least. It's just a term borrowed from a different culture, that's all. Terms have been borrowed in this fashion since the dawn of human civilization. I don't see any reason for outrage. I am baffled by your long tirade about what you see as the 'lumping together' of various native American tribes... what on earth made you think that someone somewhere failed to make the necessary distinction?
You quoted the wrong person. I didn't say any of those things, that was someone else in this thread.
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I never liked the word when used to describe these meetings for translators - no particular reason, just personal taste.
However, if there is any chance that it will offend people, I would say that is a good reason to stop using it in this context. Simple really.
We are translators - as such, we have to be doubly sensitive in our use of words, and aware of the effects that they may have on our fellow human beings.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:25
Member (2008)
Italian to English
The Misha wrote:
Loath that I usually am ....
Shouldn't that be "loth" ?
| | | | Balasubramaniam L. 
India
Local time: 04:55
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
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SITE LOCALIZER | What is the fuss all about? | Aug 31, 2014 |
I don't see anything wrong with the word powwow. It certainly is ugly and difficult to pronounce, but I have taken it at face value as part of the jargon of the site. Every site has the discretion to use words of its choice for its special features.
May be, not being a north American Indian (though yet Indian - the original and authentic one, not the misnomer propagated by an ill-informed sailor called Columbus, who did not know his bearings!), I fail to perceive any inherent cultur... See more I don't see anything wrong with the word powwow. It certainly is ugly and difficult to pronounce, but I have taken it at face value as part of the jargon of the site. Every site has the discretion to use words of its choice for its special features.
May be, not being a north American Indian (though yet Indian - the original and authentic one, not the misnomer propagated by an ill-informed sailor called Columbus, who did not know his bearings!), I fail to perceive any inherent cultural slight in the use of powwow by this site. That is only to be expected in a large international site like this one, which can't possibly please every taste and idiosyncrasy of its members. But that does not mean we should be touchy about real and perceived slights. There is too much bigotism already doing great harm in the world to be promoting it in this site.
Having said that, since this site caters to a multi-lingual, multi-cultural audience, the site should permit the localization of its key terms like kudoz, powwow, and others.
In Hindi, there can be several culturally appropriate choices for powwow - पंचायत (panchayat), महफ़िल (mahafil), जलसा (jalsa), गुफ़्तगू (guftagu), and many such terms can be thought of off the cuff.
Similary, other languages too can fix suitable terms for these words, and I think that would be a neat solution to this non-issue ( that is, if any solution is called for). ▲ Collapse
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:25
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with the word powwow.
No, but some do. I have never gone to a "powwow" because to do so would imply that I go along with the idea. But I would go to a GTG. (Get-together).
Words matter. The word "powwow" means I shall not be going. But going to a "cuddle" (as I think someone suggested): now that might be quite interesting !
[Edited at 2014-08-31 13:38 GMT]
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Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with the word powwow. It certainly is ugly and difficult to pronounce, but I have taken it at face value as part of the jargon of the site. Every site has the discretion to use words of its choice for its special features.
May be, not being a north American Indian (though yet Indian - the original and authentic one, not the misnomer propagated by an ill-informed sailor called Columbus, who did not know his bearings!), I fail to perceive any inherent cultural slight in the use of powwow by this site. That is only to be expected in a large international site like this one, which can't possibly please every taste and idiosyncrasy of its members. But that does not mean we should be touchy about real and perceived slights. There is too much bigotism already doing great harm in the world to be promoting it in this site.
Having said that, since this site caters to a multi-lingual, multi-cultural audience, the site should permit the localization of its key terms like kudoz, powwow, and others.
In Hindi, there can be several culturally appropriate choices for powwow - पंचायत (panchayat), महफ़िल (mahafil), जलसा (jalsa), गुफ़्तगू (guftagu), and many such terms can be thought of off the cuff.
Similary, other languages too can fix suitable terms for these words, and I think that would be a neat solution to this non-issue ( that is, if any solution is called for).
You say we shouldn't be touchy about real and perceived slights, and yet there are many words that most of us would not use, because they are offensive to certain people. As linguists, we can find words that meet our needs, so that we don't have to offend someone.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 04:55
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | On political correctness | Aug 31, 2014 |
Elizabeth Tamblin wrote: Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with the word powwow. It certainly is ugly and difficult to pronounce, but I have taken it at face value as part of the jargon of the site. Every site has the discretion to use words of its choice for its special features.
May be, not being a north American Indian (though yet Indian - the original and authentic one, not the misnomer propagated by an ill-informed sailor called Columbus, who did not know his bearings!), I fail to perceive any inherent cultural slight in the use of powwow by this site. That is only to be expected in a large international site like this one, which can't possibly please every taste and idiosyncrasy of its members. But that does not mean we should be touchy about real and perceived slights. There is too much bigotism already doing great harm in the world to be promoting it in this site.
Having said that, since this site caters to a multi-lingual, multi-cultural audience, the site should permit the localization of its key terms like kudoz, powwow, and others.
In Hindi, there can be several culturally appropriate choices for powwow - पंचायत (panchayat), महफ़िल (mahafil), जलसा (jalsa), गुफ़्तगू (guftagu), and many such terms can be thought of off the cuff.
Similarly, other languages too can fix suitable terms for these words, and I think that would be a neat solution to this non-issue ( that is, if any solution is called for). You say we shouldn't be touchy about real and perceived slights, and yet there are many words that most of us would not use, because they are offensive to certain people. As linguists, we can find words that meet our needs, so that we don't have to offend someone.
There could be a legal angle to this, such as the use of nigger in the US or अछूत (achut) in India, but in my opinion, excessive political correctness can emasculate our language, as we are left with less choice while expressing ourselves.
I personally prefer a broad-minded approach to these things, rather than a proscriptive one. I am sure proz.com did not have the intention of insulting American Indians uppermost in its mind when it chose powwow as the name for one of its features, and we should leave it at that. It has been around for 20 odd years and no one has found anything wrong with it. It has now gained the benefit of currency, and nothing is gained in my opinion by changing it.
If you would like to change it, the option is there for the localized versions of the site, which could use a different term more appropriate to its culture instead of powwow. I have suggested a few for Hindi, and other languages could do the same.
Let us not forget that proz.com site is available not only in English, but a dozen or more other languages too.
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Elizabeth Tamblin wrote:
You say we shouldn't be touchy about real and perceived slights, and yet there are many words that most of us would not use, because they are offensive to certain people.
The difference is that pretty much all of the words and definitions that you are referring to here are not found in the definitive dictionaries of two of the major English-speaking countries.
I could understand if ProZ called them holocausts. Or lynchings. But there is nothing derogatory, hateful, or racist about the use of the word powwow. I fully agree with Balasubramaniam--there is way too much real hate and real bigotry in the world and on the Internet to be stirring up more of it where there isn't even any to begin with. There are much more worthwhile fights to fight.
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It's certainly something worth thinking about.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:25
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Orrin Cummins wrote:
There are much more worthwhile fights to fight.
Yes, but this is one little "fight" as you call it that we can deal with. This thread has aroused the hope in me that the very off-putting term "pow-wow" (not because it offends some social category but because it's just silly) will be replaced by something more 21st- century.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:25
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is that some people find the word offensive, or potentially offensive, and others think it's just poorly chosen. Instead of embarking on an endless series of back and forths about political correctness, why not put it to the vote?
1. powwow
2. get-together (one of my favourites)
3. meetup (another favourite; is actually quite commonly used for such events. se... See more Whether you agree or not, the fact of the matter is that some people find the word offensive, or potentially offensive, and others think it's just poorly chosen. Instead of embarking on an endless series of back and forths about political correctness, why not put it to the vote?
1. powwow
2. get-together (one of my favourites)
3. meetup (another favourite; is actually quite commonly used for such events. see e.g.: http://www.meetup.com/cities/gb/bn2_3et/ )
4. conference
5. assembly
6. congress
7. convention
8. gathering
9. huddle
10. meeting
11. rave-up
12. thrash
13. knees-up
14. jolly
15. beanfeast
16. bunfight
17. beano
18. round table
etc.
Analyse people’s responses and choose accordingly.
Or better yet, ask us to come up with lists of synonyms and then create a poll using these.
[Edited at 2014-08-31 14:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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