| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Servidor SDL Be Global - Error 2004 Thread poster: María Laura Suárez
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Huw Watkins 
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:20
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| I'm not exceeding the 4000 word limit | Aug 28, 2014 |
SDL Support wrote:
Hi Huw,
The current allowances (per user) with the release of Language Cloud are these on the free account:
Studio 2011 : 4000 words per day
Studio 2014 : 600,000 characters per month
You can extend this limit if you have Studio 2014 by purchasing one of the various options available to you.
Regards
Paul
[Edited at 2014-08-11 13:19 GMT]
Hi Paul,
Thank you for your response. I can also confirm like some others here that I am using Studio 2011 and have not been translating anywhere near the 4000 limit. In fact this morning I have only done just over 1000 words (with no pre-translation) and the error is coming up again. It's rather annoying as while I don't rely 100% on the Beglobal translations I use it in conjunction with the MyMemory plugin to get a second opinion as I translate. I also find it deals better with tabs, capitals and UK English than the MyMemory app, so it's nice to be able to input the Beglobal option for those cases.
I would ordinarily find that 4000 words is sufficient for my daily usage. In fact until recently, I never had any problems at all with the plugin.
Also, one other question, if you go back into a segment you've already translated to make a change with BeGlobal active, does it count those words twice?
Huw
| | | | Mary Rizzo
Italy
Local time: 08:20
Italian to English
+ ...
| definitely not exceeding word limit | Sep 3, 2014 |
Hello, like others, I found that the SDL AT was (at least from my source to target) was very bad, and was quite happy to find Be Global. But suddenly, must fall back on the SDL AT because out of the blue, it is declared I've exceeded a limit. If the entire job is 4200 words, and one third through I get the message, how am I supposed to continue like this job after job, as if the sword of damocles is hanging over me!
You suggest, "purchase" something, and this I refuse to do. First ... See more Hello, like others, I found that the SDL AT was (at least from my source to target) was very bad, and was quite happy to find Be Global. But suddenly, must fall back on the SDL AT because out of the blue, it is declared I've exceeded a limit. If the entire job is 4200 words, and one third through I get the message, how am I supposed to continue like this job after job, as if the sword of damocles is hanging over me!
You suggest, "purchase" something, and this I refuse to do. First of all, the programme was VERY expensive, and i was unable to even deduct the VAT, (seems I needed some form you didn't mention during the order!) Then, no user manual, so spend valuable time learning it on my own, never getting past basic features because I also have to work. Don't and won't pay for training. If the programme is not intuitive enough, (and bugs are all over it with the tags... sometimes not even saving my target after translation...) I am loathe to toss more money at the thing!
Never was able to get it to make an Auto Suggest Dictionary... apparently, my daily word use is so much that i can't have an AT on the programme allowing me to work, but not enough to make a feature that should be there by now after 14 months of use!
What am I asking? that you either revise your daily limit, make it reflect actual usage or improve somehow the SDL AT, because after all, that was what we paid for when upwards of 600 Euro went into your bank account! Make the programme usable at a normal level or your "free service" should be incorporated because this is actually what we HAVE PURCHASED, though you continue to talk to us as if we are beggars asking for something free off of you and not customers of a quite expensive programme as it is! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:20
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| I share your frustration Mary... & the reason we appear to be "exceeding" the limit | Sep 6, 2014 |
I am finding it really annoying too when I get through perhaps a morning of work at most and the error message starts to occur. Most of the time now I can't pre-translate the file with the Beglobal AT activated (which actually saves a lot of time at the translation stage instead of waiting for each segment to be populated each time you go into it for the first time) as quite a lot of jobs have a higher word count than 4000 words.
On top of this I have found out exactly why I am exce... See more I am finding it really annoying too when I get through perhaps a morning of work at most and the error message starts to occur. Most of the time now I can't pre-translate the file with the Beglobal AT activated (which actually saves a lot of time at the translation stage instead of waiting for each segment to be populated each time you go into it for the first time) as quite a lot of jobs have a higher word count than 4000 words.
On top of this I have found out exactly why I am exceeding the limits when I've only completed 2 thousand words or so (sometimes less). What is happening is that each time I go back into a segment to correct a term or tidy it up when an afterthought occurs to me further into a translation, it counts the words again. If I am doing a find and replace, it counts them each time I go back into each segment, then again when I go back to confirm these segments and again for any subsequent revisions, proof reading or accidental clicks.
Any one sentence can therefore be counted 4, 5 or more times towards the daily 4000 limit. If you've pretranslated with BeGlobal activated, that counts too. Clearly this is a huge flaw in the calculation system and any one sentence should only be counted once. Then a genuine 4000 words is a fairly reasonable restriction, although I agree that the limit should be a little more relaxed. Sometimes rush jobs require us to translate more than 4000 a day and machine translation actually helps productivity, so why now restrict us in this flawed manner?
Now I'm afraid to go back into any segments again and the sword of damocles is a good analogy as it's really affecting my working method.
Apparently all these issues are resolved in the 2014 version, and as someone who was given the free upgrade when I purchased the 2011 upgrade licence I have a solution, thankfully - I do feel sorry for people with the 2011 version who do not though...
The only other solution I can suggest to you Mary is to try the MyMemory plugin which has no restrictions (long may this continue). I actually use it in conjunction with BeGlobal to get 2 suggestions for any one sentence which I find very helpful. The quality is roughly the same as BeGlobal, but American English and it doesn't deal with words/titles in capitals very well and puts extra spaces with tags. Definitely worth a try though.
[Edited at 2014-09-06 11:25 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | MARIA RUSSO
Argentina
Local time: 03:20
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Same error - limit not exceeded | Sep 11, 2014 |
Same frustrating error for four days now. I can see that SDL Support has not responded since last month. Has anybody found a solution to this?
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Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:20
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| See what I wrote above | Sep 12, 2014 |
Huw Watkins wrote:
...I have found out exactly why I am exceeding the limits when I've only completed 2 thousand words or so (sometimes less). What is happening is that each time I go back into a segment to correct a term or tidy it up when an afterthought occurs to me further into a translation, it counts the words again. If I am doing a find and replace, it counts them each time I go back into each segment, then again when I go back to confirm these segments and again for any subsequent revisions, proof reading or accidental clicks.
Any one sentence can therefore be counted 4, 5 or more times towards the daily 4000 limit. If you've pretranslated with BeGlobal activated, that counts too.
This is what is causing the error:
The current allowances (per user) with the release of Language Cloud are these on the free account:
Studio 2011 : 4000 words per day
Studio 2014 : 600,000 characters per month
[Edited at 2014-09-12 02:58 GMT]
| | | | MARIA RUSSO
Argentina
Local time: 03:20
Member (2008)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Still unclear | Sep 17, 2014 |
If I have not translated a single word using BeGlobal for two weeks, why do I still get the same error as soon as I start a project?
| | | | Bart Roelands (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 08:20
English to Dutch
+ ...
| This limit is crazy | Sep 27, 2014 |
I find this limit crazy! You buy an expensive product like Trados Studio and then you get limited in translating large volume documents. Which is exactly why I purchased Studio 2011 in the first place! This limit is ridiculous and how can they charge you for something like this whereas you have already paid for the sofware which included this feature in the first place. This smells like a rip off to me. I am translating a document this weekend and now get stuck with no support as it's weekend an... See more I find this limit crazy! You buy an expensive product like Trados Studio and then you get limited in translating large volume documents. Which is exactly why I purchased Studio 2011 in the first place! This limit is ridiculous and how can they charge you for something like this whereas you have already paid for the sofware which included this feature in the first place. This smells like a rip off to me. I am translating a document this weekend and now get stuck with no support as it's weekend and run into this error for the first time... Wah! So annoying! This is terribly customer unfriendly. SDL staff!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:20
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Thoughts on the 2014 LC limit | Sep 27, 2014 |
SDL Support wrote:
Hi Huw,
The current allowances (per user) with the release of Language Cloud are these on the free account:
Studio 2011 : 4000 words per day
Studio 2014 : 600,000 characters per month
You can extend this limit if you have Studio 2014 by purchasing one of the various options available to you.
Regards
Paul
[Edited at 2014-08-11 13:19 GMT]
I have now upgraded to the 2014 version, which I had the licence to but had been holding off on to avoid early product release bugs. I did a quick assessment using a sample typical document I translate of about 9000 words in order to ascertain just how much 600,000 characters with spaces is. It turns out it is more or less 90,000 words for French source, and I suspect it will be the same for my other languages as well which have a (broadly) similar grammar structure and word length. This may not hold up for languages like Finnish however, which can have very long words.
So with 90,000 words a month, if you work every single day of a 30 day month, you get 3000 words a day. This may seem limited, but the fact that it is counted on a monthly basis means you have automatic roll-overs for days you do not work in a month and Paul has very kindly taken the time to assure me by email that the problem of repeated counting when going into a segment more than once or going into a segment after pre-translation with AT activated is resolved with language cloud. If you translate more than 90,000 words a month then you have to pay a monthly subscription - but I am not sure that I know many freelancers who translate over that volume on a consistent basis, month in month out. I therefore think the best option is an upgrade to the 2014 version - get in on the next group buy or I believe SDL are having a special offer at the moment to celebrate their 30 years, if I am not mistaken.
I know we all don't like being forced to upgrade from time to time, feeling we are hard done by, but absolutely all major software companies do this in order to finance ongoing development of the product and to be able to introduce new and improved functionality and, yes, stay in business. memoQ is no exception, nor any of the other major CAT competitors.
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| Are you pretranslating with BeGlobal? | Sep 27, 2014 |
Dialecta wrote:
If I have not translated a single word using BeGlobal for two weeks, why do I still get the same error as soon as I start a project?
If you pre-translate a large project with BeGlobal then you could easily exceed this limit. The way to work with free machine translation is to only add it when you have the file open in the Editor and use it in interactive mode. This way you are very unlikely to exceed the limit.
Regards
Paul
| | | | | The Machine Translation access... | Sep 27, 2014 |
Bart Roelands wrote:
I find this limit crazy! You buy an expensive product like Trados Studio and then you get limited in translating large volume documents. Which is exactly why I purchased Studio 2011 in the first place! This limit is ridiculous and how can they charge you for something like this whereas you have already paid for the sofware which included this feature in the first place. This smells like a rip off to me. I am translating a document this weekend and now get stuck with no support as it's weekend and run into this error for the first time... Wah! So annoying! This is terribly customer unfriendly. SDL staff!!
... is part of the product you have bought. The amount you use it is not. The limits that have been set are pretty fair for a translator working in interactive mode. So if you add the MT after the file is open for translation and you use this to help you translate the file segment by segment you are very unlikely to exceed the limit.
If you pre-translate massive numbers of words with MT as part of the Project preparation then you are very likely to exceed the limit.
If you specifically want to pre-translate massive numbers then you should purchase a service that facilitates this. I don't see that there is any rip off here.
Regards
Paul
| | | | Bart Roelands (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 08:20
English to Dutch
+ ...
| When was the limit introduced then? | Sep 27, 2014 |
SDL Support wrote: Bart Roelands wrote:
I find this limit crazy! You buy an expensive product like Trados Studio and then you get limited in translating large volume documents. Which is exactly why I purchased Studio 2011 in the first place! This limit is ridiculous and how can they charge you for something like this whereas you have already paid for the sofware which included this feature in the first place. This smells like a rip off to me. I am translating a document this weekend and now get stuck with no support as it's weekend and run into this error for the first time... Wah! So annoying! This is terribly customer unfriendly. SDL staff!! ... is part of the product you have bought. The amount you use it is not. The limits that have been set are pretty fair for a translator working in interactive mode. So if you add the MT after the file is open for translation and you use this to help you translate the file segment by segment you are very unlikely to exceed the limit. If you pre-translate massive numbers of words with MT as part of the Project preparation then you are very likely to exceed the limit. If you specifically want to pre-translate massive numbers then you should purchase a service that facilitates this. I don't see that there is any rip off here. Regards Paul
Paul, what I meant was: has this limit always been in Trados Studio 2011 or has it been introduced since the launch of the Languag Cloud/Trados Studio 2014? I never came across such error before, but it could be we have never exceeded the limit before (we are now working on a larger project with several Excel sheets)... I just wonder when this limit was introduced, as I never came across it before.
If this limit already existed when I bought the product, then it may have been a coincidence we never translated over 4K words on one job a day. But if that limit has been suddenly introduced AFTER we bought the product, then I feel that is unfair. It's then like buying a car which could go 200 km/h when you bought it, but suddenly is remotely reduced to 100 km/h by the factory.
| | | | | BeGlobal Limit | Sep 28, 2014 |
Bart Roelands wrote:
If this limit already existed when I bought the product, then it may have been a coincidence we never translated over 4K words on one job a day. But if that limit has been suddenly introduced AFTER we bought the product, then I feel that is unfair. It's then like buying a car which could go 200 km/h when you bought it, but suddenly is remotely reduced to 100 km/h by the factory.
Hi Bart,
This limit was set when we introduced Language Cloud. But I think it's important to note that when you purchased Studio you did not purchase any Machine Translation. This was a free add on made available through the tool you purchased. This could always change, in the same way Google started charging for example. Can we be held responsible for Google Translate starting to charge too just because we provided the mechanism to connect to it?
Providing Machine Translation costs any provider money. In the early days there was less demand, and many translators even said they would never use it. However, the situation today is very different and we have found that somewhere around 90%+ of people using the free BeGlobal Community account use less than 4000 words a day. Then we have varying levels of use above this extending to hundreds of thousands of words a day.
So we have limited this to help us continue to provide a reasonable free service for translators using MT interactively as they work and also cater for those users who are clearly looking for more benefits than this by introducing a charging structure and enhanced capabilities they can benefit from.
Regards
Paul
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Bart Roelands (X)
Netherlands
Local time: 08:20
English to Dutch
+ ...
| In response to Paul | Sep 28, 2014 |
Hello Paul,
Your explanation is clear, thank you, though I always thought it was just a part of the Studio software, as it always comes up when installing the software and I thought it was not limited. As I understand from previous posts in this thread, the limit of MT words in Studio 2014 is much higher, right, and calculated per month instead of per day basis?
Do you know if there is any promotion coming up or can we discuss any ways for us to upgrade our software to ... See more Hello Paul,
Your explanation is clear, thank you, though I always thought it was just a part of the Studio software, as it always comes up when installing the software and I thought it was not limited. As I understand from previous posts in this thread, the limit of MT words in Studio 2014 is much higher, right, and calculated per month instead of per day basis?
Do you know if there is any promotion coming up or can we discuss any ways for us to upgrade our software to Studio 2014 at an affordable price? If so, we'd be interested to hear about any upcoming promotions, group buying, etc. which we could take advantage of. Thank you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Huw Watkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:20
Member (2005)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Why penalise usage and impose limits based on flawed counting methods? | Sep 30, 2014 |
SDL Support wrote:
However, the situation today is very different and we have found that somewhere around 90%+ of people using the free BeGlobal Community account use less than 4000 words a day. Then we have varying levels of use above this extending to hundreds of thousands of words a day.
So we have limited this to help us continue to provide a reasonable free service for translators using MT interactively as they work and also cater for those users who are clearly looking for more benefits than this by introducing a charging structure and enhanced capabilities they can benefit from.
Regards
Paul
Hi Paul,
Here I have to strongly disagree with what you are saying. As you know and as established in our email conversation detailing my usage over the past 12 months, I was one of the 10% 'exceeding' what you term as reasonable use/a reasonable service. However, we quickly established that I was clearly NOT looking for more benefits and it purely came down to my working method. As I've detailed above, my pretranslating with AT active (an option SDL provide in studio so nothing underhand going on there) coupled with often revisiting segments to continually improve my work throughout the translation, editing and proof reading stages was taking me well above and beyond the actual amount I was translating. I was not feeding in reams of documents into the machine and getting some sort of financial gain from this as you seem to be implying. Not really sure what looking for more benefits actually means, perhaps you could expand on that?
The fact is this: the SDL counting method is utterly flawed.
Interactive use, as you coin it, is exactly that. You use each segment interactively as you see fit and if that means revisiting your work to fine tune it or replace terminology with better options then there is absolutely no reason why this should be penalised or why you should not have access to the MT offered to you originally - it doesn't change, it's exactly the same result. Counting words in segments more than once towards the daily limit is simply flawed - there's no other way of putting it. I get paid once for that segment no matter how many times I visit it and perfect it. Being accused of taking advantage of your service as 'looking for more benefits' because of this working method is mildly insulting to be honest (although I am sure you don't mean to be personal about this). I am a normal freelancer with my own particular working method. Perhaps my working method is only in the 5 or 10 per cent, but it makes it no less valid as any one of my clients will confirm. I notice you saw fit to post a find and replace video on your google plus profile to help translators, so it seems I am not so alone in this after all.
I see that this is not fixed in the 2014 version either. An option has been introduced where you have to choose to "Look up segments in MT even if a TM match has been found". Therefore, based on my method I cannot go back into a segment and compare the TM match with the vocabulary or phrasing offered by Language Cloud (and the mymemory plugin) without, once again, the words counting towards the monthly limit in a duplicated manner. This, I would argue, is anything but interactive use.
The only way I see now to use LC is to do the exact opposite to what you say: pretranslate with LC active and then only use mymemory in the interactive stage - otherwise I am going to falsely exceed the limit SDL imposes. Obviously this still restricts my preferred working method and surmounts to skirting the issue rather than fixing it.
If SDL could sort out this flaw in the duplicated counting of words, then I feel the limit is fair and reflects everything you say in this forum, as things stand, your argument simply does not hold water.
A proposed fix - is there any way for the MT result to be automatically entered into a project or other translation memory as a fuzzy match, thus only being counted once when it is first offered, but available for review any number of times thereafter?
[Edited at 2014-09-30 10:57 GMT]
| | | | | Working interactively | Oct 2, 2014 |
Hello Huw,
When I said "looking for more benefits" I was referring to those users who are considerably overdoing these limits... and not just by a small amount. These kinds of volumes cannot be for personal use as you would use it. This was part of my explanation for the implementation of a limit.
The problem we have is that all MT is based on sending the source up to a server and asking that server to return a result. There is no mechanism built in to look at the st... See more Hello Huw,
When I said "looking for more benefits" I was referring to those users who are considerably overdoing these limits... and not just by a small amount. These kinds of volumes cannot be for personal use as you would use it. This was part of my explanation for the implementation of a limit.
The problem we have is that all MT is based on sending the source up to a server and asking that server to return a result. There is no mechanism built in to look at the status of anything in Studio and even if there was what would it be?
The new option in Studio 2014 is designed to prevent the lookup of MT if a match has been found from the TM. This is because most users won't need an MT match when working with MT this way if they have a result from their TM already. If you do then you check the box and you'll get one, but obviously it comes at a cost.
The only way round this, other than paying for additional MT use, is perhaps to do something like this.
- Pre-translate the file (or as much of the file as you see fit for a days work) with your TM only
- Use the sdlxliff toolkit to export all the segments that are not 100% to a new sdlxliff
- Pretranslate this new sdlxliff with MT
- Create a new TM and update this new MT translated sdlxliff into it (maybe add a field value to make sure you know it was MT)
- Add this MT TM to your Project (penalised so you don't get 100% matches) and turn off the MT
I don't think this would take very long and the advantage is that you could look up this TM as much as you like without paying again for the processing of MT on the server.
Longer term we will look at something to provide users with more granular control over MT in Studio. Perhaps a keyboard short-cut to apply MT on demand, or something like this. So you work in review without it and only ask for MT when you need it... but obviously paying for the result as each lookup will have a wordcount. But it will be more controlled.
If you have better ideas on how to manage this I'l like to hear them (apart from increasing the limit or giving it away for free!) so it reflects the working practice of yourself, and perhaps other translators.
Regards
Paul ▲ Collapse
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