| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | The impact of touch typing on words per day productivty Thread poster: John Moran
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| The one-fingered typist | Jan 20, 2014 |
Well, I do have ten fingers, but I typ with one finger only, the middle finger of my left hand, the one I give the finger with. In my twenty years as a translator, I translated dozens of books, hundreds (thousands?) of manuals, and myriads of other documents.
I decided to do the test referred to above. No preparation, first (and only) time result:
Not bad, I think, and English isn't my native language. My daughter (yes, Meta) can touch-typ, but her English isn't at my level yet, and it showed: Her results - same circumstances - were slightly worse than mine.
I don't think it's worthwhile for me to start touch-typing, at my age. Now if there's a trick to speed-up my brain...
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | Mark Benson (X) 
English to Swedish
+ ...
| Maybe not a bad idea, but flawed assumtion | Jan 20, 2014 |
John Moran wrote:
Thanks for clarifying Tom. I see what you are saying. It makes a lot of sense. To take myself as an example, I normally translate around 2,500 words per day in around five hours of active translation. I type at between 50 and 60 words per minute (WPM) so presumably touch typing at 90 WPM would only make a fractional difference to my per day earnings as I am typing at 20% of my full speed on average when I translate. Conversely, the slowdown prior to 80 WPM touch-typing mastery might only impact fractionally too though. However, small numbers can accumulate over time.
Numerically, we don't know what difference touch typing makes on words per day productivity so lets postulate on the basis of round numbers. Some people in this discussion who can touch type feel it is an aid to productivity. Let's start with +100 words per day and assume I earn €.10 per word.
Over the course of a year with 200 working days the difference is €2,000. That is a holiday. Over a working lifetime, say 50 years, that is the price of a small holiday home. This assumes, of course, that I didn't take that holiday - which is a hell of an assumption.
My agenda here is that where I work, a research institute in Ireland called the Centre for Next Generation Localisation, we have developed a piece of software called iOmegaT that can record User Activity Data including keystroke data in OmegaT. It works well on live translation projects. Think of it as software that can replay how you typed a translation and you will get the picture.
I would really like to use our software to build a case for bringing touch-typing back into translator education. Some of our industrial partners are translation companies so I plan to pitch it to them.
You can't claim that touch typing is worth 1000s of Euro. Please stop that immediately as it is misleading!
If your software will only work in Omega then I'm afraid you will remain behind. What we need now is auto-correction that can be built up and tweaked universally in ALL applications where we type.
Please note: It should be possible to type the intended words even with severe inaccuracies. You could probably be very successful with this, if you can make it.
On the other hand tablets are increasingly available to laymen and maybe learning shorthand will suit many better.
Or just drawing liked I am doing in Android right now. That's right I am drawing this text.
Please understand, 4000 words per day is not a level of productivity that requires touch typing, and it's highly unlikely that a translator really needs touch typing for anything.
You can probably market it anyways, and best of luck, but please be aware of the reality behind things too.
It's just a matter of how much of your workday you spend typing, or how else you get your translations delivered (let's continue to mention Dragon).
To revolutionize, you have to have a software that can be used between apps and platforms, and that's capable of helping 1 total beginners go from zero to say 45 in one month at most, and 2 that will be the new thing I'm anticipating for those of us who can touch type, where we no longer have to be accurate at all and 100 wpm becomes a minimum.
| | | | | No direct impact on words per day | Jan 20, 2014 |
We had touch typing classes in high school (on typewriters!) and it has proven to be a very useful skill. Later in life when I started working in France, I had to re-learn touch typing for the French keyboard, I have no regret for the time it took - around 6 months perhaps? I also do a lot of typing in French, it comes in very handy. It is also useful for use with CAT tools, my fingers have memorized the various shortcuts now.
However, I feel that touch typing has no direct impact ... See more We had touch typing classes in high school (on typewriters!) and it has proven to be a very useful skill. Later in life when I started working in France, I had to re-learn touch typing for the French keyboard, I have no regret for the time it took - around 6 months perhaps? I also do a lot of typing in French, it comes in very handy. It is also useful for use with CAT tools, my fingers have memorized the various shortcuts now.
However, I feel that touch typing has no direct impact on translation output, for the simple reason that translation is a much slower process than "just typing". I think my typing speed is around 60 wpm, so around 3600/hour - if only I could translate as fast as I type, I would be rich!!
Better ways to improve productivity (for me) include avoiding distractions (I have problems with focus!!) and perhaps taking on more projects within my area of expertise - on certain types of projects I can translate 500 words/hour, on others where more research/brain gymnastics is required, it can go down to 200 words/hour or even less. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Up to 100 wpm, it does affect my speed | Jan 20, 2014 |
I don't get bottlenecked as much as most translators, but I still do sometimes. Being capable of putting in 120 or 150 would certainly make me even faster with texts that don't require too much analysing.
The fact I don't need to mind my fingers and the keyboard allows me to keep thinking while typing. In some cases I can type almost as fast as I think, which is sort of similar to very efficient dictation. I'm really glad I no longer hang around 30-40 wpm. This said, in most cases o... See more I don't get bottlenecked as much as most translators, but I still do sometimes. Being capable of putting in 120 or 150 would certainly make me even faster with texts that don't require too much analysing.
The fact I don't need to mind my fingers and the keyboard allows me to keep thinking while typing. In some cases I can type almost as fast as I think, which is sort of similar to very efficient dictation. I'm really glad I no longer hang around 30-40 wpm. This said, in most cases one just can't cope with the mental strain of translating so fast over extended periods of time. You need either to slow down or to have some rest from time to time. This probably means slower typists aren't necessarily much slower translators.
[Edited at 2014-01-20 11:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Roy OConnor (X)
Local time: 12:58
German to English
| Like riding a bike | Jan 20, 2014 |
I learnt to touch type as a teenager from the text books brought home by my mother who was doing a typing course. I never actually did much typing after that until about 25 years later when I started translating. I initially used the hunt and peck method, but found it very slow and so tried touch typing again. I was soon able to reach a decent speed. So once learnt, never forgotten!
BTW, regarding fatigue, if you are a right-hander using a conventional keyboard with the number block... See more I learnt to touch type as a teenager from the text books brought home by my mother who was doing a typing course. I never actually did much typing after that until about 25 years later when I started translating. I initially used the hunt and peck method, but found it very slow and so tried touch typing again. I was soon able to reach a decent speed. So once learnt, never forgotten!
BTW, regarding fatigue, if you are a right-hander using a conventional keyboard with the number block on the right, try using your left hand to operate the mouse. After initial difficulties, you might find it much more comfortable! ▲ Collapse
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John Moran wrote:
If I were a translator thinking about learning to touch type would that time investment pay off for me?
I am particularly interested in the hearing from anybody who has taught himself or herself to touch type and whether that person noticed any productivity gain in terms of words per day when translating.
This was almost 20 years ago, but at the beginning of my career I decided to learn to touch-type, although not in a proper manner I have to confess... I do not use all fingers. I simply decided that it was absurd to look at the keyboard all the time and started giving it a try. It was a mess for a couple of days, but I quickly managed to type without looking at the keyboard.
My estimate is that with this relatively simple change I gained about 60-70% productivity. I would however strongly recommend new translators to learn to touchtype properly with all fingers and thus reduce the strain on your fingers during long hours of work.
| | | | | Typingtest.com | Jan 20, 2014 |
80 wpm - 24 words with errors - adjusted speed 56 wpm. English is not my mother tongue either. Clearly there is always room for improvement!
| | | | Arianne Farah
Canada
Local time: 06:58
Member (2008)
English to French
| Went to try, just for fun | Jan 20, 2014 |
I thought English would be faster than French, since there are no accents, but I was wrong - 77 wpm English, 82 wpm French. I guess translating into French all day, every day, has increased my speed.
As for the thread's main question - I wouldn't even know where to start to compare - I learnt to touch type when I was 11, in high school and I've kept the same keyboard layout ever since (even though it doesn't match what's printed on the keys themselves).
Frankly I could... See more I thought English would be faster than French, since there are no accents, but I was wrong - 77 wpm English, 82 wpm French. I guess translating into French all day, every day, has increased my speed.
As for the thread's main question - I wouldn't even know where to start to compare - I learnt to touch type when I was 11, in high school and I've kept the same keyboard layout ever since (even though it doesn't match what's printed on the keys themselves).
Frankly I couldn't imagine having to break my train of thought to look for keys - as someone said earlier, it's all muscle memory - I don't think it's the typing speed per se that would be a time saver, it's being able to get the perfect thought written out before it returns to the ether. Translation is all start & stop - the stops are when you're thinking & researching, the starts are the typing and the perfect moments are when you can type as fast as you think and vice versa.
The typing games are a great way to get your speed and accuracy up and you can do them as you're watching TV - since the whole point is not to look at your keyboard and the sentence you have to type can be read in a fraction of a second.
Also, the ability to close & rest your eyes as you're typing out a long sentence can help protect against eye strain. I just typed out this whole sentence without opening my eyes ▲ Collapse
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| typing test - why it may matter | Jan 20, 2014 |
68 wpm with no error (Luminosity site). That is twice the 33 wpm with one-finger typing, and so also twice the potential productivity. "No spelling error" is actually not important, so one can up the ante, since we will have spell check, and I proofread each page as I go.
I do a lot of smaller projects, and mostly material that is on paper or in PDF form - the stuff many people reject so it becomes my fodder. Therefore I don't use CAT tools that will do things automatically, and ... See more 68 wpm with no error (Luminosity site). That is twice the 33 wpm with one-finger typing, and so also twice the potential productivity. "No spelling error" is actually not important, so one can up the ante, since we will have spell check, and I proofread each page as I go.
I do a lot of smaller projects, and mostly material that is on paper or in PDF form - the stuff many people reject so it becomes my fodder. Therefore I don't use CAT tools that will do things automatically, and typing speed is still important.
Addendum: Touch typing was part of high school curriculum in the late 1960's and early 1970's. We graduated to the "new" electric typewriters, from the skin-scraping manual ones.
[Edited at 2014-01-20 16:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Maxi Schwarz wrote:
That is twice the 33 wpm with one-finger typing, and so also twice the potential productivity.
Make that "potentially twice the productivity", Maxi. That said, I'm pretty sure, touch-typing won't increase my productivity with a single word a day. I'm not exactly fond of the term "average", but on average, I'm afraid I do the average number of words a day (2-2,500) in the average time (5-6 hours). After that time, I'm probably tired, my head may explode, but my finger (yes, that one), is still as good as new.
In Holland, in the late 1960's - early 1970's, typing wasn't part of the grammar school curriculum, but most of my classmates took private classes anyway. My parents didn't want me to go, "If you don't have a secretary later, you failed." I failed, I guess, and they failed to anticipate the digital area, and my obsession with computers. I did have to join dancing classes though, but I'd have preferred typing, even though I was allowed a beer or two during the break.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | John Moran
Ireland
Local time: 11:58
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Not trying to mislead, just debate. | Jan 21, 2014 |
Mark Benson wrote:
You can't claim that touch typing is worth 1000s of Euro. Please stop that immediately as it is misleading!
Well I did use the word "postulate". Maybe I should have written that we could knock off work a bit earlier instead of putting it in money terms. I am not trying to sell anything here. I just want to get a handle on the impact of touch-typing on productivity that goes beyond the data that we have gathered in some pretty large scale productivity tests (44 days of data across 22 translators in each test).
We ran some statistics on our data this morning and we do see a weak correlation between typing speed and overall translation speed. If it were a strong correlation, I don't think translator training schools would have taken it off the curriculum.
Mark Benson wrote:
If your software will only work in Omega then I'm afraid you will remain behind. What we need now is auto-correction that can be built up and tweaked universally in ALL applications where we type.
Please note: It should be possible to type the intended words even with severe inaccuracies. You could probably be very successful with this, if you can make it.
There are some really innovative input applications on Android that combine stochastic language models and key proximity information. You just have to type near the intended key on the touchscreen and the software guesses what you intended. I think this is what you are referring to. I agree this might be a really good idea for translators. However, while a program that runs as a service on a PC and corrects typing in any application is technically conceivable the problem is you would *really* have to trust it. I would not download or use software like that unless it came from a large company I trusted or was open-source as it could log my online banking passwords. I.T. security people in large companies would never allow it.
I'm going to stick to OmegaT for now.
Mark Benson wrote:
On the other hand tablets are increasingly available to laymen and maybe learning shorthand will suit many better.
The world record for sustained typing is 140 WPM versus the world record for shorthand at 350 WPM. You might be on to something. I suppose it depends on how well the software can recognise shorthand and how long it takes to master. My money is still on Automatic Speech Recognition.
Mark Benson wrote:
Please understand, 4000 words per day is not a level of productivity that requires touch typing, and it's highly unlikely that a translator really needs touch typing for anything.
I am not claiming that anything is needed. I am suggesting it might be desirable to reintroduce touch typing in translator training colleges for students who have not learned it properly in school. Is anyone aware of any college where it is taught? Dublin City University in Dublin do not teach it as far as I am aware. I taught technical translation for a few years in the 90's in Trinity College Dublin. It is not and probably never will be on the agenda there.
Just to be clear, I am saying that touch typing *might* be the difference between translating an average of 2600 words per day instead of 2500 words per day. I fully agree based on my own research that translators who reach speeds above 4,000 words per day are using either predictive typing, Dragon Dictate or machine translation and other factors come into play like experience. However, all of these technologies still require typing so I don't see how it is misleading to suggest that touch typing could be worth 1000's of Euros. Imagine what would happen to your productivity if we gave you a CAT tool that artificially reduces your typing speed to 40 WPM in every second segment.
Nuts, another iOmegaT A/B test idea! Memo to self - cut out the evil scientist routine!
| | | | | How is this possible? | Jan 21, 2014 |
John Moran wrote:
We ran some statistics on our data this morning and we do see a weak correlation between typing speed and overall translation speed. If it were a strong correlation, I don't think translator training schools would have taken it off the curriculum.
I don't quite get this. You can't translate faster than you can type. If a one-finger typist can go a maximum of 33 wpm, and if I can go 68 wpm, then for an easy text I will have produced twice as many words in the same time. "Twice as fast" has to make a significant difference.
When you run statistics on data, how does that work? Do you have people who can and cannot touch type both doing the same work of the same difficulty? Are there other variables?
[Edited at 2014-01-21 07:14 GMT]
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LEXpert
United States
Local time: 05:58
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
| Value of touch-typing depends on whether you are acquiring or losing it | Jan 21, 2014 |
John Moran wrote: Mark Benson wrote:
You can't claim that touch typing is worth 1000s of Euro. Please stop that immediately as it is misleading!
I've been a touch-typist since taking a typing course in high school (therefore, some... - well, let's just say "a long time").
Results on typing tests today:
Touch typing: 65 wpm (net/adjusted)
Two-finger hunt-and-peck: 15 (!) wpm.
Absent the development of compensatory mechanisms (speech recognition, hiring a typist), I think that losing my touch-typing ability (from an injury, for example) would easily result in productivity/financial losses on the scale of what John represents, if not considerably more. If I had already developed a relatively fast non-touch method, the gain in acquiring the skill might be less, depending on the type of text.
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:58
French to English
| Losing inspiration "to the ether" | Jan 21, 2014 |
Arianne Farah wrote:
Frankly I couldn't imagine having to break my train of thought to look for keys - as someone said earlier, it's all muscle memory - I don't think it's the typing speed per se that would be a time saver, it's being able to get the perfect thought written out before it returns to the ether. Translation is all start & stop - the stops are when you're thinking & researching, the starts are the typing and the perfect moments are when you can type as fast as you think and vice versa.
Arianne this just about sums it up. Losing my inspiration "to the ether" is the most frustrating thing ever and I have always been glad to rap out my prose more or less at the speed of thought crystallisation.
I took a typing course at the tender age of 20 thinking that if worst came to worst I could always get a job as a secretary. I was then hired to manage the typing classes, doubling up as secretary to the sales guy, and then was transferred to a more exciting department in charge of producing language learning software, best salaried work I ever had. I have never regretted learning to touch type, in fact it was probably the best thing I did to kick start my career.
| | | | John Moran
Ireland
Local time: 11:58
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | All we know is typing speed | Jan 21, 2014 |
Maxi Schwarz wrote: John Moran wrote:
We ran some statistics on our data this morning and we do see a weak correlation between typing speed and overall translation speed. If it were a strong correlation, I don't think translator training schools would have taken it off the curriculum. I don't quite get this. You can't translate faster than you can type. If a one-finger typist can go a maximum of 33 wpm, and if I can go 68 wpm, then for an easy text I will have produced twice as many words in the same time. "Twice as fast" has to make a significant difference. When you run statistics on data, how does that work? Do you have people who can and cannot touch type both doing the same work of the same difficulty? Are there other variables? [Edited at 2014-01-21 07:14 GMT]
No, we don't know much about the translators except that they are professional translators. We can measure their overall productivity in terms of the number of words they translate in the day and we estimate their maximum typing speed by looking for bursts of keystrokes chained together with low digraph latency (the time between the keystrokes). All 22 translators translated the same set of source files into 11 languages over two days. The material was technical I.T. text of the kind they are used to working on.
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