| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Why does the EU only want translators with THREE languages, not TWO? Thread poster: Michael Beijer
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Where translators are also used as interpreters (the notion that these two are separate professions largely comes from the two different nouns in English, which is not the same in other languages), a multingual public employer may want all people to work in several pairs for convenience. I'm not sure to what extent a native speaker of, say, Greek would be used by the EU for EnglishFrench interpreting (not that I would be extremely surprised by that), but EnglishGreek AND FrenchGreek is a whole d... See more Where translators are also used as interpreters (the notion that these two are separate professions largely comes from the two different nouns in English, which is not the same in other languages), a multingual public employer may want all people to work in several pairs for convenience. I'm not sure to what extent a native speaker of, say, Greek would be used by the EU for EnglishFrench interpreting (not that I would be extremely surprised by that), but EnglishGreek AND FrenchGreek is a whole different story.
For employees who are solely translators (of written texts), they may still want to capitalize on familiarity with the relevant subject matters, conventions and requirements and so on.
For rarer languages, it may be more economic to have a smaller double-hatting team than a crowd of part-time employees.
Otherwise they may be less than thoughtful in just simply presuming that translators must operate in several languages each.
Besides, applied linguistics is not an area blessed with conventional intelligence and rational thinking. For example:
— No problem translating from six different foreign languages into one native's language (how many B languages can one realistically have? how frequent are exceptions). But don't you dare work in just two pairs: foreign-to-native and native-to-foreign.
— Translators are not supposed to work into a non-native language, but interpreters need to for natural or obvious reasons. Seriously? It's possible to hire two one-way target-native interpreters, AND there are benefits of translating both ways, just like interpreting. But nope. 'Professional' standards.
— Gotta be target-native to translate because of nuance or something. But people translating out of languages they're B2/C1 is not a problem. Nuance, my foot.
And so on and so forth. Hard to expect too much rational thinking in a field like this one. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X) 
Spain
Local time: 19:28
Spanish to English
+ ...
... for the boys/girls?
I applied for the EU in the dim and distant past. Many, many hoops to jump through, as others have said, and I was informed that if you don't have a relation/friend/mentor etc. working there already, forget it, although maybe Teresa Borges, with hands-on experience of the issue, could comment on this (?).
"University degrees are secondary - just come over to Brussels and make yourself known to someone", was one local Euro MP's quoted advice on t... See more ... for the boys/girls?
I applied for the EU in the dim and distant past. Many, many hoops to jump through, as others have said, and I was informed that if you don't have a relation/friend/mentor etc. working there already, forget it, although maybe Teresa Borges, with hands-on experience of the issue, could comment on this (?).
"University degrees are secondary - just come over to Brussels and make yourself known to someone", was one local Euro MP's quoted advice on the subject at that time. I was told - after 18 months - that I had failed the translation test in my stronger language, and had passed the test in my weaker combination.
Mervyn ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's not true! | Jul 25, 2014 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... for the boys/girls?
I applied for the EU in the dim and distant past. Many, many hoops to jump through, as others have said, and I was informed that if you don't have a relation/friend/mentor etc. working there already, forget it, although maybe Teresa Borges, with hands-on experience of the issue, could comment on this (?).
"University degrees are secondary - just come over to Brussels and make yourself known to someone", was one local Euro MP's quoted advice on the subject at that time. I was told - after 18 months - that I had failed the translation test in my stronger language, and had passed the test in my weaker combination.
Mervyn
It's not true and it does infuriate me. When I applied I knew nobody! Anyway, all the (many) written tests are anonymous and in my case even after being in the shortlist of the 15 lucky few (we were more than 20,000 potential candidates) who overcame all the hurdles (psychological tests, general culture tests, EU knowledge tests, translation tests, interview…) I had to wait 3 long years to be called...
[Edited at 2014-07-25 17:30 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 19:28
Spanish to English
+ ...
OK Teresa, thanks. If you say so, I'll believe you. I'm the cynical kind.
Mervyn
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| You cannot do without French | Aug 12, 2014 |
English is needed by default. But did you know that in Luxembourg, at the Court of Justice of the European Union, and the remainder of the “associated” Courts, the language of the judgments, all judgments, is French? Not all judges are fluent in French, so legal secretaries draft judgments and then these judgments are translated into the rest of the EU official languages, from French! No exceptions.
I guess the reason they ask the translators to have at least two source languag... See more English is needed by default. But did you know that in Luxembourg, at the Court of Justice of the European Union, and the remainder of the “associated” Courts, the language of the judgments, all judgments, is French? Not all judges are fluent in French, so legal secretaries draft judgments and then these judgments are translated into the rest of the EU official languages, from French! No exceptions.
I guess the reason they ask the translators to have at least two source languages is that you cannot really make it without English and French.
When I was visiting the Court in Luxembourg, I saw this huge tower just next to the Court building. It was densely populated with lawyer linguists, from all over the Europe. This tower really dwarfs the Court building.
[Edited at 2014-08-12 12:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Who has a perfect command of any language? | Aug 12, 2014 |
Do you have a perfect command of ...
Of course I don't, and I suspect that no one else does either. I was totally immersed in U.S. English for fifty-two years, but my English is not perfect and it never will be. I wish folks would stop referring to "perfect command." Why not simply use a system like the CEFR and refer to C2 level proficiency?
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:28
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | The Tower of Babel! | Aug 12, 2014 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
English is needed by default. But did you know that in Luxembourg, at the Court of Justice of the European Union, and the remainder of the “associated” Courts, the language of the judgments, all judgments, is French? Not all judges are fluent in French, so legal secretaries draft judgments and then these judgments are translated into the rest of the EU official languages, from French! No exceptions.
I guess the reason they ask the translators to have at least two source languages is that you cannot really make it without English and French.
When I was visiting the Court in Luxembourg, I saw this huge tower just next to the Court building. It was densely populated with lawyer linguists, from all over the Europe. This tower really dwarfs the Court building.
[Edited at 2014-08-12 12:24 GMT]
Interesting point Merab!
Michael
| | | | | Are you sure? | Aug 12, 2014 |
Merab Dekano wrote:
But did you know that in Luxembourg, at the Court of Justice of the European Union, and the remainder of the “associated” Courts, the language of the judgments, all judgments, is French? Not all judges are fluent in French, so legal secretaries draft judgments and then these judgments are translated into the rest of the EU official languages, from French! No exceptions.
[Edited at 2014-08-12 12:24 GMT]
The Court of Justice has one judge per EU Member State. I do have serious doubts that draft judgements are drawn up by legal secretaries... The Court of Justice of the European Union is a multilingual institution. Its language arrangements have no equivalent in any other court in the world, since each of the official languages of the European Union can be the language of a case. The Court is required to observe the principle of multilingualism in full, because of the need to communicate with the parties in the language of the proceedings and to ensure that its case-law is disseminated throughout the Member States.
PS I did work as in-house translator at an EU institution for 20 years but never at the Court of Justice...
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It sounds very exciting, Teresa. You did have a nice job . 20 years of service at an institution is huge experience.
I studied EU law at the University of Leicester and we had a Court visit. We attended the actual court session relating to an IP case involving a Danish company (cannot recall details now). You are right, the attorneys spoke their respective native languages and there was interpretation service in place... See more It sounds very exciting, Teresa. You did have a nice job. 20 years of service at an institution is huge experience.
I studied EU law at the University of Leicester and we had a Court visit. We attended the actual court session relating to an IP case involving a Danish company (cannot recall details now). You are right, the attorneys spoke their respective native languages and there was interpretation service in place (by the way, not “top” level one, as there was legal terminology involved and the interpreters clearly did not have legal background). Now, the written proceedings are different story. It is all in French.
I personally spoke to a legal secretary who told me judges brief them on the case structure, strategy, policies or politics. Then it is legal secretary’s job to draft the case in “perfect” French. I too was amazed.
Not that Wikipedia is an authority, but I quote it anyway: “However the working language of the court is French and it is in this language that the judges deliberate…” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice). I can search for more reliable source of information, but all indicate that the guy was not lying.
[Edited at 2014-08-12 23:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I'm retired now... | Aug 13, 2014 |
Never heard of such a thing and it sounds completely "out of touch" with what was my experience in the EU (Council, Parliament, EESC, Commitee of the Regions).
| | | | Inge Luus
South Africa
Local time: 19:28
Member (2008)
German to English
+ ...
| | Always learning, thanks! | Aug 13, 2014 |
Inge Luus wrote: For interest, here is a link to a job advert for a legal secretary at the European Court of Justice: http://eutopialaw.com/2013/02/06/vacancy-legal-secretary-referendaire-to-judge-vajda-at-the-european-court-of-justice-luxembourg/ Some short excerpts: "The post involves providing advice on both substantive and procedural points of law arising in cases before the CJEU to Judge Vajda, preparing drafts of judgments and procedural documents, as well as contributing to the deliberations of the Court through written notes. The internal working language of the CJEU being French, all written work will have to be carried out almost exclusively in French." "Applicants should be qualified to practise law or have taught law full time at university level, he fluent in both English and French, and be fully conversant with European Union law." So, it is true that legal secretaries (qualified lawyers or law lecturers) draft the judgements in French at the CJEU.
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