| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Translation theory in practice. Thread poster: LilyLowe
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DLyons 
Ireland
Local time: 10:08
Spanish to English
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| There is nothing as practical as a good theory. | Aug 27, 2015 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Albert Einstein said:
“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
But he's also reputed to have said "There is nothing as practical as a good theory".
Perhaps it's good theories we are short of.
| | | | | Does the everyday irrelevance of E=mc² ... | Aug 27, 2015 |
make physics useless for practical purposes? Basic research along the lines of 200-page books about "What is translation?" only make up a tiny fraction of the scholarly literature on translation studies. Was the asker asking about "Theory" with a capital "T" or about translation studies in general?
I admit that I basically never take the time to read any of this, but Christine has given some examples and I can specifically recall reading an interesting article statistically compari... See more make physics useless for practical purposes? Basic research along the lines of 200-page books about "What is translation?" only make up a tiny fraction of the scholarly literature on translation studies. Was the asker asking about "Theory" with a capital "T" or about translation studies in general?
I admit that I basically never take the time to read any of this, but Christine has given some examples and I can specifically recall reading an interesting article statistically comparing the frequency of passive voice in German and English. There are also comparative analyses of the use of specific grammatical structures in instruction manuals varying across languages and probably about any other practical issue you can think of.
So, practically irrelevant translation theory is practically irrelevant, but most translation theory is about practical matters. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vero Nika
Czech Republic
Local time: 11:08
English to Czech
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| That's interesting. | Aug 27, 2015 |
My field was directly Translation Studies. I find translation theory very useful, and I believe that missing some bits of theory can result in a translation that simply doesn't work in the target culture.
For example:
- the sentence "Hodor is seven feet tall" from Game of Thrones was translated into Czech using feet instead of centimetres, but most Czech readers have no idea how much a feet is, so the meaning (= Hodor is a huge gorilla) has disappeared in the translati... See more My field was directly Translation Studies. I find translation theory very useful, and I believe that missing some bits of theory can result in a translation that simply doesn't work in the target culture.
For example:
- the sentence "Hodor is seven feet tall" from Game of Thrones was translated into Czech using feet instead of centimetres, but most Czech readers have no idea how much a feet is, so the meaning (= Hodor is a huge gorilla) has disappeared in the translation. Similarly, theory teaches you when you should keep the feet and not switch to centimetres
- when the source text is English and contains words with Japanese/Russian origin, the translator cannot simply keep them how they are in English, but has to re-transcribe them to reflect the different pronunciation of some letters in the target language (Ovechkin is Ovečkin in Czech, Kyushu is Kjúšú)
- blank verse in an English text cannot be always translated into Czech by using blank verse, because it's a very unusual verse in our culture with almost no tradition (unlike rhymed verse)
- theory teaches you that you can even modify the text (use more explicit/informal/simplified/etc language) if your target reader differs from the reader of the source text (e.g. the source text aims at university students and professors, while the target text is intended for general public of all ages)
- it teaches you that unintended errors and mistakes in the source text should be discussed and corrected in the translation because you translate the intended meaning and purpose, not the empty words
- ...which is the most important idea (unknown to some autodidacts): you translate ideas, not words, so idioms cannot be translated word-by-word, and if there is an abbreviation you don't understand, you cannot simply keep it unchanged in the target text.
All of these are actual examples of mistakes I came across in TV, literature and business translations, and it's also why I believe that theory is not so useless. ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 05:08
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Theory is useful in practice | Aug 28, 2015 |
Without knowing any translation theory you could still be a good translator but the knowledge of translation theory can make you a better translator, and the more theory you know, the better you can be practice-wise.
The reason is simple: Theories can guide you in practice; Theories can give you a lot of hints; Theories enrich your mind; Theories widen your horizon. You can be enlightened and become more insightful with some knowledge of theory in your mind.
I'm lost wh... See more Without knowing any translation theory you could still be a good translator but the knowledge of translation theory can make you a better translator, and the more theory you know, the better you can be practice-wise.
The reason is simple: Theories can guide you in practice; Theories can give you a lot of hints; Theories enrich your mind; Theories widen your horizon. You can be enlightened and become more insightful with some knowledge of theory in your mind.
I'm lost why so many people dislike theories or believe they are useless. ▲ Collapse
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Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 11:08
Member
Catalan to English
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| Still not convinced. | Aug 28, 2015 |
" ...which is the most important idea (unknown to some autodidacts): you translate ideas, not words, so idioms cannot be translated word-by-word, and if there is an abbreviation you don't understand, you cannot simply keep it unchanged in the target text."
I'd say that people who don't apply the above in their day-to-day translation practices are not lacking in theory but in common sense.
| | | | | I am just starting my MA ... | Aug 28, 2015 |
and have read a little translation theory, but as a social scientist I believe that theory guides your practice, however, not always consciously.
On the other hand, what Vero describes I consider rather practical common sense and I did that before having read any theory.
[Edited at 2015-08-28 07:02 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:08
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Some parts may be useful, other parts are too abstract for practice. | Aug 28, 2015 |
Well a linguist studies language anatomy just like an MD studies body anatomy, no difference. The only difference is that that MD gets much more respect and money for that kind of studies. And that nobody is likely to state it is useless for them to study body anatomy.
Well, this is no common sense, this is something I need to be instructed to do:
Red wine > Black wine (Serbian)
Brown bread > Black bread (Serbian)
Blond hair > Blue hair (Serbian)
... See more Well a linguist studies language anatomy just like an MD studies body anatomy, no difference. The only difference is that that MD gets much more respect and money for that kind of studies. And that nobody is likely to state it is useless for them to study body anatomy.
Well, this is no common sense, this is something I need to be instructed to do:
Red wine > Black wine (Serbian)
Brown bread > Black bread (Serbian)
Blond hair > Blue hair (Serbian)
These examples are taught in theory, just as an illustration. Yes, I can go around in real world and figure out by myself that English refers differently to colors in these specific examples, but in theory I will pick it up in five seconds.
Re. some examples in this thread, doesn't English have a range of hues for the blue color too, eg. baby blue, sky blue, navy blue, etc? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Generally useful. | Aug 28, 2015 |
I did MA in translation. Was it critical to me? No, not even close to that. Useful? Well, yes. For example, you learn why things that you would do anyway need to be done. Many “transliterators” would always translate “any” with “cualquier” in Spanish, such as in this completely made up example:
“Any person is entitled to receive any response at any time” (Cualquiera tiene derecho a cualquier respuesta en cuelquier momento).
However, more “proper” w... See more I did MA in translation. Was it critical to me? No, not even close to that. Useful? Well, yes. For example, you learn why things that you would do anyway need to be done. Many “transliterators” would always translate “any” with “cualquier” in Spanish, such as in this completely made up example:
“Any person is entitled to receive any response at any time” (Cualquiera tiene derecho a cualquier respuesta en cuelquier momento).
However, more “proper” way of doing it would be:
“Toda persona siempre tendrá derecho a una respuesta”.
We learn that the tense used in the source language not necessarily needs to be transposed to the target language (that perhaps in Spanish future simple conveys more sense of obligation than it does in English).
In other words, I like the "practical" part of the "theory", if that’s not viewed as a contradiction.
If you start investigating the history of cooking, it’s one thing, but if you go through some food recipes to prepare a better Paella, that could be completely different thing. I’m more into Paella-cooking than into investigating about it.
Books I found more than useful (in my subject matter and language combination):
- El inglés jurídico norteamericano (Enrique Alcaraz Varó, Miguel Ángel Campos, Cynthia Miguélez)
- El inglés jurídico (Enrique Alcaraz Varó)
- El español jurídico (Enrique Alcaraz Varó, Brian Hughes)
These are books that comprise 10% of theory and 90% of practical examples that are very well explained.
I also consider my law studies as part of that "theory". I do not practice law, but I use my knowledge to "grasp concepts" and thereby tranbslate better.
[Edited at 2015-08-28 08:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| It depends a lot what you mean by theory | Aug 28, 2015 |
jyuan_us wrote:
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I'm lost why so many people dislike theories or believe they are useless.
Quite understandable, when in so many other threads we rant about amateurs who think any bilingual can translate!
It does depend on which theories you are referring to.
A whole lot of waffle about semiotics and syntax and deixis - is quite literally Greek to me!
To me, it is more grammar and syntax than advanced translation theory. I regard it simply as practical guidelines.
However, a good theory that is usable in practice IS just that, I suppose - a systematic set of useful guidelines.
I still feel that monolingual grammars and style guides, which I use regularly, do not count as translation theory, and a little theory goes a VERY long way!
While I don't have time for the more abstract linguisitic theories, I probably apply far more theory than I am aware of all the same!
______________________________
With reference to colours:
I have a useful colour chart in one of my dictionaries, which is a circle divided into shaded segments of colour.
There are numbers scattered about it, and an index with the names in Danish for the shades at each point.
I find, for instance, that shades of blå (blaa) = blue in Danish definitely cross over into what most people call mauve/ purple/ lilac in English. Turquoise is also 'blue' in Danish, but the transition to green is probably hazier in both languages.
However, I am not sure I regard this sort of thing as theory, beyond the vague idea that there are so many things like that a translator needs to be aware of and find answers to.
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Re. some examples in this thread, doesn't English have a range of hues for the blue color too, eg. baby blue, sky blue, navy blue, etc?
The point about Russian (for example) is not that it has a range of options for 'blue', but that it doesn't have a single equivalent for the English 'blue'. There's 'goluboy' ('light blue') and 'siniy' ('dark blue'), but no word for 'blue' that encompasses both. (Incidentally, both are colours of the rainbow in Russian.)
[Edited at 2015-08-28 08:42 GMT]
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Alistair Gainey wrote: Re. some examples in this thread, doesn't English have a range of hues for the blue color too, eg. baby blue, sky blue, navy blue, etc?
The point about Russian (for example) is not that it has a range of options for 'blue', but that it doesn't have a single equivalent for the English 'blue'. There's 'goluboy' ('light blue') and 'siniy' ('dark blue'), but no word for 'blue' that encompasses both. (Incidentally, both are colours of the rainbow in Russian.) [Edited at 2015-08-28 08:42 GMT]
And why on earth it's "sinevá nebes" and "goluboe nebo"? I've never heard "sinee nebo", but that's maybe just me.
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I got interested in the two Russian blues through Kandinsky: While English and presumably any other language can describe any of these shades, there seems to be a genuine perceptual difference. My understanding is that in Russian, light blue and dark blue are related but fundamentally different colors (analogous, for example, to purple and blue or orange and red in English). So, yes, English has words to describe them, but there is also a significant conceptual difference involved. (And if the s... See more I got interested in the two Russian blues through Kandinsky: While English and presumably any other language can describe any of these shades, there seems to be a genuine perceptual difference. My understanding is that in Russian, light blue and dark blue are related but fundamentally different colors (analogous, for example, to purple and blue or orange and red in English). So, yes, English has words to describe them, but there is also a significant conceptual difference involved. (And if the source text says "push the blue button", you or someone down the line better have a picture to check).
The English pink is divided up into two colors in German: "pink" (= hot pink or magenta) and "rosa" (= pastel pink). I've also noticed that both of my children always had a lot of difficulty distinguishing between brown and black when they were little. And thinking of a color wheel, there are some colors that seem to cover a pretty restricted range (yellow or orange) and others that could easily divided up (thinking of the bluest green this side of turquoise compared to the yellowest green this side of yellow-green). And, of course, the associations with colors are often entirely different. ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:08
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Alistair Gainey wrote: Re. some examples in this thread, doesn't English have a range of hues for the blue color too, eg. baby blue, sky blue, navy blue, etc?
The point about Russian (for example) is not that it has a range of options for 'blue', but that it doesn't have a single equivalent for the English 'blue'. There's 'goluboy' ('light blue') and 'siniy' ('dark blue'), but no word for 'blue' that encompasses both. (Incidentally, both are colours of the rainbow in Russian.) [Edited at 2015-08-28 08:42 GMT]
So the word "blue" doesn't exist as such in Russian? Interesting. Then just translate goluboy as baby blue? In Serbian "golub" is a pigeon, I'm thinking now whether there's anything blue on any type of pigeon: D
People keep asking me why we refer to blonds as blue heads, well that's specific etymology issue I don't know about but I'm sure it's researchable, study theory and you will find out! : D
In archaic Serbian, if we say "golubija boja" it's more grey with a hint of plum blue, but rather greyish. It's like bruise blue mixed with grey, rather gloomy color.
[Edited at 2015-08-28 09:58 GMT]
| | | | DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 10:08
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Australian slang | Aug 28, 2015 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
People keep asking me why we refer to blonds as blue heads, well that's specific etymology issue I don't know about but I'm sure it's researchable, study theory and you will find out! : D
[Edited at 2015-08-28 09:54 GMT]
I have no idea where it came from, but "bluey" is 'Strine for a red-head.
There's apparently a colour "Pigeon Blue" RAL 5014.
And genuinely blue pigeons (but not European ones) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_pigeon
[Edited at 2015-08-28 10:02 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:08
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| This is no slang. | Aug 28, 2015 |
DLyons wrote: Lingua 5B wrote:
People keep asking me why we refer to blonds as blue heads, well that's specific etymology issue I don't know about but I'm sure it's researchable, study theory and you will find out! : D
[Edited at 2015-08-28 09:54 GMT] I have no idea where it came from, but "bluey" is 'Strine for a red-head.
"Blue head/ blue-haired" is a standard term for a blond in Serbian (orig. plavuša, plava kosa)
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