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Ethical Question
Thread poster: Nepali_English
Nepali_English
Nepali_English
Nepal
Local time: 19:51
English to Nepali
TOPIC STARTER
Thank your Jul 10, 2016

Hello all,

Thank you for your insights and advices. Really helpful.


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
let us transpose this situation to interpreting Jul 10, 2016

The interpreter is in a courtroom interpreting for a witness in a ”benign” theft case. All of the sudden, the witness starts cursing and using foul language. Is the interpreter supposed to leave because he never curses?

The interpreter for a language with a reduced diffusion is asked to interpret in an important case related to religious matters. That particular religion is against the interpreter's own religion. Should he leave?

The interpreter is in the emergency
... See more
The interpreter is in a courtroom interpreting for a witness in a ”benign” theft case. All of the sudden, the witness starts cursing and using foul language. Is the interpreter supposed to leave because he never curses?

The interpreter for a language with a reduced diffusion is asked to interpret in an important case related to religious matters. That particular religion is against the interpreter's own religion. Should he leave?

The interpreter is in the emergency room with a patient who lost a limb in an accident and the doctor needs to ask a few question. The interpreter does not like to see open wounds. Should he leave?


If we pretend to be professional, we must set aside our personal feelings or beliefs and perform our job.

That is my take.

Lee
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Maija Cirule
Maija Cirule  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 16:06
German to English
+ ...
My take Jul 10, 2016

liviu roth wrote:

The interpreter is in a courtroom interpreting for a witness in a ”benign” theft case. All of the sudden, the witness starts cursing and using foul language. Is the interpreter supposed to leave because he never curses?

The interpreter for a language with a reduced diffusion is asked to interpret in an important case related to religious matters. That particular religion is against the interpreter's own religion. Should he leave?

The interpreter is in the emergency room with a patient who lost a limb in an accident and the doctor needs to ask a few question. The interpreter does not like to see open wounds. Should he leave?


If we pretend to be professional, we must set aside our personal feelings or beliefs and perform our job.

That is my take.

Lee



Suppose that a mafia boss has kidnapped some wealthy foreigners and wants to persuade them to assign their money and property to the mafia boss. He and his associates do not know the foreign language and want to hire an interpreter, who shall assist in the process of persuasion. You as a "professional" set aside your feelings and perform your job ...

[Edited at 2016-07-10 18:05 GMT]


 
Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
@Lee Jul 10, 2016

Lee, this is a classic example of how purpose does matter.
When I'm in court, my translation/interpreting is in the service of administering justice. There's a huge difference between this and helping promote something I disagree with.


 
Rita Translator
Rita Translator  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:06
German to English
If we're using analogies Jul 10, 2016

Then they should be analogous. These are not.

liviu roth wrote:

(1) The interpreter is in a courtroom interpreting for a witness in a ”benign” theft case. All of the sudden, the witness starts cursing and using foul language. Is the interpreter supposed to leave because he never curses?

(2) The interpreter for a language with a reduced diffusion is asked to interpret in an important case related to religious matters. That particular religion is against the interpreter's own religion. Should he leave?

(3) The interpreter is in the emergency room with a patient who lost a limb in an accident and the doctor needs to ask a few question. The interpreter does not like to see open wounds. Should he leave?


If we pretend to be professional, we must set aside our personal feelings or beliefs and perform our job.

That is my take.

Lee

(I added the numbers for easier reference)

Case 3 first: This is not an ethical issue, it's a practical one. Can the interpreter interpret without vomiting or passing out? If not, then it's not an ethical question as to whether someone else should be called in, it's a practical and hygenic one. If there's a risk the interpreter could omit on sterile equipment or the patient, a new one should be called in.

Cases 1+2: Both of these are in a court / legal setting. I cannot think of something I wouldn't translate for a court case. I would translate neo-Nazi propaganda, instructions for effective human trafficking, you name it. We're not talking about a court setting here (or at least I'm not) where it's trying to be determined whether someone has committed an illegal act and evidence is needed. We're talking about when we are contacted by the person to essentially aid them in that act.

Here are some analogies:

1) You are contacted by a man who needs your interpreting services for a business meeting. You go and find out he runs a pedophile ring and is meeting with someone else who heads another pedophile ring to discuss how to move children across the border without the attention of the authorities. You're going to set aside your personal feelings and do your job?

2) An organization contacts you about interpreting for a conference on religion. You agree, but when you get there you find out they are dehumanizing and actively promoting injuring and/or killing members of another religion. Are you going to continue to interpret?

What I'm trying to say is that I cannot believe you translate like a robot and don't have any lines you refuse to cross. You (or anyone saying to be professional you have to forget your ethics) would translate ANYTHING for ANYONE?


Since everyone seems to want to look to other branches, ok, let's do it. Let's look at businesses that bankrupt their employees' pension funds to maximize the company's profits and CEO's paycheck. The CEO's main interest is the business, right? He's a machine, right? So he shouldn't bother with things like ethics, he should only seek to maximize profits.

Same with a company that drills for *insert natural resource here* and thereby destroys the surrounding environment and livelihood and health of the nearby population. It's the company's job to get this natural resource and maximize its profits, so thinking about pesky ethical questions like the environment or how it will affect the local population is unnecessary and really quite unprofessional.

That's what you're saying?

I think ethics not only can but must have a place in professional behavior.


But to be clear: It's obviously best if you turn down a job BEFORE you start to do it, not leave your client hanging in the middle of the job. Then I would feel that my professional ethics would obligate me to find someone else to finish it. I have turned down a project once for ethical reasons - I was sent the material, read through it and knew that it was not something that I wanted to have a part in making available to a larger public, and declined. Done.

Also, for any of you translators who translate into or out of German and are BDÜ members, read through the code of ethics - this is in there. I cited the passage earlier. It is part of professional ethics that you are *obligated* to turn down illegal or harmful/unethical (unlauter) jobs.


 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
"I cannot think of something I wouldn't translate for a court case" Jul 10, 2016

It always makes me smile when people are naively talking about something intangible as 'absolute freedom', 'absolute good vs. absolute bad' and so on, forgetting even to define the terms, let alone the purpose.

Ethics = Customs + Beliefs
Different customs and different beliefs make different ethics--as time proves it well/badly.

If one can translate anything for a court case ONLY, then let him or her proudly pretend it's the case, ok?)<
... See more
It always makes me smile when people are naively talking about something intangible as 'absolute freedom', 'absolute good vs. absolute bad' and so on, forgetting even to define the terms, let alone the purpose.

Ethics = Customs + Beliefs
Different customs and different beliefs make different ethics--as time proves it well/badly.

If one can translate anything for a court case ONLY, then let him or her proudly pretend it's the case, ok?)
Just an absolution...

[Edited at 2016-07-10 17:12 GMT]
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Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
different view Jul 10, 2016

@ Maija

Watching too many bad movies. If a criminal organization is able to conduct a kidnapping of a wealthy family, I am sure that they have their own "translator/interpreter" and would not randomly choose one from the official list of translators.



@Kelly

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you ga
... See more
@ Maija

Watching too many bad movies. If a criminal organization is able to conduct a kidnapping of a wealthy family, I am sure that they have their own "translator/interpreter" and would not randomly choose one from the official list of translators.



@Kelly

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you gathered report them to the law enforcement authorities. Simple like that!

[Edited at 2016-07-10 22:19 GMT]


I remember, long time ago, when Romania still was communist, somebody approached me to translate some instructions how to escape from the communist country. It was illegal to do it, and for those who were members of the communist party (I was not) it was also a moral, ideological matter. I did it, and I never regretted for doing it.

[Edited at 2016-07-10 22:23 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-07-11 12:14 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-07-11 12:14 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-07-11 12:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-07-11 12:18 GMT]
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Daryo
Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:06
Serbian to English
+ ...
Either send it back Jul 11, 2016

as as far as I know translating/interpreting IS NOT a "public service" in a sense that you have a legal obligation to accept any and every client willing to pay

or

translate it exactly as it is without distorting the ST to suit your own ideas of what is "right" - I have seen few "translations" that are so distorted by translator's personal opinions that they are no longer "translations" in any meaning of the term - that I find even less "ethical" than acce
... See more
as as far as I know translating/interpreting IS NOT a "public service" in a sense that you have a legal obligation to accept any and every client willing to pay

or

translate it exactly as it is without distorting the ST to suit your own ideas of what is "right" - I have seen few "translations" that are so distorted by translator's personal opinions that they are no longer "translations" in any meaning of the term - that I find even less "ethical" than accepting a text you object to.


liviu roth wrote:

@ Maija

Watching too many bad movies. If a criminal organization is able to conduct a kidnapping of a wealthy family, I am sure that they have their own "translator/interpreter" and would not randomly choose one from the official list of translators.

@Kelly

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you gathered report them to the law enforcement authorities. Simple like that!

[Edited at 2016-07-10 22:19 GMT]


I remember, long time ago, when Romania still was communist, somebody approached me to translate some instructions how to escape from the communist country. It was illegal to do it, and for those who were members of the communist party (I was not) it was also a moral, ideological matter. I did it, and I never regretted for doing it.



Sensible talk - only a total moron would hire an unknown (to them) translator/interpreter when engaging in anything illegal so all these "hypothetical situations" used to illustrate "ethics" are just that - nonsense assumptions.
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Annamaria Amik
Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
Doing your job - as a translator or as an accessory? Jul 26, 2016

liviu roth wrote:

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you gathered report them to the law enforcement authorities. Simple like that!


But isn't in this case "doing your job" being accessory to a crime? Let's say the authorities get to you before you can report the bad guys. How can you prove you only "did your job" with society's interest in mind? I'm not sure civilians are allowed to act as self-appointed undercover agents for the justice system...


 
Sarah Lewis-Morgan
Sarah Lewis-Morgan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:06
Member (2014)
German to English
+ ...
An interesting conundrum. Jul 26, 2016

Annamaria Amik wrote:

liviu roth wrote:

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you gathered report them to the law enforcement authorities. Simple like that!


But isn't in this case "doing your job" being accessory to a crime? Let's say the authorities get to you before you can report the bad guys. How can you prove you only "did your job" with society's interest in mind? I'm not sure civilians are allowed to act as self-appointed undercover agents for the justice system...


If I accept a job I also accept that I have a duty of confidentiality towards my client. If I translated the text I was assigned to translate then reported my client to the authorities I would be breaking that duty of confidentiality. Personally I would feel deeply uncomfortable about translating something that made me an accessory to a crime in the first place, so I would not take the job. Which might leave me to free to report the crime/potential crime to the police without either myself becoming an accessory or breaking confidentiality.

I have translated texts that made me feel uncomfortable, but not because they were illegal; purely because they might not have agreed with my world view. However, I have also rejected jobs because I felt the subject matter unacceptable. There are certain subjects I would not touch although I am sure other translators would take them on - as a rabid anti-smoker, for example, I would not translate cigarette advertising despite the fact that I am sure there are plenty who would. Personal ethical values should surely allow one to choose what work one takes or rejects in cases where there is any doubt.


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
very easy to prove Jul 27, 2016

Annamaria Amik wrote:

liviu roth wrote:

Considering the two scenarios you posted, definitely I would accept the assignments. This would be the best way to help society. Do your job, and then .... with all the information you gathered report them to the law enforcement authorities. Simple like that!


But isn't in this case "doing your job" being accessory to a crime? Let's say the authorities get to you before you can report the bad guys. How can you prove you only "did your job" with society's interest in mind? I'm not sure civilians are allowed to act as self-appointed undercover agents for the justice system...



If the law enforcement gets to you before you report it, you can prove that you did not have any knowledge beforehand (exchange of e-mails between the client & translator in order to accept the job) and that you were in the position where there was no way to turn around.

But, anyway, as Daryo mentioned in his post, only a total morn would hire somebody from a public list in order to commit a crime.

The only time I refused a translation or interpreting job was when I considered that I am not professionally fit to take the job. (ie. asked to interpret for Miss Universe in Rio, asked to interpret at a medical conference in Bangkok). I translate and interpret ONLY in the legal field.


 
Angela Malik
Angela Malik  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:06
German to English
+ ...
A position of "no turning back" Jul 27, 2016

liviu roth wrote:

If the law enforcement gets to you before you report it, you can prove that you did not have any knowledge beforehand (exchange of e-mails between the client & translator in order to accept the job) and that you were in the position where there was no way to turn around.



I'm not sure the authorities would see it as you being in a position "where there was no way to turn around". If you are not under duress (e.g. gun to your head, family members being threatened, some other form of coercion) then I think most authorities (at least in the West) would not consider you to be in a position where you could not stop what you were doing or at least report it to them during the process and not after the damage has been done and the client slips away without a trace again.

They COULD interpret it as OK, you didn't know about the situation when you first joined it, but once you were aware, you decided to stay and at that point became an accessory to the crime, or even an outright perpetrator of the crime.

In the same sense that a lawyer or psychiatrist has the obligation to break client confidentiality by warning third parties if a client tells them of their intent to commit a crime (just intent! Not even actual completion of the criminal act), one could argue that a translator has a similar professional obligation to report or warn of the crime as soon as it becomes clear that that is what is occurring. At the very least, a translator should contact a lawyer or the authorities and seek advice as to whether they should continue in the face of what is occurring or stop lest they themselves become accessories to the crime.


 
Kay Denney
Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:06
French to English
what's in a title? Jul 27, 2016

liviu roth wrote:

The interpreter is in a courtroom interpreting for a witness in a ”benign” theft case. All of the sudden, the witness starts cursing and using foul language. Is the interpreter supposed to leave because he never curses?


I have no problem with swearing personally. Even if I did, I would translate it as faithfully as possible because a witness speaking in the language of the court would get fined for contempt of court for swearing, and I don't see why a witness speaking another language should get away with it. I'd preface it with a "please don't shoot the interpreter".

liviu roth wrote:

The interpreter for a language with a reduced diffusion is asked to interpret in an important case related to religious matters. That particular religion is against the interpreter's own religion. Should he leave?



I would say it depends on all sorts of things. However, I strongly believe that all individuals are entitled to a fair trial (just like all individuals are entitled to decent healthcare) so I'd do it. I'd probably want to make sure nobody thought I was a religious nutcase. I can't say that I'd try to do a brilliant job, more likely content myself with something that's just about fit for purpose.

liviu roth wrote:

The interpreter is in the emergency room with a patient who lost a limb in an accident and the doctor needs to ask a few question. The interpreter does not like to see open wounds. Should he leave?


I don't see the ethical problem here. Although if there were a chance of me fainting, it would be better to find someone less sensitive.

There are many ethical issues for which I would refuse the work. As a vegetarian, I translate non-veg menus but not recipes. I turned down a translation for a website selling frozen meat, I regularly turn down stuff from a sports retailer that sells hunting and fishing equipment (they also send me tons of textiles stuff which I love so I haven't told them to delete me from their database). I cannot research the different types of hooks for fishing, I wouldn't be able to keep my lunch down. For others, this is not a problem and I fully accept that it takes all sorts to make a world.

OP, once when working for an agency I had to translate a very cynical memo about a firm dabbling in GM food. The thrust was to rebrand GM to make it sound more palatable. It gave me the grandmother of all migraines and I told the boss never again. He threw one helluva wobbly over that, since his only work ethic was a matter of squeezing as much money out of clients as possible, and as much work out of employees as possible (he now works as an estate agent, which is good news for translators at least). I stuck to my guns, because I want to keep healthy and sleep at night.

Translators who accept all work with complete disregard to their own ethics might as well be robots.


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:06
Romanian to English
+ ...
Thank you Angela Jul 27, 2016

Angela Rimmer wrote:

liviu roth wrote:

If the law enforcement gets to you before you report it, you can prove that you did not have any knowledge beforehand (exchange of e-mails between the client & translator in order to accept the job) and that you were in the position where there was no way to turn around.



I'm not sure the authorities would see it as you being in a position "where there was no way to turn around". If you are not under duress (e.g. gun to your head, family members being threatened, some other form of coercion) then I think most authorities (at least in the West) would not consider you to be in a position where you could not stop what you were doing or at least report it to them during the process and not after the damage has been done and the client slips away without a trace again.

They COULD interpret it as OK, you didn't know about the situation when you first joined it, but once you were aware, you decided to stay and at that point became an accessory to the crime, or even an outright perpetrator of the crime.

In the same sense that a lawyer or psychiatrist has the obligation to break client confidentiality by warning third parties if a client tells them of their intent to commit a crime (just intent! Not even actual completion of the criminal act), one could argue that a translator has a similar professional obligation to report or warn of the crime as soon as it becomes clear that that is what is occurring. At the very least, a translator should contact a lawyer or the authorities and seek advice as to whether they should continue in the face of what is occurring or stop lest they themselves become accessories to the crime.


Thank you for the advice,

It seems that working for 12 years in law enforcement after I graduated from law school did not teach me too much how to handle these cases.

A good advice is always welcomed!
Just joking!

Lee


 
Angela Malik
Angela Malik  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:06
German to English
+ ...
Sarcasm, so mature Jul 28, 2016

liviu roth wrote:

Thank you for the advice,

It seems that working for 12 years in law enforcement after I graduated from law school did not teach me too much how to handle these cases.

A good advice is always welcomed!
Just joking!

Lee


My only response to this is that if your only "ethical" position is to accept any and all work you are professionally capable of doing with no regard to the bigger picture and whether or not your work and its effect are moral or ethical, then you and I are completely different animals and we will have to disagree.

If you spent all that time in law enforcement and law school, it is surprising to say the least that you don't have a more ethical backbone. My partner is a barrister here in the UK, and a huge portion of his law degree was dedicated to ethics and maintaining one's ethical integrity even and especially in situations that are not clear-cut. It would seem your own legal education skimmed over those obligations -- or you choose to ignore them. Sad.

In any case it highly unlikely that a translator would find themselves working on a text that would reveal an outright crime, so this is all hypothetical anyway. The more likely scenario is that a translator finds themselves working on a text that goes against their own personal ethics but is not necessarily illegal -- though it may be a grey area where one isn't sure if it qualifies as hate speech or something, for example, which is illegal in many countries. In that case, I stand by my own personal conviction that one has to be responsible for what one does -- your personal integrity is worth more than money, and anyway there is enough other work out there to thrive in business without accepting questionable texts. And if there is any question about the legality of the text, yes, I do think a translator should protect themselves by seeking advice as to whether or not they should continue working on it.


 
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