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Translation degree vs. other degree vs. no degree
Thread poster: Catherine Bolton
Maria Karra
Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:58
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
since always Aug 1, 2006

Konstantin Kisin wrote:
since when do you...
...learn to fly a fighter jet at university?


Hi Konstantin,

Do you mean to say that you fly a fighter jet based on ...experience? Where do you start accumulating hours that will permit you later on to fly a fighter jet, if not at a flight academy/university? Who teaches you how to fly? It's one thing to say that a translation degree is not always necessary (provided one has the will and passion to teach oneself how to translate, I insist on that), but aren't we underestimating education a little too much here?
Education doesn't always give you all the tools (I don't think anyone has claimed that), but it gives you quite a few, and most importantly, it shows you where to look for the rest.
Maria


 
Konstantin Kisin
Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:58
Russian to English
+ ...
... Aug 1, 2006

Maria Karra wrote:

Konstantin Kisin wrote:
since when do you...
...learn to fly a fighter jet at university?


Hi Konstantin,

Do you mean to say that you fly a fighter jet based on ...experience? Where do you start accumulating hours that will permit you later on to fly a fighter jet, if not at a flight academy/university? Who teaches you how to fly? It's one thing to say that a translation degree is not always necessary (provided one has the will and passion to teach oneself how to translate, I insist on that), but aren't we underestimating education a little too much here?
Education doesn't always give you all the tools (I don't think anyone has claimed that), but it gives you quite a few, and most importantly, it shows you where to look for the rest.
Maria


I am not suggesting that a degree is totally useless but I wholly oppose the argument that it is somehow a defining factor in determining whether somebody is a professional translator or not. I prefer to look at results.

Let's not confuse university where you are taught primarily theory and a military academy, the purpose of which is to produce a "final product". I gave an example of the practical training received by future linguists at highly reputable UK universities...or lack thereof. On top of this, the increasingly exam-based system in education generally means that learning is squeezed out by cramming with the only result being a piece of paper.

You learn to fly a fighter jet by means of *practical* training AND theory but however much you learn about the theory of air combat you won't be able to fly a jet in a combat situation effectively until you have experience in simulators, as a co-pilot and flying on your own under supervision, with lessons learned exercises etc. This is the point Morpheus makes to Neo in the Matrix: there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.

To use a sporting analogy: I know perfectly well how to kick a football or throw a pass in basketball. I know the theory and understand the physics involved but the difference between "knowing" and "doing" is huge. Kicking footballs and passing basketballs is something that comes naturally to some people who refine their skills through years of rigorous training and competitive play. Those who have no such natural talent can attend training and academies as much as they like, they might even graduate but they'll never make it into a professional team. Why then, do we have people here waving their diplomas and screaming "YOU stole my place in that team but YOU didn't graduate from my Academy of Excellence, how dare you? Isn't this a place for professional footballers?"

Let's judge each other on results, client feedback, kudoz answers (and questions) etc and not on how many boxes have been ticked in our Proz.com completness monitor Or, alternatively, let's not judge each other at all?

[Edited at 2006-08-01 14:05]


 
Maria Karra
Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:58
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
professionalism Aug 1, 2006

Konstantin Kisin wrote:
I am not suggesting that a degree is totally useless but I wholly oppose the argument that it is somehow a defining factor in determining whether somebody is a professional translator or not.


We don't disagree on this; I believe that a degree is an important factor but not the only factor. It doesn't make you a professional. Professionalism depends on many things, one of which -in my humble opinion- is work ethic. A degree can't give you that. It won't teach you to be courteous to clients, to respect deadlines, to be passionate about your work, to go out of your way to find the perfect term that keeps eluding you when you're stressed out. It is the final product that counts, you're right about that. My point is that the degree will help you produce a better final product (again, there are plenty of exceptions).

This is the point Morpheus makes to Neo in the Matrix: there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path.


Oh come on, this isn't fair; it's been a very long time since I've watched the Matrix, and the only Morpheus I remember is the god of dreams. But I do see your point. I'll use the same analogy; the education shows you the path, it prepares you for it, it tells you how difficult the path is, tells you what equipment you'll need on the way, and thus makes it easier for you to walk the path. But it's up to you to walk it and use the knowledge you acquired. Without education or any other kind of training (self-training included), you simply start walking the path without much preparation, and that's simply harder on you; you may reach the end of the path, but it may take you longer, perhaps you will have used the wrong equipment, and your final physical state (the final product) may or may not be as good as it would have been, had you gone through some training first.

Translation education also proves another thing: that you became a translator because you wanted to, that you love this work and you were passionate enough to invest time and money into learning how to do it (and I'm talking about my generation now; I'm fully aware that a few decades ago many of our colleagues didn't have the luxury to go to translation school), as opposed to becoming a translator because you happened to speak a second language and couldn't find another job. The latter case isn't the norm, but it does happen, I'm afraid. Not having a degree doesn't mean you didn't want to become a translator in the first place (before anybody twists my words ), but having one usually shows that it was a serious informed choice and that this is the path you wanted to take.


Konstantin wrote:
Why then, do we have people here waving their diplomas and screaming "YOU stole my place in that team but YOU didn't graduate from my Academy of Excellence, how dare you? Isn't this a place for professional footballers?"


I don't think anybody has done that. I find this comment unfair.

Maria


[Edited at 2006-08-01 14:30]


 
Konstantin Kisin
Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:58
Russian to English
+ ...
without wishing to seem argumentative Aug 1, 2006

Maria Karra wrote:

Konstantin wrote:
Why then, do we have people here waving their diplomas and screaming "YOU stole my place in that team but YOU didn't graduate from my Academy of Excellence, how dare you? Isn't this a place for professional footballers?"


I don't think anybody has done that. I find this comment unfair.

Maria



BAmary wrote:
Most of Proz members are NOT translators, so it seems natural that people who don't have a clue about this profession answer whatever comes to their minds.



I am sorry to see that many of us studied 4 or more years only to be stolen (emphasis added) work by people who just decided to become "translators" because they happened to speak two languages and probably wanted to work from home, or didn't have a job, or whatever.

Much of the rubbish comes from these people, who have no idea about translation techniques, research, or even common sense.



I’m NOT saying all people translating without qualifications answer rubbish. I’m just saying they should go to school before they call themselves translators.


 
Maria Karra
Maria Karra  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:58
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
... Aug 1, 2006

I think that BAmary said that she no longer wished to participate in this discussion, so it may not be a good idea to quote her posts. (Monika, please advise. I am more than willing to delete my post.)

I will reply to you briefly though: BAmary is putting emphasis on education and seems to be saddened by the fact that some people become translators just because they couldn't find another job and simply happened to speak a second language. Eventually they may become experts, but in t
... See more
I think that BAmary said that she no longer wished to participate in this discussion, so it may not be a good idea to quote her posts. (Monika, please advise. I am more than willing to delete my post.)

I will reply to you briefly though: BAmary is putting emphasis on education and seems to be saddened by the fact that some people become translators just because they couldn't find another job and simply happened to speak a second language. Eventually they may become experts, but in the beginning they sometimes answer "whatever comes to their minds" (which we see in KudoZ). That's what I understood from BAmary's post. As for "going to school before calling yourself a translator", this is a point on which I don't agree 100%, simply because I would include "self-training", as I already wrote.
Now, between this and "waving one's diploma and screaming" and claiming to have graduated from an "Academy of Excellence", there is a very big difference; not only a difference in meaning, but also in the way of expressing that meaning. To call a spade a spade, we don't need to be sarcastic to express our disagreement, Konstantin.
Maria
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Konstantin Kisin
Konstantin Kisin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:58
Russian to English
+ ...
forgive my artistic exaggeration :) Aug 1, 2006

Maria Karra wrote:
To call a spade a spade, we don't need to be sarcastic to express our disagreement, Konstantin.
Maria


I know but I just can't help myself My intrinsic craving for ridiculing something occasionally gets the better of me

I do think, however, that exaggeration helps to see the flaws in arguments and proposals but I shall end my participation here so as not to divert attention from the main topic.


 
Mohammed Abu-Risha
Mohammed Abu-Risha
Local time: 19:58
Arabic to English
+ ...
Translation degree Aug 22, 2006

With specific reference to Arabic - English translation, I would say it is important for the would-be transaltor to study the following (no matter whether it be academic or not)


1- English literature and thought (to gain the mentality of the English native speakers)

2- English phonetics "practical course" (to gain the right pronunciation)

3- English grammar (to understand and use English grammatically)

4- Communication skills

... See more
With specific reference to Arabic - English translation, I would say it is important for the would-be transaltor to study the following (no matter whether it be academic or not)


1- English literature and thought (to gain the mentality of the English native speakers)

2- English phonetics "practical course" (to gain the right pronunciation)

3- English grammar (to understand and use English grammatically)

4- Communication skills

5- Vocabulary and dictioanry skills

6- Reading in different fields is a must: politics, biology, mainstream medicine, economics, etc.

7- Simultaneous interpeting techniques

An important point:

* Arab Interpretrs who have never studied English literature, have almost failed to give a good translation (lousy interpreters/transaltors)

* Arab interpreters who studied just translation at the university failed to translate in any specialised field expect after working in the field for a long time. They feel especially stuck in translating religious, political, economic issues that they have no awareness of.

Mohammed
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Vladislav.
Vladislav.

Local time: 19:58
English to Russian
+ ...
College Degree Sep 22, 2014

Now, about 8 years have passed. What are the current suggestions on diploma vs. certification? Is it possible in current market to become a successful translator without any college education but with a certificate in translation?

 
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Translation degree vs. other degree vs. no degree







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