Translators - Translator Resources
ProZ.com – Globales Verzeichnis von Übersetzungsdiensten
 The translation workplace

Deutsch: Bittsteller

Englisch translation: petitioner, alms seeker







KudoZ
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators... More



Glossareintrag (aus Frage unten abgeleitet)
Deutsch Begriff oder Satz:Bittsteller
Englisch Übersetzung:petitioner, alms seeker
Eingetragen von:Craig Meulen
Optionen:
- Zu diesem Eintrag beitragen

2:56pm Jun 1, 2007Login or register (free) for more options.
Übersetzungen Deutsch > Englisch [PRO]
Art/Literary - Geschichte / monastery
Deutsch Begriff oder Satz: Bittsteller
I'm translating a guide for visitors to the ruins of an old monastery. The guided walk starts at the main gate ...

Hier fanden Gäste und Bittsteller Einlass oder Hilfe.


Craig Meulen
Deutschland
petitioner, alms seeker
Erklärung:
also 'those seeking alms' (easier to pronounce).

In the Middle Ages, monasteries dispensed alms (monetary) as well as food and clothing to petitioners, sometmes from the main gate, sometimes from the kitchen gate.
Also, those seeking alms/petitioning for alms would ask those entering the monastery for money. It was considered poor form to enter/leave the monastery as a guest without giving alms to the petitioners, who, because they were allowed to stay at the monastery gate (close to holy ground), were considered the deserving poor.

I'm a medievalist by training, specialized in monastic history.
Ausgewählte Antwort von:

Rebecca Garber
Vereinigte Staaten
Hinweis von Fragesteller an den Antwortenden
I went with alms seeker, since I think this provides the right image. "Petitioner" would probably be the more correct translation, since it has a wider meaning.
4 KudoZ-Punkte wurden für diese Antwort vergeben



ZUSAMMENFASSUNG ALLER ÜBERSETZUNGEN (ENGLISCH)
4 +2supplicant
HeinrichB
4 +2petitionersxxxFrancis Lee
4 +1petitioner, alms seekerRebecca Garber
3 +1almsman / -men / -peopleCilian O'Tuama
4beggar
James Murphy
3alm-seekers
SusieZ
4 -1layman; laity; lay brother/s
Christo Metschkaroff
2petitioner, solicitor, addresser, suitor, supplicant
Jonathan MacKerron


  


Antworten

11 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
beggar

Erklärung:
Below Bitsteller is translated as petitioner/suplicant

http://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Bittsteller

From that you could deduce beggar, one who supplicates?
I'm sure there'd be many a beggar knocking at the gates of the monastery looking for help.

James Murphy
Irland
Muttersprache: Englisch
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


12 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): -1
layman; laity; lay brother/s

Erklärung:
IMHO "Bittsteller" stands figurateve for all folks who visit a monastery - clergymen as well visitors (laymen, laity)

Christo Metschkaroff
Bulgarien
Spezialgebiet
Muttersprache: Bulgarisch

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Widerspruch Cilian O'Tuama: it says the Gäste request Einlass, and Bittsteller request Hilfe
10 Min.
  -> Gäste+Bittsteller=laity (collective name)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


13 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +1
petitioner, alms seeker

Erklärung:
also 'those seeking alms' (easier to pronounce).

In the Middle Ages, monasteries dispensed alms (monetary) as well as food and clothing to petitioners, sometmes from the main gate, sometimes from the kitchen gate.
Also, those seeking alms/petitioning for alms would ask those entering the monastery for money. It was considered poor form to enter/leave the monastery as a guest without giving alms to the petitioners, who, because they were allowed to stay at the monastery gate (close to holy ground), were considered the deserving poor.

I'm a medievalist by training, specialized in monastic history.

Rebecca Garber
Vereinigte Staaten
Spezialgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 16
Hinweis von Fragesteller an den Antwortenden
I went with alms seeker, since I think this provides the right image. "Petitioner" would probably be the more correct translation, since it has a wider meaning.

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung franglish: petitioner
1 Stunde
  -> Thanks, franglisch :)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


17 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
alm-seekers

Erklärung:
or " those seeking alms" another option

SusieZ
Vereinigte Staaten
Arbeitsgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


10 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +2
petitioners

Erklärung:
A polite word for beggars. ;-)
No reference - but this is in a personal glossary of mine. Perhaps you can see if it applies in your contect.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2007-06-01 15:11:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By the time he was 30, Pierre was a civil servant whose job was to act as a link between petitioners from Toulouse to the King of France and an enforcer of royal decrees
http://www.math.wichita.edu/history/men/fermat.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2007-06-01 15:25:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

He crawled past the petitioners at the Gates so as to avoid detection
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=49230

xxxFrancis Lee
Deutschland
Arbeitsgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 103
Hinweise an den Beantworter der Frage
Fragesteller: If there was a point-sharing facility I'd've given you two points as well!! Thanks.


Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung Rebecca Garber: didn't see your, Francis, when I posted mine.
5 Stunden

Zustimmung Textklick: Das Deutsche Wörterbuch suggests "Rogator". This in turn points to "petitioner" in Muret Sanders and Collins.
7 Stunden
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


29 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +1
almsman / -men / -people

Erklärung:
almsman: a recipient of alms

assuming a Bittsteller is the same as an Almosenempfänger

Cilian O'Tuama
Deutschland
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 8

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung conny
17 Min.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


1 Stunde   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
petitioner, solicitor, addresser, suitor, supplicant

Erklärung:
according to my 1891 Flüglers German-English dictionary. Grimm="rogator"
Duden = " jmd., der mündlich od. schriftlich eine Bitte um Hilfe o.Ä. vorbringt: Er wusste nicht recht, wohin mit den Händen er war hier B. (H.Weber, Einzug 390)."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-06-01 16:09:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1905 Muret-Sanders = "hanger-on"

Jonathan MacKerron
Deutschland
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 31

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Neutraler Kommentar Richard Benham: In some parts of the Anglophone world, a solicitor is a lawyer. In Molière, the verb "solliciter" means to bribe a judge. I am not sure of the connection there. "Addresser" is weird, others seem OK.
8 Stunden
  -> language changes over the centuries
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)


7 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +2
supplicant

Erklärung:
Don't know what else it could be..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-06-01 17:11:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would suggest 'supplicant' includes petitioners seeking favours and beggars seeking alms, and thus serves as a catch-all. A beggar or alms-seeker is hardly a petitioner and a petitioner is hardly a beggar. Petitioners also sought aid for 'legal' claims...

HeinrichB
Kanada
Spezialgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 12

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung Nadine Kahn: I like suppliant better
1 Stunde
  -> Hmm... a suppliant merely prays for favours, no? While a supplicant steps forth actively, requests something be done by those who have the power...

Zustimmung Ingeborg Gowans
1 Stunde
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)





Zur KudoZ-Liste zurückkehren