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The option for setting language proficiencies below C1 (Europass approach) isn't helpful here
Thread poster: Gerard de Noord
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:22
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Searchers make their own assumptions anyway Mar 1, 2018

Chris S wrote:
Why would ANY client want to know that I have a language I don't work in?

Where in my profile or CV say that I can translate from Spanish? Nowhere, because I couldn't. But I've lost count of the number of times I've had messages asking me to do just that since I moved to Spain in 2012. I imagine they must just search for the country of residence .


 
Thomas T. Frost
Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 05:22
Danish to English
+ ...
You can choose not to show your country of residence Mar 1, 2018

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Where in my profile or CV say that I can translate from Spanish? Nowhere, because I couldn't. But I've lost count of the number of times I've had messages asking me to do just that since I moved to Spain in 2012. I imagine they must just search for the country of residence .


I had a similar problem with German. It is very limited what I can translate from German, and the reasons I live in Germany are completely unrelated to the language. To my great annoyance, SDL automatically presumes that since I live in Germany, I surely want everything in German. It took a while to make them understand that I don't. Asking the user is an alien concept in that company. They surely know much better than I do which language I prefer to use.

There is a Proz profile setting not to show your country of residence, though.

People also tend to presume that everybody works ‘cubicle’ hours in their country of residence, even when they are freelancers, which is another reason not to show the country if one's working hours are different.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 06:22
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
My opinion Mar 1, 2018

Gerard de Noord wrote:
This made me reconsider entering my proficiency in my source languages on this website, where a new feature was introduced this week.


The new feature does not give the user any guidelines about which option to choose, except for the descriptive names. In reality, these names are not very accurate if they are used as guidelines for what these levels actually mean. I assume, though, that what I read on Wikipedia is an accurate description of the levels.

"Afrikaans" is my native language and my first language, and so naturally I might have selected "C2 - Mastery" for it, but after having read the descriptions of C1 and C2 on Wikipedia I realised that I had never actually been "C2" in any language. Similarly, if I hadn't consulted Wikipedia while selecting my level of competence in "English", I would probably have chosen "C1 - Advanced", since in my country of birth I'm considered by my peers to be "fully bilingual", but after having read the actual descriptions, I now evaluate my level of competence in the English language to be B1 (!!!). Of course, the descriptions on Wikipedia may be wrong, or they may be a poor replacement for actual proficiency tests. After all, according to the Dutch immigration authority, my proficiency in Dutch is also B1 (attested for by 4 official exams), and anyone will tell you my Dutch is way, way, waaaaay worse than my English.

Additionalliy there are no guidelines in the ProZ.com system about which level to choose when only one of your competencies (speaking, reading, writing, understanding) matches a certain level. If you can speak at level B1 but you can write at level B2, do you select "B1" or "B2"? I would think "B1", but you could easily convince me otherwise.

===================================================================

I would suggest two improvements to the language proficiency setting:

1. Split the proficiency into two types (reading and writing, for translators (and speaking and understanding, for interpreters)).

2. If a translator has proof of his level of competence, allow him to enter it directly (and submit proof), but otherwise, let the translator answer a short quiz (one question at a time) to determine his level of competence.

The quiz questions could be adapted directly from the descriptions on Wikipedia, randomised. In this example, reading and writing questions were not separated:

01 - Can you produce simple, connected text in [language] about topics that are familiar to you or that are of personal interest to you?
02 - Can you understand the main points of clear, standard written or spoken [language] about familiar matters that you regularly encounter in work, school, leisure, etc?
03 - Can you interact with other people in [language] in a simple way, if the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help?
04 - Can you understand a wide range of demanding, long sentences in [language], and can you recognize implied meaning in [language]?
05 - Can you introduce yourself and others in [language], and can you ask and answer questions in [language] about personal details such as where you live, people you know and things that you own?
06 - Can you describe aspects of your background, immediate environment and matters in areas of immediate need in simple terms in [language]?
07 - Can you produce clear, well-structured, detailed text in [language] about complex subjects, so that the text is well-organized and cohesive?
08 - Can you deal with most situations that are likely to arise while travelling in an area where [language] is spoken?
09 - Can you summarize information from different spoken and written [language] sources, and then present the facts and arguments in [language] coherently?
10 - Can you produce clear, detailed text in [language] about a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint about a topical issue, and tell others what are the advantages and disadvantages of various options?
11 - Can you understand the main ideas of complex text in [language] about both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in your own field of specialization?
12 - Can you express yourself spontaneously, very fluently and precisely in [language], and differentiate finer shades of meaning in [language] even in the most complex situations?
13 - Can you understand simple sentences and frequently used expressions in [language] related to very basic personal and family information, shopping, local geography, employment, etc?
14 - Can you describe experiences and events, dreams, hopes and ambitions in [language], and can you briefly give reasons and explanations in [language] for your opinions and plans?
15 - Can you communicate in [language] during simple and routine tasks that require a simple and direct exchange of information about familiar, routine matters?
16 - Can you understand and use well-known everyday expressions and very basic phrases in [language] to satisfy needs of a concrete type?
17 - Can you understand with ease virtually everything that you hear or read in [language]?
18 - Can you express ideas in [language] fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions?
19 - Can you interact in [language] with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party?
20 - Can you use [language] flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes?

The key in the above example is:
A1: 3, 5, 16
A2: 6, 13, 15
B1: 1, 2, 8, 14
B2: 10, 11, 19
C1: 4, 7, 18, 20
C2: 9, 12, 17

Your level of competence is the level up to which you have answered all questions "yes". In other words, if you have answered "yes" to all C1, B2 and B1 questions, but "no" to one of the "A2" questions, then your level of competence is A1.


[Edited at 2018-03-01 19:20 GMT]


 
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The option for setting language proficiencies below C1 (Europass approach) isn't helpful here






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