Oct 24, 2010 18:18
13 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term

langue de bois

Non-PRO French to English Other Government / Politics Rhetoric/spin
No context whatsoever available, but it refers to the way politicians voice neat, grand or plausible sounding concepts which, when you think about them for a minute, are actually devoid of any real meaning. "Spin" does part of the job, but not all.

Discussion

Mohamed Najbi Oct 15, 2019:
Langue de bois means dodging the real issues.
Mark Bossanyi (asker) Oct 25, 2010:
To Paula Rennie and AllegroTrans Because the client told me verbally what he thinks it means in French. Which is exactly what I wrote in the question. No more, no less.
Desdemone (X) Oct 25, 2010:
Sorry, but how can you say "no context whatsoever" and then tell us what it refers to?
My vote is with bafflegab (or bullsh*t)
Travelin Ann Oct 24, 2010:
Michel F. Morin Oct 24, 2010:
Spin doctor Un "spin doctor" est un "manipulateur de l'information" - ce qui n'est pas tout à fait le même sens que "langue de bois".
AllegroTrans Oct 24, 2010:
So when you say "spin" does part of the job.... ...what had you in mind?
Mark Bossanyi (asker) Oct 24, 2010:
Sorry, as I pointed out, there is no text. Just the question itself. These requests from clients sometimes occur and they are difficult, precisely because there is no context.
AllegroTrans Oct 24, 2010:
It all depends... on the register you require. Can you paste in the text please?

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
Selected

(political) gobbledegook

Or however you wish to spell it.

An example:
http://www.huyghe.fr/dyndoc_actu/44b4a838af4d3.pdf

For me it's not spin, which is "positive", which actually means something, however unrealistic or unattainable, but rather, as has been suggested, "pompous waffle" which is meaningless and offered - in response to a question one does not wish to answer or is incapable of answering - to put up a pretence of addressing/understanding the issue.

Political gobbledegook.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-10-24 22:09:55 GMT)
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As the Wikipedia article referred to below, gobbledegook (or what I would call "orginary gobbledegook") is a form of language using incomprehensible jargon and convoluted phraseology that soon loses the listener along the way. Political gobblegook does not set out to lose the listener but rather to give him the impression that something meaningful has been said without actually giving the words any meaning.

In that respect it's like machine translation, which I frequently compare to that little ditty
"One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight.
Back to back they face each other
Drew their swords and shot one another".

Until you start thinking about it, it sounds just fine ...

BBC News - Mandelson wins award for POLITICAL 'GOBBLEDEGOOK'
8 Dec 2009 ... Lord Mandelson wins a Plain English Campaign award for his use of political jargon and gobbledegook.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/.../8400350.stm


Management jargon and POLITICAL GOBBLEDEGOOK exert a perverse pull on my attention, despite their often deadening inanity. ...
stancarey.wordpress.com/tag/gobbledegook/

It sounds like the kind of POLITICAL GOBBLEDEGOOK that gets spit out when the answer is right there in front of everyone like a pink ...
crooksandliars.com/.../corporate-ceos-teach-economic-catch-22-boog

It wasn't one of the more heavyweight reports: more an opportunity to mock official and POLITICAL GOBBLEDEGOOK (and why not). ...
www.simplificationcentre.org.uk

Gobbledygook or gobbledegook (sometimes gobbledegoo) is any text containing JARGON or especially CONVOLUTED English that results in it being excessively hard to understand or even INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
[ ... ] The term gobbledygook was coined by former US Representative Maury Maverick, then working for the Smaller War Plants Corporation, in a March 30, 1944 memo banning "gobbledygook language".[2] It was a reaction to his frustration with the "CONVOLUTED LANGUAGE OF BUREAUCRATS."[3] He made up the word as an onomatopoeic imitation of a turkey's gobble
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobbledygook

LANGUE DE BOIS is the French term for the special language that was spoken and written by Communist leaders and functionaries. IT IS HARD TO DEFINE BUT EASY TO RECOGNIZE. It is simultaneously high-flown and supremely dull; it never descends to particulars; it confuses abstract aspiration with actual achievement; it is terminally humorless; it disguises obvious lies, and tries to preclude any opposition, by resort to pompous moral banalities and abstractions. It acts almost instantly on the mind as a general anesthetic, but without the soothing element of sleep.
It did not disappear with the fall of the Berlin Wall. Politicians are by nature inclined to use it when in a tight corner, as are bureaucrats and senior executives. But in my opinion, this year’s Brezhnev Prize for langue de bois ought to be awarded forthwith to Dr. Bernard Kouchner, France’s foreign minister (and one of the founders of Medecins Sans Frontieres), for his article “For Greece, for Europe.” It was published in the French newspaper Liberation on May 10.
The question that arises as soon as one starts to read is whether the words used in it correspond to any actual thoughts. Is there anyone who, within the fastness of his own skull, actually thinks like this? Or is it all merely a performance, an act? I think it must be the latter; if the former, only a Frankenstein’s monster would not go mad with boredom with his own cerebration.
A few quotations will be enough to establish the point:
"Let us not give in to facile anxiety-provoking, declinist speeches, and looks things in the face. This crisis demonstrates only one thing: that we have need of Europe more than ever. Europe was born in crisis and will emerge stronger from this ordeal. Of this I am certain …"
These are not the worlds of a politician cornered by a journalist who has asked a difficult and awkward question, who is trying to buy time by hiding behind vague generalities. They are the considered words of a senior politician who is voluntarily committing them to print.
The article goes from bad to worse:
"We are motivated by a very simple and very strong conviction: to help Greece today is to protect our common currency but also to defend the incomes and the work of the French people tomorrow. Over and above the debates among the twenty-seven states, the solidarity of Europeans is total."
This is a combination of MAGICAL THINKING — THAT SOMEHOW TO WISH A THING, SUCH AS THE FUTURE PROSPERITY OF THE FRENCH PEOPLE, IS AUTOMATICALLY TO BRING IT ABOUT — AND LYING, DRESSED UP IN THE MOST WOODEN OF WOODEN TERMS. What could the total solidarity of Europeans mean? There isn’t even total solidarity in a small village, let alone across twenty-seven countries. Many Germans now despise the Greeks and many Greeks hate the Germans. The only total solidarity to be found is probably among the bureaucrats of Brussels who know on which side of every question their expenses claims are signed.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/langue-de-bois-the-newspeak-dic...
Peer comment(s):

agree Rachel Fell
19 mins
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for your help!"
+2
2 mins

doublespeak

?
Note from asker:
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Many thanks for your help!
Peer comment(s):

agree Sheila Wilson
31 mins
agree B D Finch
14 hrs
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+1
19 mins

set / wooden language

"De la langue de bois = About the set language"

"In rhetoric, wooden language (calque of the French expression langue de bois) refers to a diverting of attention from reality by using certain vague and ambiguous words, such as banalities too abstract or pompous, which appeal to sentiment and emotionality rather than to facts."
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Peer comment(s):

agree Maia Tabet : This may be correct but I doubt very many people know the nomenclatures of rhetoric, and wooden language to an ordinary speaker of English does not evoke much.
5 hrs
Thank you. As in many other cases the fact is that in this case most French speakers have an idea of what this is about but someone has to translate it and we are just trying to help.
neutral B D Finch : I thought that wooden language was language devoid of emotion.// Who writes Wikipedia? I think Collins Dictionary (or Websters) would be more authoritative for something like this.
14 hrs
Apparently not according to Wikipedia, but I understand your point.
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46 mins

waffling

a possibility
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1 hr

sound bite

not exactly the same, but might work depending on your context
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3 hrs

stonewalling

Langue de bois: discours figé, constitué de formules toutes faites, stéréotypées, associé à la propagande... Exemple typique: en Union Soviétique à l'époque.
Comme il s'agit d'un terme un peu colloquial, "stonewalling" convient mieux que "set language" (= propos de circonstance...).

NOTA: un peu différent du double language (double speak ???), qui est plus proche de la simple dissimulation de vérité.
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+1
6 hrs

mealy-mouthed? obfuscation?

Given no context, it's hard to feel super-confident. The other meaning of langue de bois is a hangover.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2010-10-25 00:33:04 GMT)
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Could formulaic work?

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Note added at 6 hrs (2010-10-25 00:53:29 GMT)
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Oops, that's gueule de bois -- the hangover I mean!
Note from asker:
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Peer comment(s):

agree B D Finch : Obfuscation - but is the register correct?
8 hrs
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7 hrs

blurb

I would say ...
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+1
14 hrs

empty rhetoric

Oxford:
rhetoric: language designed to have a pursuasive or impressive effect on its audience, but which is often regarded as lacking in sincerity or meaningful content, e.g. all we have from the Opposition is empty rhetoric.
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Peer comment(s):

agree Philippa Smith : And I like this one too...
2 hrs
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+1
17 hrs

political platitude/s

Note from asker:
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Peer comment(s):

agree Philippa Smith : I like this solution...
14 mins
Thanks, Philippa
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