| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Food for thought Thread poster: Stéphanie Denton (X)
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Tatty 
Local time: 15:20
Spanish to English
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An MA is another example of what you are talking about.
I loved that titbit about the origin of French words beginning with h, very useful indeed.
| | | | Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 10:20
Portuguese to English
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The rule I always use (and teach) is "an" before a vowel SOUND (even though the letter may be a consonant) and "a" before a consonant SOUND.
So: a university, a unique solution ("u" pronounced as Y), but:
an umbrella, an unsolved problem
One that is particularly tricky is "a unanimous decision" (pronounced "yu", but many people think that "un" is pronounced like the opposite prefix, e.g. unable)
Other cases often overlooked are: a Euro, a European cou... See more The rule I always use (and teach) is "an" before a vowel SOUND (even though the letter may be a consonant) and "a" before a consonant SOUND.
So: a university, a unique solution ("u" pronounced as Y), but:
an umbrella, an unsolved problem
One that is particularly tricky is "a unanimous decision" (pronounced "yu", but many people think that "un" is pronounced like the opposite prefix, e.g. unable)
Other cases often overlooked are: a Euro, a European country, (eu pronounced as YU) and a one-way street (the O has a "w" sound).
Letters sounding like vowels take an: an MBA /em-bee-eigh/, an RSA qualification /ah-ess-eigh/.
Words starting with H take "a" when the H is sounded (a house) and "an" when silent (an honour).
I hope this helps.
PAUL ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Interesting! | Apr 11, 2011 |
Thank you all for those explanations!
I remembered the rules for English (regarding "u", "h" etc) from university classes, but I had no idea about the French rule according to which the pronunciation of the "h" ("le hibou" as opposed to "l'histoire" for instance) depends on the origin of the word - that's very interesting indeed!
Cécile
| | | | Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 10:20
Portuguese to English
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Further to my answer, remember that use of a/an can vary in the case of words beginning with H, depending on local pronunciation, so although most people in England would say "a house", a Cockney would of course say "an 'ouse" (not pronouncing the H, as in "in 'Artford, 'Ereford and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly 'appen").
Also, although we pronounce the "H" in "herb" and thus say "a herb", it seems (perhaps someone from the land of Barack "Yes We Can" Obama can shed light on this) t... See more Further to my answer, remember that use of a/an can vary in the case of words beginning with H, depending on local pronunciation, so although most people in England would say "a house", a Cockney would of course say "an 'ouse" (not pronouncing the H, as in "in 'Artford, 'Ereford and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly 'appen").
Also, although we pronounce the "H" in "herb" and thus say "a herb", it seems (perhaps someone from the land of Barack "Yes We Can" Obama can shed light on this) that in the United States the "h" in herb is silent, so the Americans would say "an herb".
PAUL ▲ Collapse
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Adam Łobatiuk
Poland
Local time: 15:20
Member (2009)
English to Polish
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Paul Dixon wrote:
Also, although we pronounce the "H" in "herb" and thus say "a herb", it seems (perhaps someone from the land of Barack "Yes We Can" Obama can shed light on this) that in the United States the "h" in herb is silent, so the Americans would say "an herb".
PAUL
My favo(u)rite comedian has this to say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs5H7cgcpkg
(some strong language there)
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Jack Doughty wrote:
Why is it "le hibou" when for almost every other word beginning with "h" it is "l'h..."?
I've always considered that "h muet vs. h aspiré" thing in French quite annoying. The only reasonable explanation is for "heroes", where you have "L (pause) Ero", since in plural it would sound like "Le Zero". Others I had to learn by heart.
Every language has such peculiarities. In my language (and many other Slavic languages), we have "fleeting a", where "a" comes and goes apparently randomly in word declensions.
BTW, why is it "it is time we WENT", in English, not "it is time we go"?
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Aleksandar Gasic wrote:
BTW, why is it "it is time we WENT", in English, not "it is time we go"?
This is a subjunctive in disguise. But unless I’m mistaken the present subjunctive would work too.
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I realize it is subjunctive, not particularly disguised even, but I am a bit confused as to why? There are many similar "subjective" statements with good ol' indicative.
I'd be grateful if some native speaker told me if present subj. would be OK here. I've never heard anyone use pres.subj. Even people who treat us with delights like "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" use (what I think they think is) past tense.
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Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
French to English
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| No it wouldn't | Apr 16, 2011 |
Ambrose Li wrote: Aleksandar Gasic wrote:
BTW, why is it "it is time we WENT", in English, not "it is time we go"? This is a subjunctive in disguise. But unless I’m mistaken the present subjunctive would work too.
You couldn't phrase it like that - it sounds very "non-native speaker".
[Edited at 2011-04-16 16:00 GMT]
| | | | Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 10:20
Portuguese to English
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In the phrase "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" as mentioned, I feel "if I should have made..." sounds better. Don't you agree?
| | | | Ashley Wans
United States
Local time: 06:20
Spanish to English
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Paul Dixon wrote:
In the phrase "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" as mentioned, I feel "if I should have made..." sounds better. Don't you agree?
"I should of" is not correct. People sometimes write this because when you say "should have" it can sound like "should uv", which leads some to think that the phrase is "should of". It's not. "Should of" makes no sense.
| | | | | regional difference? | Apr 17, 2011 |
Rachel Fell wrote: Ambrose Li wrote: Aleksandar Gasic wrote:
BTW, why is it "it is time we WENT", in English, not "it is time we go"? This is a subjunctive in disguise. But unless I’m mistaken the present subjunctive would work too. You couldn't phrase it like that - it sounds very "non-native speaker". [Edited at 2011-04-16 16:00 GMT]
Maybe it’s a regional difference. It certainly does not sound non-native to me (which doesn’t mean I am native but that some native speakers here (i.e., in Canada) do actually speak like this).
ETA: Or do you mean my mention of subjunctives? Sure if that’s what you mean you’re absolutely right. Subjunctives exist only in textbooks =P
[Edited at 2011-04-17 04:12 GMT]
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Paul Dixon wrote:
In the phrase "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" as mentioned, I feel "if I should have made..." sounds better. Don't you agree?
I just gave that sentence as an example of bad language. It was actually written by a native speaker. In English I learned, the correct form of 3rd conditional would be "if I HAD MADE (not "should have", it is just plan wrong in if clause) another step, I WOULD HAVE stepped on YOUR toes".
Then again, it is English I learned. Times they are a changing, as Dylan said.
| | | | Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
French to English
+ ...
[quote]Aleksandar Gasic wrote:
Paul Dixon wrote:
In the phrase "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" as mentioned/quote]
It was actually written by a native speaker. In English I learned, the correct form of 3rd conditional would be "if I HAD MADE (not "should have", it is just plan wrong in if clause) another step, I WOULD HAVE stepped on YOUR toes".
Then again, it is English I learned. Times they are a changing, as Dylan said.
I agree, as a UK speaker (some US English past tense usage is different), though I'd probably use a different verb: "if I had taken another step I would have stepped on your toes"
| | | | Ashley Wans
United States
Local time: 06:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Natives do sometimes use "would of" | Apr 18, 2011 |
Aleksandar Gasic wrote: Paul Dixon wrote:
In the phrase "if I should of made another step I would of stepped on you're toes" as mentioned, I feel "if I should have made..." sounds better. Don't you agree? I just gave that sentence as an example of bad language. It was actually written by a native speaker. In English I learned, the correct form of 3rd conditional would be "if I HAD MADE (not "should have", it is just plan wrong in if clause) another step, I WOULD HAVE stepped on YOUR toes". Then again, it is English I learned. Times they are a changing, as Dylan said.
Native English speakers do sometimes write "would of" and the "bad language" example you posted does actually come up fairly often. I just meant to point out that it is in fact bad language as you said; I wasn't trying to say that YOUR language is bad (it's not).
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