| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Could ProZ please distinguish between translation agencies and direct customers? Thread poster: Christel Zipfel
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 13:54
Member (2007)
English
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| Take everything into account | Dec 7, 2014 |
@Tyke: you're ignoring some very important factors. I firmly believe that we should deliver quality texts to all clients, as you do. That's why I always check and recheck my work. But that simply isn't enough for publication quality. For that, the "second pair of eyes" is essential. I expect an agency to provide that (or take the flak if I've left a typo). For a direct client, I'm their only professional contact, so I'm responsible for it. I either charge the client for the service or I invoice ... See more @Tyke: you're ignoring some very important factors. I firmly believe that we should deliver quality texts to all clients, as you do. That's why I always check and recheck my work. But that simply isn't enough for publication quality. For that, the "second pair of eyes" is essential. I expect an agency to provide that (or take the flak if I've left a typo). For a direct client, I'm their only professional contact, so I'm responsible for it. I either charge the client for the service or I invoice with a note that it hasn't been done (as per our agreement). Should I be providing the service for free? If so, why?
In addition, there's the question of liability. When we work with agencies then our liability is only equal to the amount paid by them i.e. if everything goes pear-shaped we waive payment. They asked for a translation so the only loss is the translation (i.e. our work). When we work directly with a client who'll be publishing that translation, we can get into legal liability problems if we've mistranslated a figure or a date, missed a negative, or left some other minor typo with mega consequences. Our T&C may limit our liability but there's always extra risk with added responsibility.
Those are just two of the justifications for charging direct clients extra. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | End customer profiles | Dec 7, 2014 |
I entirely agree with you, Sheila.
But I still think that the difference between direct clients and agencies is rather clear on ProZ.
A direct client has an end customer profile and good direct clients don't necessarily take the providers with the cheapest price on. I got quite a few direct clients through ProZ this year. I made an offer, we had a talk on the phone or an exchange by mail and when they thought I understood what they exactly wanted they decided to work wi... See more I entirely agree with you, Sheila.
But I still think that the difference between direct clients and agencies is rather clear on ProZ.
A direct client has an end customer profile and good direct clients don't necessarily take the providers with the cheapest price on. I got quite a few direct clients through ProZ this year. I made an offer, we had a talk on the phone or an exchange by mail and when they thought I understood what they exactly wanted they decided to work with me (and did close their profile on ProZ, translator found). Of course there are also other direct clients just as there are bad paying agencies. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Christel Zipfel
Local time: 14:54
Member (2004)
Italian to German
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TOPIC STARTER | Of course it is not difficult | Dec 8, 2014 |
to find out whether the outsourcer is an agency or a direct customer, at least normally, and here I agree totally with you, Andrea.
But in my experience, by far the biggest part of jobs here on ProZ are offered by agencies and not by direct customers and so "normally" an average translator could not be induced to check out especially this circumstance.
My post was occasioned by several jobs posted here casually within a short time by direct customers and that's why I thought it wou... See more to find out whether the outsourcer is an agency or a direct customer, at least normally, and here I agree totally with you, Andrea.
But in my experience, by far the biggest part of jobs here on ProZ are offered by agencies and not by direct customers and so "normally" an average translator could not be induced to check out especially this circumstance.
My post was occasioned by several jobs posted here casually within a short time by direct customers and that's why I thought it would be nice to be able to distinguish them at first glance.
For the reasons that have been pointed out, and for several more, as I wrote already in other occasions when the same issue has been discussed, it is absolutely advised and wise that we charge differently and it would be economically incongruous and harm our whole category if we didn't.
I'll try to explain what I mean with a simple example: imagine a direct customer that normally pays 100 to his translator. Now, for whatever reason, he is looking for an agency (he needs different languages, a different field, e.g. giuridical, and so on). Of course he expects to pay still 100. Instead, the cost estimate of the first 5 agencies agencies is 200 or more. What does he do? He looks for an agency that offers the same service at 100. Finally, the umpteenth agency is willing to charge 100, but of course it will pay only 50 or less to their translator. If this translator by chance worked too for a direct customer at this price, the rates would drop still more than they already do, to the detriment of all of us.
Furthermore, like explained by Andrea, agencies do the marketing for us and that means time and money.
In my experience, dealing with direct customers is more time and resource consuming and frankly I don't see why we shouldn't be paid for this. In addition, we bear the whole payment risk with them whilst agencies are supposed to pay anyway, even if their customer doesn't. At least, I have been paid always and in time and have never known whether they have experienced problems, if ever. That is part of their risk and it is calculated in our rates. But of course, it can happen not to be paid by agencies too, if they go bankrupt.
Sheila in her last post made an excellent point which is to bear in mind absolutely in addition to what already has been said. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Are there really direct clients on ProZ who are looking for agencies? | Dec 8, 2014 |
Thank you, Christel. I see now why you suggest to distinguish between agencies and direct customers on ProZ.
I do not think though that direct customers are looking for agencies on ProZ. If they want to deal with an agency instead of dealing with several freelancers for a multilingual project I think they would directly search for an agency on google , the yellow pages etc.
In my eyes ProZ can be interesting for direct clients who are looking for a freelance translator ... See more Thank you, Christel. I see now why you suggest to distinguish between agencies and direct customers on ProZ.
I do not think though that direct customers are looking for agencies on ProZ. If they want to deal with an agency instead of dealing with several freelancers for a multilingual project I think they would directly search for an agency on google , the yellow pages etc.
In my eyes ProZ can be interesting for direct clients who are looking for a freelance translator with the specialty field they need because those freelancers are much more difficult to find on the net then agencies.
The direct clients I knew via ProZ never would have had the idea to work with an agency. They were clearly looking for a direct contact with their translator to be sure they get what they want.
I don't think neither that a lot of agencies do participate on bidding. When I post a job offer because I have a multilingual project to deal with, there are up to 60 translators responding and maximum 3 agencies (generally speaking in the very low cost sector from India, Eastern Europe and one English agency that turns up regularly all of them proposing around 0,06 € TTC per word!!!!!!)
I think most clients will be intelligent enough to see what quality they might get for that price.
Well and if ever there are agencies who decide to pay 50 instead of 100 as you say it is up to us to refuse! ▲ Collapse
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Christel Zipfel
Local time: 14:54
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I am not an agency | Dec 11, 2014 |
Andrea Halbritter wrote:
Thank you, Christel. I see now why you suggest to distinguish between agencies and direct customers on ProZ.
I do not think though that direct customers are looking for agencies on ProZ. If they want to deal with an agency instead of dealing with several freelancers for a multilingual project I think they would directly search for an agency on google , the yellow pages etc.
In my eyes ProZ can be interesting for direct clients who are looking for a freelance translator with the specialty field they need because those freelancers are much more difficult to find on the net then agencies.
The direct clients I knew via ProZ never would have had the idea to work with an agency. They were clearly looking for a direct contact with their translator to be sure they get what they want.
and never said I am. This must be a misunderstanding.
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Why do you think that I think that you were an agency? I know that you are not.
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