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Salonlöwe

Englisch translation: lion of the salons

Glossareintrag (aus Frage unten abgeleitet)
Deutsch Begriff oder Satz:Salonlöwe
Englisch Übersetzung:lion of the salons
Eingetragen von: David Williams

08:22 Jan 23, 2009
Übersetzungen Deutsch > Englisch [PRO]
Social Sciences - Geschichte / Social history
Deutsch Begriff oder Satz: Salonlöwe
"der vermögender Bankierssohn und Salonlöwen des wilhelminischen Deutschland"
Referring to Harry Graf Kessler, who was certainly active in Berlin's salon society in the 1890s. I'm thinking along the lines of "the wealthy banker’s son from the salon society of Wilhelmine Germany".
David Williams
Deutschland
Local time: 05:13
lion of the salons
Erklärung:
This expression is often used and totally appropriate for Kessler. Just in case there is any doubt, these are literary or cultural salons, not just drawing rooms. Apologies if I am teaching Grandma to suck eggs.

http://books.google.com/books?id=F0N59g93EBYC&pg=PA106&lpg=P...

Humboldt had long regarded the French capital as his true home. There he found, not only scientific sympathy, but the social stimulus which his vigorous and healthy mind eagerly craved. He was equally in his element as the lion of the salons and as the savant of the institute and the observatory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Bi6H6TG6_oC&pg=PA161&lpg=P...

http://books.google.com/books?id=-eMhMvFYb0sC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2009-01-30 09:24:01 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, again, for the points.
Ausgewählte Antwort von:

Helen Shiner
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 04:13
Grading comment
Thank you!!!
4 KudoZ-Punkte wurden für diese Antwort vergeben



Zusammenfassung aller eingereichten Antworten
4 +7lion of the salons
Helen Shiner
5 +4Lounge lizard
Martin Robinshaw
4 +4society lion
Alexander Ryshow
3 +3socialite, society man
BrigitteHilgner
2salon playboy
Jonathan MacKerron
Summary of reference entries provided
Kessler
Helen Shiner

  

Antworten


5 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 5/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +4
Salonlöwen
Lounge lizard


Erklärung:
http://www.dict.cc/?s=Salonlöwe&failed_kw=Salonlöwen

Martin Robinshaw
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 04:13
Muttersprache: Englisch

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung  Charles Rothwell (X): I agree. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lounge lizard
2 Min.
Zustimmung  Textklick
7 Min.
Zustimmung  Sven Petersson
18 Min.
Zustimmung  Jutta Schandel
29 Min.
Widerspruch  Helen Shiner: I disagree on the basis of Kessler's biography - he was a very productive writer, Kulturkritiker and supporter of many aspects of the arts and many artists, initiator of projects. He had no time for lazy lounge lizardry.
1 Stunde
  -> I would suggest 'socialite' as a more apposite term in that case.
Zustimmung  Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
2 Tage 21 Stunden
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6 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +4
Salonlöwen
society lion


Erklärung:


Alexander Ryshow
Belarus
Local time: 06:13
Arbeitsgebiet
Muttersprache: Russisch

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung  Angela Parker: "Lounge lizard" sounds a bit too negative to me
2 Stunden
  -> Danke, Angela!
Zustimmung  Helen Shiner: I think this is another good solution to the problem in Kessler's case.
2 Stunden
  -> Danke, Helen!
Zustimmung  franglish
6 Stunden
  -> Danke!
Zustimmung  Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
2 Tage 21 Stunden
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5 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +3
Salonlöwen
socialite, society man


Erklärung:
Meint Pons Collins Großwörterbuch.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2009-01-23 08:51:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I don't know about the "salon aspect" that depends on the context. If they are important I could imagine that the "salons" are mentioned at some other point in the text? What precisely do you want to say about Graf Kessler?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-23 10:09:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hm - I find this a bit amazing - I would have thought that you can be a socialite and a pacifist at the same time. Or does the text want to stress that he was somewhat lazy and superficial in his youth and then became more serious and involved?

BrigitteHilgner
Österreich
Local time: 05:13
Muttersprache: Deutsch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 32
Hinweise an den Beantworter der Frage
Fragesteller: Yes, I was contemplating socialite, but wouldn't it be necessary to specify the salon aspect? Maybe not.

Fragesteller: The text says that he changed from this, in his early years, becoming a convinced republican and pacifist in later life.

Fragesteller: Indeed, but I guess it is the apparent contrast between his "prewar aestheticism and his postwar politics" (see ref. below) that this is getting at.


Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung  Nicole Schnell
3 Min.
  -> Danke schön, Nicole.
Zustimmung  Paul Skidmore: For an academic / semi-academic publication I would use "socialite"
40 Min.
  -> Thank you, Paul. As usual, context is important.
Zustimmung  Tanja K
1 Stunde
  -> Danke schön, Tanja.
Neutraler Kommentar  Helen Shiner: I don't think this is strong enough - the lion bit is missing./'Lion of the salons' is often used, as is the verb to lionise which is related. These were people who were at the centre of cultural happenings, nothing to do with pussy cats.
2 Stunden
  -> I think "Salonlöwen" were more the pussy cat version - not the real thing. ;-)
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17 Min.   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Salonlöwen
salon playboy


Erklärung:
yet another

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-01-23 10:28:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

less perjorative= mainstay of Berlin's salon crowd/scene/landscape

Jonathan MacKerron
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 47
Hinweise an den Beantworter der Frage
Fragesteller: That may be going a BIT too far.

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2 Stunden   Antwortsicherheit: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Zustimmung (Netto): +7
Salonlöwen
lion of the salons


Erklärung:
This expression is often used and totally appropriate for Kessler. Just in case there is any doubt, these are literary or cultural salons, not just drawing rooms. Apologies if I am teaching Grandma to suck eggs.

http://books.google.com/books?id=F0N59g93EBYC&pg=PA106&lpg=P...

Humboldt had long regarded the French capital as his true home. There he found, not only scientific sympathy, but the social stimulus which his vigorous and healthy mind eagerly craved. He was equally in his element as the lion of the salons and as the savant of the institute and the observatory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_von_Humboldt

http://books.google.com/books?id=4Bi6H6TG6_oC&pg=PA161&lpg=P...

http://books.google.com/books?id=-eMhMvFYb0sC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2009-01-30 09:24:01 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, again, for the points.

Helen Shiner
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 04:13
Spezialgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 105
Grading comment
Thank you!!!

Kommentare zu dieser Antwort (und Antworten vom Beantworter der Frage)
Zustimmung  Ingeborg Gowans (X): well you taught "this grandma", thanks
30 Min.
  -> Mine is 97 and as sharp as a pin - I can't teach her anything except perhaps how to turn her mobile phone on!! Thanks, Ingeborg.
Zustimmung  Ann C Sherwin: "salon lion" also gets quite a few hits if you filter out hair and beauty salons.
1 Stunde
  -> Thanks, Ann
Zustimmung  Inge Meinzer: great research! :-)
2 Stunden
  -> Thanks - he crops up in my own research, so I'm a bit of a cheat really!
Zustimmung  Lancashireman: Yet another example of why it is best to wait and see what comes in a couple of hours later, i.e. before merrily clicking away on 'agree'.
3 Stunden
  -> Thanks, Andrew
Zustimmung  franglish
3 Stunden
  -> Thank you, franglish
Zustimmung  Rebecca Garber: This fits the time period better than society lion, which I do really like for moderns.
4 Stunden
  -> Thanks, Rebecca
Zustimmung  Dr.G.MD (X)
13 Stunden
  -> Thanks, Dr G
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Reference comments


1 Stunde Zustimmung (Netto): +1
Reference: Kessler

Reference information:
"Count Harry Kessler, German diplomat, aesthete, patron of the arts, publisher, biographer, diarist, librettist, collector of art and books, army officer, and museum director, was, in W.H. Auden's opinion, 'probably the most cosmopolitan man who ever lived.' His life seems to have been written by Thomas Mann, whose fate in many ways ran parallel. Easton's THE RED COUNT can be enjoyed as both cultural history and ironic tragedy."—Harper's magazine
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/9472.php

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-23 09:56:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The life of Count Harry Kessler (1868-1937), the famous Anglo-German art patron, writer, and activist, offers a vivid and engrossing perspective on the tumultuous transformation of art and politics that took place in modern Europe between 1890 and 1930. In the first half of his career Kessler was one of the most ardent and well-known champions of aesthetic modernism in Imperial Germany, becoming a friend and patron to pioneering artists and writers of his day, most notably French sculptor Aristide Maillol, Belgian architect Henry van de Velde, English theater designer Gordon Craig, and Austrian poet and playwright Hugo von Hofmannsthal and, in his capacity as director of the Museum of Arts and Crafts in Weimar and vice-president of the German Artists League, served as a spokesman and lightning rod for embattled modern art. In the aftermath of the First World War, in which he served as a soldier, propagandist, and secret agent, Kessler embarked on a public career as a committed internationalist and pacifist, a stance that led ultimately to his exile from Germany upon the Nazi seizure of power. Making use of the recently discovered portions of Kessler's extensive diaries, one of the most remarkable journals ever written, Laird Easton explains the reasons for this startling metamorphosis, showing for the first time the continuities between Kessler's prewar aestheticism and his postwar politics and highlighting his importance within the larger history of the rise of modern art and politics. This lively narrative, the first English-language biography of Harry Kessler, provides a rich and fascinating portrait of the man whom W. H. Auden called "a crown witness of our times."
http://books.google.com/books?id=MvJRMR6zyTYC&dq=Kessler sal...

Helen Shiner
Vereinigtes Königreich
Spezialgebiet
Muttersprache: Englisch
PRO-Punkte in Kategorie: 105

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
Zustimmung  Ingeborg Gowans (X): good and extensive research which supports your answer
1 Stunde
  -> Thanks, Ingeborg - he was a fascinating and admirable man in many respects.
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