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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

la desagregación del empleo

English translation:

desegregation / elimination of segregation in employment

Added to glossary by Comunican
May 22, 2010 12:49
14 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

la desagregación del empleo

Spanish to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
I think they are mis-using this word, possibly mixing it with an English term (there are some English words in the text), and since it has a "socio" theme, anything is possible!

Do others read it that "increased diversification in the choice of tertiary education courses encourages breakdown of employment"??

A nivel europeo, la formación se mantiene como la opción política más popular para luchar contra la segregación. Los trabajadores de ambos sexos participan en la formación profesional de una manera equitativa, aun cuando las mujeres reciben de promedio un 10% de horas de formación menos. Recientemente, 10 estados miembros han puesto en marcha programas públicos de formación especialmente dedicados a luchar contra la segregación. Seguramente el número de países que han desarrollado iniciativas en este sentido desde la formación es más amplio, a pesar de que por sus características tienen poca visibilidad, sobre todo en los países en los que la responsabilidad principal de la formación está dominada por entidades privadas o instituciones educativas.

Las estadísticas muestran que en los últimos 15 años en los países de la UE el desarrollo de una mayor diversificación en la elección de estudios en la educación terciaria favorece la desagregación del empleo. En cambio esto no es aplicable a los países de la Europa Central Oriental, en los cuales la distribución de hombres y mujeres en la enseñanza superior está equilibrada sin que se haya producido idéntico efecto equilibrador en el seno de las profesiones."

Many thanks for any help
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 Desegregation
3 +7 diaggregation of employment
3 [tends to parallel] the (male:female) employment breakdown
References
disaggregation of employment

Discussion

Taña Dalglish May 24, 2010:
@ Comunican Glad you got it sorted out. However, for a proper glossary entry, perhaps you should EDIT the Spanish term "desagregación" and replace with "desEgregación". I suspected, after reading the entry 100 times, and following the various and very useful comments, that it was a sp. error. Un abrazo.
Jackie Bowman May 24, 2010:
Muriel: I’m not sure there’s a problem of comparison here.

I think they’re saying, in essence: in the EU, it’s no longer the case that most people studying law/engineering/etc are men and most people studying nursing/languages/etc are women. These days, all kinds of people choose to study all kinds of stuff at university. Result: a lot of male nurses and a lot of female engineers in the workforce.

But in the east, despite the fact that all kinds of people are choosing to study all kinds of stuff, it’s still the case that most engineers in the workforce are men and most nurses are women.

That is, the composition of the professions is not gender-neutral. There is, er, segregation.

So my very rough-and-ready draft would be:

"The statistics show that, among EU countries in the past 15 years, the wider range of study choices made by tertiary-level students is conducive to the desegregation of employment by gender. This has not been the case in the countries of Central and Eastern Europe, where the gender balance in higher education has not led to a similar balance in the professions."
Muriel Vasconcellos May 23, 2010:
I think you're both right--up to a point ...because I think the author has made the mistake of comparing an apple and an orange--academic programs, in the first case (the apple), with the male:female ratio in school (the orange), in the second case. Please take a look at the answer I have just now proposed.
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
I would suggest reading Jackie's original... explanation as well as her Discussion comment. To go back once more to the paragraph in question:

"la distribución de hombres y mujeres en la enseñanza superior está equilibrada" is clearly referring to "gender balancing" (desegregation by gender) rather than "disaggregation by gender" which is a statistical term meaning comparing the proportion of males and females in a total figure, e.g.:
"CHILDREN UNDER 5
Birth Registration
About fifty three (53.3 per cent) of births were registered in the State. ***Disagregation*** by gender showed that registration was more for females (56.0 per cent) than males (50.4%)..."
http://www.nigerianstat.gov.ng/nbsapps/cwiq/2006/survey0/out...

This quoted text, as one might expect, is from the National Bureau of Statistics, whereas the field of the question term is "Social Science, Sociology and Ethics" -- different kettle of fish.
Jackie Bowman May 23, 2010:
Exactly, liz askew. The discussion is conflating two different words. Original question was about "desagregación". My view, made plain in my suggested answer, is that it's basically a typo for "desegregación".

IMO, the text is trying to make a general point about the separation or non-separation (segregation or non-segregation) of the sexes by job type. I don't think it's making a specific point about a statistical breakdown.
liz askew May 23, 2010:
This is about "desAgregación", not "desEgregación". I think there is a danger of straying too far from the source text. Dictionary Definition - Diccionario Definición - desegregación ...
Online Translation Dicitonary Websites Diccionario Español-Inglés The Community English / Spanish ... desegregación (act of eliminating segregation) ...
www.wikilang.com/English/Spanish/desegregation/.../923953 - Cached
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
looking again at the paragraph in question... the writer him/herself appears to be defining his/her own term (desagregación) as "(un) efecto equilibrador". So the term used in English would need to be consistent with "(a) balancing effect". Seems to me that "desegregation" meets this requirement.
liz askew May 23, 2010:
BTW Muriel, there was no confusion in my mind:)
liz askew May 23, 2010:
Fine. I just wondered why there was so much debate on this word.
Muriel Vasconcellos May 23, 2010:
Liz, I agree that they are synonymous That was the intent of my first comment, though I may not have made myself clear. I usually say 'breakdown', but I thought it might lead to confusion so I didn't post it and made my discussion comment instead.
liz askew May 23, 2010:
[DOC]
Ministry of Health:
File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
There are 400 female staff working in the tailoring department of the Mol ..... monthly salary payments and disaggregate these into male and female in order to provide a reliable breakdown of males and females employed in the civil service. ... The percentage of female students enrolled in universities is very low. ...
www.mineaction.org/docs/Final_report_AAP_26-01-06.doc - Similar
liz askew May 23, 2010:
I was under the misguided? impression that "breakdown" was a synonym of "disaggregation".OECD Glossary of Statistical Terms - Disaggregation Definition
29 Jan 2004 ... Disaggregation is the breakdown of observations, usually within a common branch of a hierarchy, to a more detailed level to that at which ...
stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=4337 - Cached - Similar
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
having also researched Jackie's answer... "desegregation of employment by gender" (because other segregation factors besides gender exist: race, for instance), although not necessarily a direct translation of your term, would seem to be a perfect fit for your context... my list of results:
http://www.google.es/#hl=es&rlz=1W1ACPW_es&q="desegregation ...
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
I just looked again and... the bar with the drop-down menu is labelled "Google" and the menu items are Google (predeterminado), Ask Search, Bing, Google, Google Desktop, Buscar en esta página (the one I'm referring to), Buscar más proveedores, Administrar proveedores de búsqueda...
Seems an add-on that you can opt to have... sorry for my ignorance!
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
about the page-search function... sorry Muriel, I'm hopeless with anything technical... I know different systems may vary considerably and it would be a matter of using the Help or asking a teenager (they seem to know more about computing than anyone!) to see if you can access this function.
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
about Muriel's point, "the aggregate figures are.. 'broken down'"... -- the research I've done indicates that this is indeed the meaning of the term here (similar to "desglose"). To quote from one result, "the disaggregation of employment into productive sectors"...
However, as Muriel rightly points out, 'breakdown' has other meanings... the first one that comes to mind for me is "avería", which is something entirely different. In fact, the term in this context means more "breakUP" (= unbundling) than "breakDOWN".
Just to mention that I found results for "disaggregation of employment" that can be regarded as bona fide, i.e., not from hispanic websites (which might indicate they were translated from Spanish).
Muriel Vasconcellos May 23, 2010:
Deborah It sounds like a nice feature, but what you describe doesn't match anything in my display. Are you talking about Internet Explorer?
Bubo Coroman (X) May 23, 2010:
A tip for locating question terms quickly I apologize if everyone already knows this, but if the asker hasn't marked the question term within the context quoted, and if your system is similar to mine, you just go to a down-arrow immediately above the white "X" on the red background in the very top right corner of your screen, click on it, and from the drop-down menu which appears, you click on "Buscar en esta página". You can locate every occurrence of the term in this way. Only takes seconds. Works on other Web pages too, of course.
Muriel Vasconcellos May 22, 2010:
Depends on context In a context that is already discussing statistics, it's common to use the term 'breakdown' -- i.e., the aggregate figures are 'broken down' into more refined distinctions. This is how we say it when we speak. However, 'breakdown' as a noun has other meanings, so it may not be appropriate unless the context is clear. Another way to solve the problem is to add a head noun after 'employment', as in 'breakdown of employment figures'.
BTW, as a courtesy to answerers, it helps to mark the term in question in the context that you post, for example with double asterisks (**xxxx**).

Proposed translations

+1
11 hrs
Selected

Desegregation

... I suspect ...

I think it's trying to say that the nature of academic training in the EU means that men and women are distributed evenly throughout the different professions once they start work. Not the case, apparently, in Eastern Europe, where they have a balanced mix in the education system but then men and women tend to go into different occupations.
Peer comment(s):
agree Bubo Coroman (X)
9 hrs
Thanks, Deborah
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks everyone for your help with this knotty one. In the end, after discussing it with the client, it turns out that it should have been "desEgregación" rather than "desAgregación". Thus, the greater choice of courses in tertiary education leads to segregation in employment being eliminated or reduced... Thanks again for all your help."
+7
25 mins

diaggregation of employment

I don't think they are talking about a breakdown, but rather a division or breaking up into consitutent parts. This is how I read it.

Statistics show that over the past 15 years in the EU countries the development of a more diversified choice of study in tertiary education favours the *** disaggregation of employment **. However this does not apply to the countries of East Central Europe, where the distribution of men and women in higher education is balanced without having produced the same balancing effect within the professions.

disaggregation definition
disaggregation - definition of disaggregation from BusinessDictionary.com: Breaking up of a total (aggregate), integrated whole, or a conglomerate, ...
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/disaggregation.html - Cached - Similar
disaggregate: Definition from Answers.com
disaggregate ( ) v. , -gated , -gating , -gates . v.tr. To divide into constituent parts. v.intr. To break up or break apart.
www.answers.com/topic/disaggregate - Cached - Similar
Disaggregate | Define Disaggregate at Dictionary.com
/dɪsˈæg rɪˌgeɪt/ Show Spelled [dis-ag-ri-geyt] Show IPA verb,-gat·ed, -gat·ing. –verb (used with object). 1. to separate (an aggregate or mass) into its ...
dictionary.reference.com/browse/disaggregate - Cached - Similar
Disaggregation: Definition and additional resources from BNET
Disaggregation: the breaking apart of an alliance of companies to review their strengths and contributions as a basis for rebuilding an effective business ...
dictionary.bnet.com/definition/disaggregation.html - Cached - Similar

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2010-05-22 13:15:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops! diSaggregation!
Note from asker:
Hi Taña, and thank you for your reply. It makes sense since later in the text they say "Los países con larga tradición en políticas de desagregation tienden a afrontar la segregacion en un estadio inicial de la vida de las personas, introduciendo, al margen de acciones motivacionales, programas educativos concebidos para....". So, I'm pretty sure "disaggregation of employment" is right - one of those ugly sociology terms!
Peer comment(s):
agree Victoria Frazier
1 hr
Muchas gracias, Victoria. Tan amable como siempre. Saludos y abrazos.
agree Margarita Ezquerra (Smart Translators, S.L.)
2 hrs
Muchas gracias, Marga. Besotes.
agree James A. Walsh : Nice work Taña ;.)
3 hrs
Thanks a million, J. Abrazos y besotes.
agree Lydia De Jorge : Excellent, Sherlock!
6 hrs
Muchas gracias, Ly. Un abrazo.
agree Jenni Lukac (X)
18 hrs
Thank you so much Jenni. Buen domingo y abrazos.
agree Bubo Coroman (X)
19 hrs
Thank you so much Debs. Have a good Sunday. Abrazos.
agree liz askew : I agree with "disaggregation" but not "desegregation". I also agree with "breaKdown" as they are synonyms, but I have withdrawn my answer.
23 hrs
Thanks Liz. Very magnanimous of you. However, I believe you were premature in withdrawing your answer. I agree that it is "breakdown" or perhaps "disintegration", but the word "breadown" may lead to some confusion. But you were not wrong! Abrazos.
Something went wrong...
1 day 10 hrs
Spanish term (edited): [favorece] la desagregación del empleo

[tends to parallel] the (male:female) employment breakdown

I think I've got it!!!!!!!!

I think the author is saying that the choice of subjects in school tends, in the first case, to affect the male:female distribution of employment in later life--whereas the same is not true in the countries mentioned later, where there is an even male:female balance in school which does not carry over into the job market.

The problem is, one situation is apples and the other is oranges. This is true regardless of how you interpret the phrase in question. In the first case he is talking about a diversity of programs studied; in the other, the male:female ratio. They are not the same thing.

Bottom line: my advice would be to avoid the d-word and rephrase it.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

disaggregation of employment

Un buen artículo, por si sirve.

Saludos

http://www.bcentral.cl/Estudios/banca-central/pdf/v8/017_060...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 horas (2010-05-22 15:51:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

[PDF] AGGREGATE AND DISAGGREGATED ASPECTS OF EMPLOYMENT AND UNEMPLOYMENT - [ Traducir esta página ]Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Vista rápida
de G Bertola - Citado por 9 - Artículos relacionados
Disaggregating employment and unemployment. While the labor market mechanisms discussed in Section 2 implied that some workers could be ...
www.banrep.gov.co/documentos/seminarios/.../ponen_bertola.p... - Similares
Note from asker:
muchas gracias, Marga! Un abrazo
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Taña Dalglish : Muchas gracias, linda. Abrazos.
4 mins
Something went wrong...
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