| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | This outsourcer has been banned... Thread poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 14:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Michael Newton wrote:
Oftentimes translators who specify why they have given a "1", e.g. rude personnel, low rates, slow payment, illegible texts, etc. find themselves banned. [To state] "low rates" will incite ire from the moderators and they will force you to remove the comment.
There are unfortunately rumours that this is true. We've had members complain about this here in the Forums, where they gave a low rating along with a reason (no matter how innocent) and were forced by Staff to remove the comment for being "too personal".
| | | | | If you remove your "1" | Sep 6, 2022 |
Michael Newton wrote:
The only time I give a "1" is when the agency has not paid me and it is an incentive to pay me. Once they have paid me, I remove the "1".
after they eventually paid, others won't know they didn't pay. It would be better in my opinion to leave there your comment, maybe adding that finally the overdue payment arrived.
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For my part, I haven’t given many “1s” (just 3 or 4, if my memory serves me right), but what I did was change it for another low mark (a “2” or a “3”) when I was paid, explaining that this was done X months later…
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| Why is this outsourcer not banned? | Sep 8, 2022 |
Job posted by the 'outsourcer':
And the BB record of the same 'outsourcer':
There seems to be no end to the 5 star LWAs (mostly given by European translators).
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 08:44
Japanese to English
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| outsourcer banned | Sep 9, 2022 |
The forced removal of comments which are "too personal" shows which side proz is on.
| | | | | Outsourcers cannot be banned just because they offer low rates | Sep 9, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote: Job posted by the 'outsourcer': And the BB record of the same 'outsourcer': There seems to be no end to the 5 star LWAs (mostly given by European translators).
Hello Baran,
As you may know, outsourcers cannot be banned just because they offer low rates. Personally, I would like to see these people being banned, but offering low rates is NOT a crime on Proz. If this were the case, there would be no Indian agencies who can post jobs on Proz.
P.S. I don't work with Chinese agencies (as clearly stated on my profile), so personally, I wouldn't give a dxxn about it.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| I beg to differ | Sep 9, 2022 |
Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
Hello Baran,
As you may know, outsourcers cannot be banned just because they offer low rates. Personally, I would like to see these people being banned, but offering low rates is NOT a crime on Proz. If this were the case, there would be no Indian agencies who can post jobs on Proz.
P.S. I don't work with Chinese agencies (as clearly stated on my profile), so personally, I wouldn't give a dxxn about it.
I know that they can't be banned on that basis, but the majority of the LWAs are given by translators living in Portugal, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy etc. (42 in all). The standards of living in those countries wouldn't allow one to subsist on 0.025 USD per word. So they must be offering them higher rates, but they're insulting me with this ridiculous rate. They can be banned on account of being the discriminating, racist, hypocritical b*stards that they are. Aren't we supposed to be living in a 'woke' world? What is this discrimination then?
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Baran Keki wrote:
So they must be offering them higher rates, but they're insulting me with this ridiculous rate.
Just change your country to Sweden and you will be ok... 
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| That's a brilliant idea! | Sep 9, 2022 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote: Just change your country to Sweden and you will be ok...
But you're by no means the first one to suggest it. I think there was a Peruvian guy here (who was charging something like 4 cents per word for JP>ES) that wanted to move to Europe to command better rates. I don't know if he ever acted on his idea.. if he did, he must be living in a homeless shelter now.
| | | | | The Best Agency Rates | Sep 10, 2022 |
Before I went full-blown into literary translation, I was paid the best rates by agencies here in the US, and by one in Ireland. That seems like such a long time ago... When it seemed (or I was trying to convince myself) that MT would never be so highly developed that it would mostly replace human translators. At least in my lifetime, I was hoping.
[Edited at 2022-09-10 01:06 GMT]
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| Careful with the terminology | Sep 10, 2022 |
Barbara Cochran, MFA wrote:
I was paid the best rates by agencies here in the US, and by one in Ireland.
Nowadays the term 'best rate' is understood to be something around the region of 3-4 cents per word (typically asked and paid by Indian and Chinese agencies and also by the so-called 'London agencies' run by certain types of individuals). The one shown in my post is what I might call the 'ultra best rate'. There are newbies lurking on these forums, so we should be careful with our terminology.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Two use the same argument | Sep 10, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
The majority of the LWAs are given by translators living in Portugal, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy etc. (42 in all). The standards of living in those countries wouldn't allow one to subsist on 0.025 USD per word.
So you're using the standards-of-living argument... okay.
So they must be offering them higher rates, but they're insulting me [in Turkey] with this ridiculous rate.
But clearly they're also using the standards-of-living argument.
Five years ago EUR 1 was worth TRY 4, two years ago it doubled to TRY 8, and then about 9 months ago it suddenly doubled again to TRY 16. Looking at the inflation rate, the value of 1 TRY have halved in the past 5 years (food inflation has remained steady at around 15-20%). This means that every euro today is still worth twice as much as it was worth 5 years ago.
Penalizing agencies for low rates would have to follow some kind of calculation (to make it fair, and to make it manageable). If ProZ.com were to penalize agencies that use a fake standards-of-living argument when offering low rates that are not borne out by actual calculations, then... this particular offer would not have triggered the penalty.
To do this kind of calculation, ProZ.com would also have to consider whether the offered rates for English-Turkish have gone up or down since e.g. 2017. Unfortunately ProZ.com's EUR "community rates" are not on the Wayback machine, so I was unable to find the Turkish values, but I was able to compare the 2017 USD rates against 2020 USD rates. Perhaps unsurprisingly, for the European languages, rates have either remained the same or gone slightly down (download it here).
[Edited at 2022-09-10 08:40 GMT]
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| I don't care | Sep 10, 2022 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Five years ago EUR 1 was worth TRY 4, two years ago it doubled to TRY 8, and then about 9 months ago it suddenly doubled again to TRY 16. Looking at the inflation rate, the value of 1 TRY have halved in the past 5 years (food inflation has remained steady at around 15-20%). This means that every euro today is still worth twice as much as it was worth 5 years ago.
Five years ago a carton of milk was TRY 3, two years ago it doubled to TRY 7, and then about 9 months ago it suddenly doubled again to TRY 18. A can of beer was about TRY 10 3 years ago, it's now about TRY 30 (though, admittedly, different factors are at play there). Around this time last year I paid an annual rent of 47k for my flat, and I paid a cool 95k just last month. The list goes on and on. I simply don't give a shit about the FX rates. You made this comical (bordering on idiotic) argument before about the translators in South Africa. Why am I supposed to adjust my rates based on my currency? Isn't a Turkish translator living in Hamburg doing the same job as I do?
Samuel Murray wrote:
Penalizing agencies for low rates would have to follow some kind of calculation (to make it fair, and to make it manageable). If ProZ.com were to penalize agencies that use a fake standards-of-living argument when offering low rates that are not borne out by actual calculations, then... this particular offer would not have triggered the penalty.
I was being mostly sarcastic on this thread, though I'm not at all surprised that sarcasm is lost on you (along with most others on these forums).
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:44
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Very interesting | Sep 10, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
I was being mostly sarcastic on this thread, though I'm not at all surprised that sarcasm is lost on you (along with most others on these forums).
I found nothing in your posts in this thread that suggested that you weren't perfectly serious. If your intention had been to be subtly sarcastic, then I'm afraid it was too subtle. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Five years ago a carton of milk was TRY 3, two years ago it doubled to TRY 7, and then about 9 months ago it suddenly doubled again to TRY 18. Around this time last year I paid an annual rent of 47k for my flat, and I paid a cool 95k just last month. The list goes on and on.
Precisely. Standards-of-living arguments that make use of officially published statistics (such as inflation rates) typically fall short of reality. But there is no way for the Chinese client to know this. How would they know that to a real Turkish person, EUR 0.025 of five years ago is NOT worth EUR 0.05? This is not discrimination, but merely ignorance caused by being halfway around the world.
[Edited at 2022-09-10 08:49 GMT]
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:44
Member
English to Turkish
| I guess you're right | Sep 10, 2022 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
If your intention had been to be subtly sarcastic, then it was too subtle.
I think that's my trouble... I should put smilies more
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