| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | What's "really" considered offensive? Thread poster: Björn Vrooman
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| Hi. Regarding "Indians". | Jul 21, 2014 |
Maybe they like being called "Indians', but no one else (outside of the Native American culture) calls the Native American people "Indians". It is considered very offensive. They are referred to as Native Americans--at all times. (Perhaps in some old movies they may still be called 'Indians") They also pronounce the word "Indian" differently--(the sound representing the 'a"--usually a schwa, is skipped altogether, or merged with the preceding sound. Many have mingled with the other people here, ... See more Maybe they like being called "Indians', but no one else (outside of the Native American culture) calls the Native American people "Indians". It is considered very offensive. They are referred to as Native Americans--at all times. (Perhaps in some old movies they may still be called 'Indians") They also pronounce the word "Indian" differently--(the sound representing the 'a"--usually a schwa, is skipped altogether, or merged with the preceding sound. Many have mingled with the other people here, so you cannot tell them from other Americans. Some still keep their traditions.
As to "c..p", it is still used by many people in everyday speech --just like 'f..k" ("c.." is weaker), but you cannot really see it in the papers or hear it on TV.
You can call the people from India Indian, in many contexts. "Black" is not offensive--of course it may depend on the context, and African American may be preferred in most formal contexts.
With such words as "c..p', or "f..k"--it may vary depending on the location. Some people--many Christian groups in the Mid West usually do not swear at all. The Native Americans traditionally do not swear, either.
"Bitch" (if you address anyone this way) is very offensive (except rap--where it may just mean a woman). 'People of color'--a totally unimaginable word in the US--totally racist, and not used at all. I know it may be different in Britain--just more of an everyday expression.
[Edited at 2014-07-21 09:43 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Björn Vrooman
Local time: 14:32
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Mixed feelings... | Jul 21, 2014 |
[quote]LilianNekipelov wrote:
Maybe they like being called "Indians', but no one else (outside of the Native American culture) calls them "Indians". It is considered very offensive. They are referred to as Native Americans--at all times.(Perhaps in some old movies they may still be called 'Indians")
Thank you very much for your input! It may be interesting to note that I've seen the term Native Americans used together with Indian Americans/Indians:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-hard-lives--and-high-suicide-rate--of-native-american-children/2014/03/09/6e0ad9b2-9f03-11e3-b8d8-94577ff66b28_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/arizona-tribe-set-to-prosecute-first-non-indian-under-a-new-law/2014/04/18/127a202a-bf20-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/13/business/economy/us-budget-cuts-fall-heavily-on-american-indians.html?pagewanted=all
Indian or Indian-American is still prevalent in the names of regions, places, institutions, etc.:
http://www.aises.org/about
http://www.aihec.org/
http://nmai.si.edu/home/
Also, US government "documents use the terms American Indian or Alaska Native to refer to groups that have been granted federal recognition and use the term Native American to refer to groups that do not have that recognition."
http://www.learnnc.org/lp/editions/nc-american-indians/5526
As to "c..p", it is still used by many people in everyday speech --just like 'f..k" ("c.." is weaker), but you cannot really see it in the papers or hear it on TV.
No, I was talking about the other c***. You have a very interesting discussion about it on http://english.stackexchange.com (because the word is deemed to be very offensive, I will not post a direct link).
Excerpt: "After Sen. John McCain called his wife Cindy a [****] in front of a bunch of reporters in 1992, they and their editors were paralyzed. The word is so offensive here [in the US], they couldn't figure out how to even talk about it indirectly, so the incident didn't become public until years later."
But in the UK, even the Guardian spelled out the word.
[Edited at 2014-07-21 09:42 GMT]
| | | | Ty Kendall 
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:32
Hebrew to English
| 'Person of color' is American Liliana | Jul 21, 2014 |
LilianNekipelov wrote:
'People of color'--a totally unimaginable word in the US--totally racist, and not used at all. I know it may be different in Britain--just more of an everyday expression.
Lilian - the term 'person of color' is an American import:
"Person of color (plural: people of color; persons of color) is a term used primarily in the United States to describe any person who is not white....
racial justice activists in the U.S. began to use the term people of color in the late 1970s and early 1980s. By the late 1980s and early 1990s, it was in wide circulation"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color
| | | | | No, it is not used anymore--I can assure you of that, Ty, the same as | Jul 21, 2014 |
"colored people', although this one is slightly different--even worse.
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| Coalition for Queer People of Color | Jul 21, 2014 |
"Colored people" and "people of color" are two very different things. The same is true of "queer", another example that immediately popped to mind.
If someone spits a chunk of tobacco out of their pick-up truck and says: "Take a look at that there colored queer," it has nothing at all to do with someone making use of queer theory in their master's thesis on LGBT people of color in the Hollywood of the 1980s.
And I would assume that the word beginning with the letter "... See more "Colored people" and "people of color" are two very different things. The same is true of "queer", another example that immediately popped to mind.
If someone spits a chunk of tobacco out of their pick-up truck and says: "Take a look at that there colored queer," it has nothing at all to do with someone making use of queer theory in their master's thesis on LGBT people of color in the Hollywood of the 1980s.
And I would assume that the word beginning with the letter "C" ends with the letter "T" and not "P" - and that particular word is intensely vulgar in American English: I would be embarassed to use it around just about anyone except for old school friends and even then I would be embarassed to use it except in joking reference and applied to another man. ▲ Collapse
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Michael Wetzel wrote:
And I would assume that the word beginning with the letter "C" ends with the letter "T" and not "P" - and that particular word is intensely vulgar in American English: I would be embarassed to use it around just about anyone except for old school friends and even then I would be embarassed to use it except in joking reference and applied to another man.
Couldn't help but think of Bricktop when I read this.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:32
Hebrew to English
| Evidence suggests otherwise... | Jul 21, 2014 |
No, it is not used anymore--I can assure you of that, Ty, the same as "colored people', although this one is slightly different--even worse.
Police policies affect people of color disproportionately
http://www.dailycal.org/2014/06/30/police-policies-affect-people-color-disproportionately/
...dated Monday July 21, 2014.
Women, People Of Color Largely Absent From Opinion Pages
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/women-op-eds-newspapers-minorities-opinion-pages_n_5525898.html
...dated 24th June 2014
This Pride, queer people of color ‘take the goddamn stage’
http://www.seattleglobalist.com/2014/06/26/queer-people-of-color-take-the-goddamn-stage-at-pride/27087
...dated June 26th 2014
LGBT people of color need to show up
http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/readers/2014/06/27/lgbt-people-color-need-show/11546991/
...dated June 27th 2014
ACLU says police use of military equipment heavily targets people of color
http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2014/06/24/aclu-says-police-use-of-military-equipment-heavily-targets-people-of-color
...dated June 24th 2014
And let's not forget the "People of Color Network" situated in downtown Phoenix AZ.
http://pcnhealth.com/
This is from the NEW YORK TIMES only a few months ago:
Where Are the People of Color in Children’s Books?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/opinion/sunday/where-are-the-people-of-color-in-childrens-books.html?_r=0
...dated March 15th 2014
A CNN blogger's view, (who is also a 'person of color') :
http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/18/opinion-minorities-try-people-of-color/
["“People of color” is now commonly used far beyond political circles, as “minority” fades into the category of things that used to be true."]
...And you can even listen to Obama using it if you like...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kWF8UTXw5g
[Edited at 2014-07-21 13:32 GMT]
| | | | | Broadening my cultural horizons | Jul 21, 2014 |
Orrin,
Thank you for the reference. I had seen the movie over a decade ago, but forgotten both the character's name and the scene.
And, to be honest, if someone came to me with a script translation from German to English for a great new film project called "Snatch", I might be inclined to query the translator's choice of words for the English title.
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neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
Orrin Cummins wrote:
Couldn't help but think of Bricktop when I read this.
Yay! Bricktop!
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:32
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| It depends on the country | Jul 21, 2014 |
It depends on the country.
In Italy people still say "una persona di colore" ("a coloured person"). That would be deeply offensive in the UK.
On the other hand if I said "a black person", which is perfectly OK in Britain, in Italian ("un nero") I imagine the Italians would find that really offensive.
Paese che vai, usanza che trovi !!
[Edited at 2014-07-21 15:36 GMT]
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 14:32
Spanish to English
+ ...
| When in Rome... | Jul 21, 2014 |
Tom in London wrote:
It depends on the country.
In Italy people still say "una persona di colore" ("a coloured person"). That would be deeply offensive in the UK.
On the other hand if I said "a black person", which is perfectly OK in Britain, in Italian ("un nero") I imagine the Italians would find that really offensive.
Paese che vai, usanza che trovi !!
[Edited at 2014-07-21 15:36 GMT]
Too true. I remember being mildly amused by the Spanish shopkeeper downstairs furtively asking me what "el moro este" (= that Moor) was doing in my house, referring to a visiting Londoner of the less pallid variety.
| | | | Giles Watson
Italy
Local time: 14:32
Italian to English
In memoriam | Nero, negro e di colore | Jul 21, 2014 |
Tom in London wrote:
On the other hand if I said "a black person", which is perfectly OK in Britain, in Italian ("un nero") I imagine the Italians would find that really offensive.
But nothing like as offensive as "negro"!
There's a nice little essay from the Accademia della Crusca's magazine La Crusca per voi on the shifting shades of meaning attached to "nero", "di colore" and the - ahem - "semantically pregnant" term "negro".
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| context, target readership, purpose, etc. | Jul 22, 2014 |
As translators, our choices depend on the context of the material, who it is for, which purpose etc. In your example of "spastic", as a medical term in regards to a medical condition, written for medical personnel, it's the right word. But if someone moves clumsily and it's said casually in a diner, it is offensive.
The native people in North America are called Native Americans, though in Canada I see "First Nations" more often. Yet we still have the Department of Indian Affairs ... See more As translators, our choices depend on the context of the material, who it is for, which purpose etc. In your example of "spastic", as a medical term in regards to a medical condition, written for medical personnel, it's the right word. But if someone moves clumsily and it's said casually in a diner, it is offensive.
The native people in North America are called Native Americans, though in Canada I see "First Nations" more often. Yet we still have the Department of Indian Affairs (which serves First Nations people - including the Inu, who used to be called "Eskimos). If I were translating such material, I would first check what the accepted terminology is for that department or whatever.
A female dog is a bitch, and in a dog breeding article, that is the word you used. Calling someone a bitch is offensive. But I once translated material where the intent was crude and offensive, and in my translation I wrote "That bitch had it coming to her." That wording reflected the intent and tone.
Then what if your material is historical, and you need your target text to sound authentic for the period: a play or novel, with the instruction to be historical. Would your cowboy 200 years ago shout "The Native Americans are coming! The Native Americans are coming!" in the typical western novel? And if someone historical was "gay and merry", will we think of jovial homosexuals? Or do we adjust to the language of the time and place? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daniel Bird
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:32
German to English
| No offence... | Jul 22, 2014 |
No discussion on offensive matter is ever complete without a reference to the leading English style guide for proper oral etiquette and verbal good manners:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger's_Profanisaurus
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 05:32
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | You need to watch more TV, I guess :-) | Jul 23, 2014 |
LilianNekipelov wrote:
'People of color'--a totally unimaginable word in the US--totally racist, and not used at all.
Especially the TV commercial for the mineral facial powder that (quote:) comes in beautiful shades for women of color.
In general:
You can use any "offensive" term as much as you like - provided you belong to the same group.
Black people call each other niggers. Women call each other bitches. Indians call each other Indians. These terms become offensive only if you don't belong to the addressed group and if the term is meant in a derogative manner.
Edited for typo
[Edited at 2014-07-23 01:35 GMT]
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