| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4] > | not checking glossary Initiator des Themas: RHELLER
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RHELLER
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 18:24
Französisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | possible panel selection | Feb 1, 2006 |
suggestion:
panels should be composed of 2-4 members and must be specialized by language pair and by field; for example, Fr-Eng, electronics, NOT just "technical" (I find it hard to believe that translators can be equally specialized in every technical field).
Members should not be new; I would suggest perhaps 2 years on proz? maybe others have a better idea.
The advantages are: fewer challenges to the panel's authority if the field is narrow AND the volunteer ... See more suggestion:
panels should be composed of 2-4 members and must be specialized by language pair and by field; for example, Fr-Eng, electronics, NOT just "technical" (I find it hard to believe that translators can be equally specialized in every technical field).
Members should not be new; I would suggest perhaps 2 years on proz? maybe others have a better idea.
The advantages are: fewer challenges to the panel's authority if the field is narrow AND the volunteer will be called upon less (perhaps 5 terms/week?).
These are just thoughts. I would be interested to hear some bright ideas from the gang. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gina W
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 20:24
Mitglied (2003)
Französisch > Englisch
| It may be as "easy as that" but | Feb 1, 2006 |
Kim Metzger wrote:
gad wrote:
... I have to say that there are also times when a person knows that the term exists in the glossary already but posts it to inquire what the translation is in a particular context.
I know I don't like seeing those little "Ask the Asker" notes that some individuals are so fond of posting, saying things like "This is already in the glossary" or "You're supposed to check the glossary".
Hi gad,
People who don't like seeing those little Ask the Asker reminders, should just tell the people whose help they're seeking that they've already checked the glossaries. It's as easy as that. All it takes is a short note to the community letting them know they understand how KudoZ is supposed to work - because there are so many who don't seem to.
Answerers aren't mind readers, and they deserve well-prepared questions.
Cheers, Kim
Kim, I respectfully disagree with that. What I said was that some people jump on someone who SEEMS TO post a duplicate questions by posting a snippy little remark about it already being in the glossary, but the fact is that the term in the glossary may not be in the right context. And the answerer should bother to thoroughly look at the context of the old questions and then the new question before posting such a remark. Saying that answerers aren't mind readers really doesn't cover it. Also saying that answerers deserve well-prepared questions isn't relevant, since the scenario I described ENTAILS well-prepared questions that the answerer doesn't bother to read thoroughly before jumping in with a snippy little remark. That is inappropriate and rude. I see it all the time from certain individuals who must think that they own KudoZ, but they don't. Like I said, they go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about "context" yet they do not even read the context of certain (VERY well-prepared) questions, apparently.
Don't make excuses for answerers who post notes that indicate that they have not read context. They may not be "mind readers", but they should read the context. And no, askers should NOT have to say anything back to the answerer (or non-answerer who simply posts a snippy note to imply that the asker has nerve posting the question in the first place), since the note should not be posted until and unless the full context is read and understood. Jumping in with a snide little note is just annoying, and not the least bit constructive besides.
So while you are correct that the asker can just explain, I don't see why an asker should HAVE TO, when it really should be up to an answerer to READ THE CONTEXT of the question before posting any kind of note. These answerers could show some sort of tolerance - I mean,imagine if someone is new on KudoZ and gets that type of note instead of something constructive and helpful? Does that type of note encourage newcomers, WHO HAVE POSTED VERY GOOD QUESTIONS, to continue to use KudoZ? Probably not, and that is a real shame.
[Edited at 2006-02-01 11:46]
| | | | | Could we have an unclassified alphabetic list? | Feb 1, 2006 |
Something I miss is a totally unclassified alphabetic list.
Several times I am almost certain that a term should be there, but it is not where I am looking.
Some medical terms can appear under several different fields of medicine, and the same applies to legal terms and lots of technical terms.
It takes a long time to search section by section and I am often tired and desperate for time when I use KudoZ, having drawn a blank on all the other resources...
<... See more Something I miss is a totally unclassified alphabetic list.
Several times I am almost certain that a term should be there, but it is not where I am looking.
Some medical terms can appear under several different fields of medicine, and the same applies to legal terms and lots of technical terms.
It takes a long time to search section by section and I am often tired and desperate for time when I use KudoZ, having drawn a blank on all the other resources...
Just skimming through EVERYTHING like a hard copy dictionary would make it easy to see at a glance whether the term was there, possibly concealed in a phrase, and then there would be no excuse for not searching before posting the term (again).
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I like the idea of a panel too.
There are no moderators directly assigned to some pairs (Danish-English for instance) - but in that pair there seem to be comparatively few problems, and there are a couple of Swedish moderators whom I would be happy to ask if any problem did arise.
But would it be possible to have a 'refer to panel' function?
I imagine a way people with eg, 500 points or 2 years' experience or some suitable qualification could refer 'flagged' questions to the panel.
This still leaves the matter of appointing a panel or panels in language pairs and fields of expertise, but as KOG grows, it will be necessary to revise it and weed out the worst snags.
Great discussion! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gina W
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 20:24
Mitglied (2003)
Französisch > Englisch
| Interesting idea | Feb 1, 2006 |
Rita Heller wrote:
suggestion:
panels should be composed of 2-4 members and must be specialized by language pair and by field; for example, Fr-Eng, electronics, NOT just "technical" (I find it hard to believe that translators can be equally specialized in every technical field).
Members should not be new; I would suggest perhaps 2 years on proz? maybe others have a better idea.
The advantages are: fewer challenges to the panel's authority if the field is narrow AND the volunteer will be called upon less (perhaps 5 terms/week?).
These are just thoughts. I would be interested to hear some bright ideas from the gang.
Rita, this is an interesting idea. My only concern is that such a "panel" might serve to further exclude newcomers/infrequent users of KudoZ, and might also feed into the egoes of certain individuals who may already have too much power on KudoZ (remember that answerers with over 500 points can edit other people's questions, and quite a few people do so without respecting the asker's actual question). I really would like the KudoZ system to be more welcoming to newcomers - granted, it's good to continuously improve upon the quality of the questions and the system overall, but let's just make sure that every new thing that we implement does not further exclude newcomers or others who ask occasional questions to/on KudoZ.
Also, there already is a function in place that when an asker posts a question, any similar/duplicate previous questions appear at the top of the second page, before the question is definitively posted. I had mentioned in a previous post on this thread that this CAN BE easy to almost miss, however it is there. It's what has caught me from almost posting duplicate questions, even though I ALWAYS check the ProZ.com Term search before posting a question, there are times when there must be a glich in that system, so as I mentioned this "double check" has prevented me from posting the duplicate questions.
However, on the other hand, since you are proposing panels that are rather specialized, perhaps that way there will be enough people on each particular "panel" so as not to exclude too many individuals. The thing is, then how does one determine who is an expert in each particular field? I know some individuals who are pretty much self-professed experts in certain fields, who I do not consider as such, and I'm sure there are others who may be more of experts but are not so arrogant or showy about it. How would we test for this?
I respect the moderators in our language pair, I think they are fair and do a good job. I haven't agreed with them 100%, but then again I have agreed with them a high percentage of the time, and also whether or not I would agree with them I do respect the way they handle things. Do you think that it would be putting too much on these individuals to refer duplicate questions and terms not entered into glossaries to them? Though I wouldn't agree with making a glossary entry mandatory, though it is desirable - although, again, if one uses the ProZ.com Term search then old questions come up, whether or not the particular terms are in the glossary.
Just some food for thought. Your suggestion is interesting, I'm just wondering how it would be implemented, and also I would want the end result to be to get more people involved, to show respect to askers and answerers, and not to exclude people who are either newcomers or just not in that "core group" that seems to exist in each language pair (many of whom seem to think that their "group" owns that language pair, and KudoZ in general).
Thanks.:)
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A Hayes (X)
Australien
Local time: 10:24
| WARNiNG: This is slighly off-topic | Feb 2, 2006 |
While I agree with most comments by Kim and Rita re the optimisation of the KOG, I also find some of the things gad said very true -
...people jump on someone who SEEMS TO post a duplicate questions by posting a snippy little remark about it already being in the glossary...
...certain individuals who must think that they own KudoZ...
...the egoes of certain individuals who may already have too much power on KudoZ...
Even if a question IS already in the Glossary, there is no need to be rude and patronising, like someone was in an English-Spanish question yesterday.
The reason why I wanted to mention this is that Ive often read patronising or pedantic comments by the same member, whos been around for a while and seems to be a respected member of the Spanish community (or the 'core group' I should say)
In my opinion, tolerance, respect for others and good manners should come first.
...that "core group" that seems to exist in each language pair (many of whom seem to think that their "group" owns that language pair, and KudoZ in general)...
Yesterdays exchange was a prime example of this as well:
This member, who is not a moderator (not that that would make a difference) posts an ask the asker note saying, WE suggest you remove this question...
Who is WE?
[Edited at 2006-02-02 03:10]
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 17:24
Englisch > Französisch
+ ...
| Begs the question :-) | Feb 2, 2006 |
A Hayes wrote:
WE suggest you remove this question...
Who is WE?
[Edited at 2006-02-02 03:10]
Juan Carlos comes to mind...
| | | | Fred Neild (X) 
Englisch > Spanisch
+ ...
| Rotation system | Feb 2, 2006 |
gad wrote:
Rita, this is an interesting idea. My only concern is that such a "panel" might serve to further exclude newcomers/infrequent users of KudoZ, and might also feed into the egoes of certain individuals who may already have too much power on KudoZ (remember that answerers with over 500 points can edit other people's questions, and quite a few people do so without respecting the asker's actual question). I really would like the KudoZ system to be more welcoming to newcomers - granted, it's good to continuously improve upon the quality of the questions and the system overall, but let's just make sure that every new thing that we implement does not further exclude newcomers or others who ask occasional questions to/on KudoZ.
Fully agree with this gad.
Hi Rita,
I believe you are making an interesting suggestion and something we would all like, but what gad says and A Hayes confirms is true. Maybe if there was some kind of rotation system every three months so nobody is overloaded and nobody feels extremely 'special'. I don't know if results would be so uniform, and if there are so many moderators, but I believe in this way much more people could collaborate (maybe not only moderators) and this temp group could always leave the terms they are not sure of. Maybe moderators shouldn't be a part of this task force, I am sure they already have enough work.
Fred
| | | | RHELLER
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 18:24
Französisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | proz is a very welcoming site IMO | Feb 2, 2006 |
To gad, (My only concern is that such a "panel" might serve to further exclude newcomers/infrequent users of KudoZ):"
I am puzzled as to "WE" myself. Members come and go constantly on proz. Many are members in name only and do not participate, which is fine. I can't say I know what you mean by "core".
In my language pair, Fr-Eng, I would estimate that less than half of the currently-active Kudoz participants were members for more than a year.
I am surpri... See more To gad, (My only concern is that such a "panel" might serve to further exclude newcomers/infrequent users of KudoZ):"
I am puzzled as to "WE" myself. Members come and go constantly on proz. Many are members in name only and do not participate, which is fine. I can't say I know what you mean by "core".
In my language pair, Fr-Eng, I would estimate that less than half of the currently-active Kudoz participants were members for more than a year.
I am surprised at the thought that anything on proz might exclude newbies.
Proz is a very welcoming site and the number of forums proves that. People express themselves often and easily. Most of it is user-friendly, but it does take some time to get used to - because there are so many features available.
My concern is that the newbies should not jump in and start asking questions before having read the kudoz rules; in the same way one would not enter a tennis match without knowing the rules. If you feel that understanding the current structure is asking too much, then I beg to disagree with you. That is a recipe for failure wherever one may go.
To A Hayes (Very off-topic): There is no way to eliminate rude and/or patronizing people on the web, here or elsewhere. You can't legislate good manners. ▲ Collapse
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Gina W
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 20:24
Mitglied (2003)
Französisch > Englisch
| There is a "core group", and those individuals show little tolerance and do not welcome newcomers | Feb 2, 2006 |
Rita Heller wrote:
Members come and go constantly on proz. Many are members in name only and do not participate, which is fine. I can't say I know what you mean by "core".
I have actually heard this from others who participate in KudoZ less frequently, that there is DEFINITELY a "core group", particularly in the French to English language pair (though apparently it happens in other language pairs too, as confirmed here), who serve to browbeat anyone who dares not to post a perfect question, whether the person is new or not. There are TONS of people who have tried KudoZ and gotten scared off because of the utter nastiness - I've personally been told this by people that I barely know, and by others who I know well, most of whom had no idea that I am sick and tired of the nastiness and inappropriately unprofessional attitude of that "core group". Maybe you have not been the victim of it, or maybe you have not noticed it, but since that idea didn't even originate from me and it's just something I'm posting that in my experience OTHERS have told me, then that leads me to believe that there definitely is one.
Regarding what you said about newcomers should not jump in without knowing everything first, I respectfully disagree - some tolerance can and definitely SHOULD be shown. Newcomers are still human beings and most of the time fellow language professionals (how does a snippy person know that the person s/he is being rude to is not an agency? I would NEVER give a rude post-er two words worth of translation work, if they can't be professional then I don't see why they are here in an online community.) Some people have absolutely NO tolerance. Sure, newcomers should read, and sure, it'd be nice if they followed every single rule exactly. But to me, it is FAR worse and FAR more unprofessional and inappropriate when someone posts a snippy remark to another person, as opposed to someone who makes honest mistakes in posting questions and just getting to know the system.
To the others who posted in agreement: thank you very much for your support. It is unfortunate that this would be enough of a fact for you to agree, but since it is I appreciate you posting on this.:)
[Edited at 2006-02-02 16:57]
| | | | mstkwasa
Local time: 01:24
Englisch > Japanisch
+ ...
gad wrote:
But to me, it is FAR worse and FAR more unprofessional and inappropriate when someone posts a snippy remark to another person, as opposed to someone who makes honest mistakes in posting questions and just getting to know the system.
| | | | RHELLER
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 18:24
Französisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | may I respectfully suggest that you start another forum | Feb 2, 2006 |
I started this forum to discuss glossary entries - not how rude people can be on kudoz.
It is well known that there is a lot of childish behavior in kudoz - it has been discussed over and over again in the forums.
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 17:24
Englisch > Französisch
+ ...
| Part and parcel | Feb 3, 2006 |
Rita
With all due respect, I think gad's observations belong on this thread, they're part and parcel of the issue imo.
I for one did not know about the term search function until recently, and I am convinced that a lot of prozians -newbies and seasoned alike- are not aware of all the resources the site has to offer. A kind, *informative* note in the Ask the asker box is probably all they -all we- need. Snide comments will only drive people away.
Sarah
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RHELLER
Vereinigte Staaten
Local time: 18:24
Französisch > Englisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | what is the issue? | Feb 3, 2006 |
[quote]sarahl wrote:
I think gad's observations belong on this thread, they're part and parcel of the issue imo.
and what is the issue in your opinion?
| | | | Fred Neild (X)
Englisch > Spanisch
+ ...
| not checking the glossary? | Feb 3, 2006 |
Rita Heller wrote:
and what is the issue in your opinion?
Sorry, but your thread is quite vague. Maybe you could clarify it for us.
Fred
| | | | sarahl (X)
Local time: 17:24
Englisch > Französisch
+ ...
Rita Heller wrote:
Everyday, a number of questions are asked that are already in the glossary.
This, plus the title of your thread. Unless I am mistaken?
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