| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4] | New system from a translation buyer's perspective Initiator des Themas: a2ztranslate
|
|---|
| price versus experience | Apr 7, 2010 |
apk12 wrote:
Andrej wrote:
a2ztranslate wrote: ... An experienced translator can actually set a lower rate than a new translator...
So you mean that I have worked hard, gathered experience and invested my money and time in education, books etc. with the only aim to give you a big discount as I became a really experienced translator in GE-RU pair now? I am terrible sorry, but I thought that I did all these things to earn more. Your approach is the strangest one I have ever seen.
sorry, a2ztranslate, but:
exactly.
but what's even more striking is that this comes together with "So we end up shutting out new translators if they are not able to accept lower priced projects to get experience." -so in fact this is talking about the ability to 'offer' low rates in order to let beginning experienced professionals accept them because they are experienced beginners needing experience while working on their professional speed low rates gaining experience by providing their experience.
[Edited at 2010-04-05 12:56 GMT]
I have read through the whole topic, and starting to think that perhaps we haven't understood the topic starter. As an agency owner myself, working only with freelance translators, I do understand his point, but I view it as follows:
Perhaps what he means is that he wants to give freelance translators new on the market (=less experienced translators) a chance to work for him, BUT in order for him to be interesting from a business point of view they can only work for him at lower rates than he usually pays his regular translators SINCE translations of newbies always take more time to revise than the work of veteran translators.
Example: we have several highly experienced veteran English and German translators boasting years and years of experience who work for approx. 0.10 euro cents per word.
We receive dozens of CVs every day of newcomers on the market trying to expand their network HOWEVER with only a couple of years of hardly any experience they charge 0.09 euro cents per word. WHO do you think we prefer to work with? So only if the newbie is prepared to initially work for a lower rate will it be doable for us to work with him/her.
But that's only the purchase side of the product/services, we as an agency decide on our pricing scheme, not our clients. However in difficult economic times, clients have more to say, because there's just too many translation (internet) agencies and freelance translators out there!
| | | | pcovs
Dänemark
Local time: 06:28
Englisch > Dänisch
| I think we understand correctly, I'm afraid | Apr 7, 2010 |
Rifraf wrote:
I have read through the whole topic, and starting to think that perhaps we haven't understood the topic starter. As an agency owner myself, working only with freelance translators, I do understand his point, but I view it as follows:
Perhaps what he means is that he wants to give freelance translators new on the market (=less experienced translators) a chance to work for him, BUT in order for him to be interesting from a business point of view they can only work for him at lower rates than he usually pays his regular translators SINCE translations of newbies always take more time to revise than the work of veteran translators.
a2z goes on to say that an experienced translator should actually be able to charge less than the newcomer because of the increased speed and experience in expert fields etc., so I think we did understand correctly.
About this point, a2z completely leaves out the freelance translator's right to take home his/her own ROI. a2z, understandably thinks only of his/her agency's own ROI.
A translator does invest much time and a lot of money in education, dictionaries, specialist handbooks, all kinds of required software etc., and as he/she becomes more experienced (delivers higher quality jobs), he/she can begin to cash in the ROI.
I do see your point about paying newcomers a little less, because it may take a little longer to review their translations, but can you honestly tell me that you, from the outset, are offering the reviewer of such a translation a higher review rate than usual?
If you do, I must say you are one of a kind, and I would like to work with you
The thing about paying newcomers a little less than experienced translators has two sides, though. Newcomers too have stuff to pay (food, electricity etc.), but because of their low speed, inexperience and low pay, they would have to work longer hours to complete enough jobs to make things work out. This could very well lead to lower quality jobs in itself. That's what usually happens for experienced translators if they take on too much in too little time, so why should this be any different for the inexperienced translators?
Also, lower rates make it more difficult to be able to buy all the reference material and software needed to improve the quality of ones translations, so I would say that low pay is what keeps inexperienced translators on a lower quality level of the market.
This is just food for thought.
[Edited at 2010-04-07 08:10 GMT]
| | | | | paying newcomers less | Apr 7, 2010 |
PCovs wrote:
I do see your point about paying newcomers a little less, because it may take a little longer to review their translations, but can you honestly tell me that you, from the outset, are offering the reviewer of such a translation a higher review rate than usual?
[Edited at 2010-04-07 08:10 GMT]
Unfortunately in most cases it doesn't take a LITTLE less time, it takes MUCH longer!
We review all translations inhouse and can therefore keep track of the review time needed, and our reviewers definately need much more time reviewing translations of beginners or less experienced translators than is needed for reviewing the work of pro's.
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X) 
Frankreich
Local time: 06:28
Französisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| Oops-a-daisy... | Apr 7, 2010 |
Rifraf wrote:
I have read through the whole topic, and starting to think that perhaps we haven't understood the topic starter. As an agency owner myself, working only with freelance translators, I do understand his point, but I view it as follows:
Perhaps what he means is that he wants to give freelance translators new on the market (=less experienced translators) a chance to work for him, BUT in order for him to be interesting from a business point of view they can only work for him at lower rates than he usually pays his regular translators SINCE translations of newbies always take more time to revise than the work of veteran translators.
because you must be one of the very few (in my admittedly limited experience) agencies who will pay revisions on a time rather than one a word basis...
ETA: I did not see your post about revising in-house, so this comment does not really apply...
[Edited at 2010-04-07 09:09 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
| paying time, not amount of words | Apr 7, 2010 |
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
Rifraf wrote:
I have read through the whole topic, and starting to think that perhaps we haven't understood the topic starter. As an agency owner myself, working only with freelance translators, I do understand his point, but I view it as follows:
Perhaps what he means is that he wants to give freelance translators new on the market (=less experienced translators) a chance to work for him, BUT in order for him to be interesting from a business point of view they can only work for him at lower rates than he usually pays his regular translators SINCE translations of newbies always take more time to revise than the work of veteran translators.
because you must be one of the very few (in my admittedly limited experience) agencies who will pay revisions on a time rather than one a word basis...
ETA: I did not see your post about revising in-house, so this comment does not really apply... [Edited at 2010-04-07 09:09 GMT]
 well most of the time we do pay translators who do revisions for us for the time they spent on reviewing a badly written English text for example, but I know our agency is an exception to the "rule".
| | | | Calliope Sofianopoulos (X)
Australien
Local time: 14:28
Griechisch > Englisch
+ ...
Jared wrote:
Andrej wrote:
Well, there are a lot of other opportunities to find customers outside of Proz.com. But as we are talking about Proz.com now, I can say that about 90 % of my customers I got here contacted me directly through my profile page. Sapienti sat.
Thanks Andrej. Let me point out that this is the way most jobs are passed at ProZ.com, not through job postings. Of course, as you mention, a good profile (and membership) are at the heart of making that system work.
Regards,
Jared
Only problem is, there is a job posting/underbidding/reverse auctioning system that requires translators to underbid each other and that already sets low rates on this site. Therefore, if the going rate on the job board for EN>GR is $0.03 per word, the newbie translator who knows no better is quite happy, even feeling honoured, to receive a job offer via their profile at $0.04!
The job board sets rates (and trends in the global translation market, unfortunately)! The rates are set by low-paying agencies on the largest translation portal on the internet. The agencies directly benefit from this equation. Why are translators, then, required to pay membership fees in order to bid?
I know that we've all been waiting for a change for many years, Jared. I also know that this is the first time in the history of proz.com that the whole bidding system is under scrutiny. Many of us paid the membership fees for years because the site gave us multiple advantages. Many of us stopped paying membership fees when we realised that we were paying very dearly for these advantages, in all the more decreasing translation rates and censorship. I, personally, stopped paying my own membership fees on principle, when I was banned from posting on the forums, after suggesting that the Greek translation of this website should not be crowdsourced, but that translators needed to be paid to complete such a huge project, just as they pay proz.com membership fees for its services, in this post http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom:_translator_coop/71636-prozcom_now_available_in_greek_and_serbian.html#699628
I suspect that many of us will be deleting our profiles from proz.com altogether if changes are not made to accommodate our needs soon. The translation industry amounts to many billions of dollars today. The translators with experience know that and refuse to participate in an underbidding system already. And, suffice to say, without translators, there is no translation industry, there are no translation agencies and there is no proz.com. All of you feed on our work, whether directly or indirectly. The problem is that many translators have not realised this. Now is the time to inform them.
Scrap the bidding system altogether or else stop requesting membership fees from translators. This system is only of any value to the low-paying agencies, not to us. They can pay the overrated membership fees - we want value for our money!
| | | | | The statement on administrative action is incorrect, and should not be made in the forums | Apr 7, 2010 |
Hello Calliope,
This statement on being "banned from posting on the forums" is factually incorrect. Let me also point out site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/14#14 , which regulates the discussion of administrative actions in the forums (they should be channeled via the support system).
Regards,
Jared
| | | | | Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » New system from a translation buyer's perspective | Protemos translation business management system |
|---|
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 |
|---|
Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
