Sep 28, 2006 08:25
17 yrs ago
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German term

eine extrem menschliche Existenzbewältigung

German to English Other Tourism & Travel
This is from a brief description of Botswana for visitors (that's all I'm able to say!).

In Botsuana durchstreifen nomadisierende Buschmänner durch die lebensfeindlichen Weiten der Kalahari und demonstrieren **eine extrem menschliche Existenzbewältigung.**
What are they trying to say? Is it about maintaining their dignity etc.? For me, something's not quite right about "extrem menschliche".
TIA for any help!

Discussion

Francis Lee (X) (asker) Oct 6, 2006:
Thanks for ALL the suggestions. I wish I could give points to everyone. Sadly - and this is as frustrating for me as it might be for you - I have been informed (after asking twice) that will be no Aufklärung as to what the author actually meant. The lines of communication at the company involved are very long, and there's nothing more I can do ;-( But my English-speaking contact did say "In the case of a travel prospect, though, the goal is to make the destination attractive to the reader".
Francis Lee (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2006:
I ended up with "... in the Kalahari, demonstrating extraordinary resilience as they lead their traditional way of life in this hostile environment" BUT added a note about the German being unclear/nonsensical etc. As my text will go through various departments (the customer is very, very big), however, it may be some time before I get any feedback. Thanks to all! Heck, even young Master Wenzel made a positive contribution! (i.e. below, not above)
muitoprazer (X) Sep 28, 2006:
if I could make a speedy return to Nicoles earlier comment (absolutely no pun intended)about extrem menschlich being nonsense,what about these two words conveying extreme kindness,sympathy,humanity ?
Francis Lee (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2006:
I have indeed since e-mailed the client for clarification - if only to make them realise what a load of tosh it is they've written. I probably won't get an answer until after my deadline in a couple of hours, so whatver I write will be accompanied by a note (not the only one with this job, I can assure you). Thanks for all the input!
Lancashireman Sep 28, 2006:
Good morning, Francis. We have all the context we need here. How embarrassing if you were to do as Stephen suggests!
CMJ_Trans (X) Sep 28, 2006:
couldn't we agree it's not a typo? there are one or two answers, including your own ideas, that should give you enough material here, no?
Stephen Sadie Sep 28, 2006:
@ francis...you demand the impossible, translators agreeing? Maybe you could at least clarify the typo option with your client, somewhat simplifying "our" task
Francis Lee (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2006:
Looks like the jury's gonna be out for a while yet on this one. Can you people please at least vaguely agree on something? ;-)
muitoprazer (X) Sep 28, 2006:
to Nicole-obviously the first,but if they are not careful,they often form part of the 2nd option !
Nicole Schnell Sep 28, 2006:
Re your note: simply think about the psychological profile of Botswana/Kalahari travelers. Adventure seekers or swimming pool w/ dinner served at 7?
muitoprazer (X) Sep 28, 2006:
agree with Francis Lee's comments above,use of Bew.. implies that mastery of such an inhospitable terrain is arduous and difficult.Also agree with Nicole re extrem.
Francis Lee (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2006:
OK, everyone, just queue up to hammer a nail into my self-constructed context-crucifix ;-) It's at least reassuring to know that natives also find "extrem menschlich" a bit bewildering
Nicole Schnell Sep 28, 2006:
Sorry, there is no such thing as "extrem menschlich". Plain silly.
silvia glatzhofer Sep 28, 2006:
... and yes, the little context is sthg. the two of us should discuss ;-)))
silvia glatzhofer Sep 28, 2006:
agree with you, Francis, it must have to do with dignity despite the "lebensfeindliche Umstände".
Francis Lee (X) (asker) Sep 28, 2006:
Perhaps in the sense of leading a tough but extremely dignified existence/life (in harsh conditions)?
Stephen Sadie Sep 28, 2006:
very humane...sounds horribly worded

Proposed translations

+4
48 mins
Selected

(demontrating) an extraordinary capacity to survive in such (extreme) conditions

left out the menschlich because I think it means "for human beings to survive in such conditions" but that makes for a heavy sentence

an extrordinary capacity for human survival in such conditions

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-09-28 09:39:04 GMT)
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resilience is good -

demonstrating - typo
Note from asker:
I originally had exactly what you suggest or, alternatively, "extraordinary resilience"
Peer comment(s):

agree muitoprazer (X) : resilience even better than capacity.
35 mins
agree Ken Cox : see comment to Andrew's answer
39 mins
agree Martin Wenzel : yep
1 hr
agree Ingeborg Gowans (X)
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
8 mins

an extreme/deep rooted human survival instinct...

given the extremely hostile nature of the environment.
Something went wrong...
+3
13 mins

typo: extremely inhumane

Honestly, this looks like a typo to me and I agree with you: this doesn't sound right.

This is only a hunch, let's see what colleagues are going to say.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2006-09-28 08:42:28 GMT)
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extrem UNmenschliche Existenzbewältigung
Note from asker:
Wouldn't that be a bit patronizing/insulting to say "unmenschlich"? This is a travel guide,after all. And surely the "demonstrieren" implies something positive, oder?
Peer comment(s):

agree Stephen Sadie : yes, exactly what I tried to say above, it makes NO sense
21 mins
Thank you, Stephen. Talking about the Kalahari...
agree writeaway
26 mins
Thanks, writeaway!
neutral Lancashireman : inhumane: lacking and reflecting lack of pity or compassion http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=inhumane
1 hr
Exactly. Please read about the conditions in the Kalahari. Thanks, Andrew
disagree silvia glatzhofer : no, no typo - the people remain "menschlich" despite "unmenschliche" conditions
1 hr
So - this disagree can only be based on either scientific insight or personal taste. Hm...
neutral CMJ_Trans (X) : hi Nicole - Silvia just disagrees with you - surely she has the right not to agree with you - yours is a gut feeling, so is hers. Sorry but the 'disagree' function is badly misunderstood
2 hrs
Absolutely no problem. Silvia is a pro-translator - I can tell by the way she is posting and answering questions. My point is that "extrem menschlich" is no proper German and doesn't makes sense except in slang. Thanks, CMJ_Trans! :-)
agree Anne Schulz : What about a typo "eine extreme menschliche Existenzbewältigung" -- in the sense that some colleagues here, implicitly or explicitly, suggested: They are human beings who have to maintain their existence under extreme circumstances.
2 hrs
Sounds extremely good. Thank you, Anne!
agree seehand : ich sehe es auch wie Anne, muss "extreme" sein
6 hrs
Danke, seehand!
Something went wrong...
+6
27 mins

an ability to eke out an existence at the limits of human endurance

They demonstrate an ability to eke out an existence at the limits of human endurance.
(Oh a bushman's lot is not a happy one - happy one.)
Note from asker:
Armorel has managed to express what I failed to.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Stephen Sadie : only when constabulary duty's to be done!//I am not the only peer who agrees with nicole's answer but it is Francis' decision..I love G&S
7 mins
Good morning, Stephen. There are several possible approaches to interpreting this sentence, the least likely of which is to suggest that the author accidentally omitted the prefix 'un-'.
agree Armorel Young : I would say "in extreme conditions" but I'm sure this is the intended meaning (although poorly expressed by the writer) - it is "menschliche Existenzbewältigung" in an "extrem" situation.
24 mins
Thanks, Armorel. 'In extreme conditions' is good. It makes sense to rearrange the sentence slightly as you suggest.
agree Ken Cox : at least one possible interpretation of this convoluted construction -- I'm thinking 'demonstrate the strength of the human survival instinct (which enables people to adapt to and master even the most severe conditions)'
59 mins
agree silvia glatzhofer : yes, and with Armorel
1 hr
agree Frosty : That which is sometimes referred to as an "Überlebens-Künstler"?
2 hrs
agree muitoprazer (X) : yes,very poetic/documentary headlineish,but correct.
2 hrs
agree Trans-Marie : Menschlich könnte eventuell auch “mit einfachen Mitteln” heißen.//Yes. Also agree w your comment on humane. Humane = human, human = menschlich (gibt Grenzbereiche). Humane/inhumane conditions Sind wohl eher im Gefängnis anzutreffen als in der Wüste.
3 hrs
Good thinking. 'Mit einfachen Mitteln' could then be expressed as 'basic': "eking out an extremely basic form of human existence".
Something went wrong...
29 mins

dignity

and master their lives in the hostile, inhumane environment with a great deal of human dignity

oder freier:

Despite the inhumane conditions of the dessert, they preserve their human values and dignity.
Something went wrong...
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