| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | 又一则广告 Thread poster: Zhoudan
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Zhoudan 
Local time: 03:52
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老袁，你客气了。我念研究生时选过语言学课程，但都是非常基础的课。我个人认为，语言层面的广告研究，恐怕还是语用学的范畴吧（如有看官觉得此言不妥，请指出，非常感谢）。你说的literature review，我想只要是研究性的论文（不仅仅是语言学领域），恐怕都不能避免。我记得当年写毕业论文（翻译领域），就读了许多文献，开头就写前人在相关领域的研究成果，然后说... See more 老袁，你客气了。我念研究生时选过语言学课程，但都是非常基础的课。我个人认为，语言层面的广告研究，恐怕还是语用学的范畴吧（如有看官觉得此言不妥，请指出，非常感谢）。你说的literature review，我想只要是研究性的论文（不仅仅是语言学领域），恐怕都不能避免。我记得当年写毕业论文（翻译领域），就读了许多文献，开头就写前人在相关领域的研究成果，然后说明自己的研究方法跟前人有何不同，有哪些改进等等。文末再列出长长的参考文献。
jyuan_us wrote:
周丹,你肯定选过研究生层次的语言学课程, 有一个问题,如果对不理想的广告进行研究,是属于语用学还是语义学研究?怎样着手？另外，语言学研究需要不需要LITERATURE REVIEW？我指的是正式的ORIGINAL研究论文。我原来的行业即公共卫生研究，论文的一定篇幅必须是LITERATURE REVIEW，而且要求引用一定数量的作者，否则，不管你的研究做得多好，也不算数。这种惯常做法背后的RATIONALE就是，如果你没引用别人的东西，你的研究或者会被认为是胡思乱想或凭空捏造，或者你的DATA和研究结果都会被认为没有任何意义， 因为它没有和前人的研究进行比较，也就谈不上对这个领域的贡献。我不知道做语言学研究是否有必须把研究课题和LITERATURE REVIEW结合起来的这个规定。希望得到你的指教。
[Edited at 2011-06-02 18:08 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-06-02 18:19 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Zhoudan
Local time: 03:52
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER | pragmatics v. semantics | Jun 3, 2011 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics
Pragmatics is a subfield of linguistics which studies the ways in which context contributes to meaning. Pragmatics encompasses speech act theory, conversational implicature, talk in interaction and other approaches to language behavior in philosophy, sociology, and linguistics.[1] It studies how the transmission of meaning depends not only on the lin... See more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics
Pragmatics is a subfield of linguistics which studies the ways in which context contributes to meaning. Pragmatics encompasses speech act theory, conversational implicature, talk in interaction and other approaches to language behavior in philosophy, sociology, and linguistics.[1] It studies how the transmission of meaning depends not only on the linguistic knowledge (e.g. grammar, lexicon etc.) of the speaker and listener, but also on the context of the utterance, knowledge about the status of those involved, the inferred intent of the speaker, and so on.[2] In this respect, pragmatics explains how language users are able to overcome apparent ambiguity, since meaning relies on the manner, place, time etc. of an utterance.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics
Semantics (from Greek sēmantiká, neuter plural of sēmantikós)[1][2] is the study of meaning. It focuses on the relation between signifiers, such as words, phrases, signs and symbols, and what they stand for, their denotata. ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
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广告中还有另一句十分蹩脚的中文。女主角高喊道：
“我要做最好的自己！”
真叫人哭笑不得。 ( + )
不过话说回来，这类中不中、西不西的 “新颖措辞” 如今国内想来比比皆是、见怪不怪了。 再多一个时髦说法 大概也不在乎。 说不定还 是多多益善呢！
[Edited at 2011-06-03 15:02 GMT]
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 15:52
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
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Zhoudan wrote: 老袁，你客气了。我念研究生时选过语言学课程，但都是非常基础的课。我个人认为，语言层面的广告研究，恐怕还是语用学的范畴吧（如有看官觉得此言不妥，请指出，非常感谢）。你说的literature review，我想只要是研究性的论文（不仅仅是语言学领域），恐怕都不能避免。我记得当年写毕业论文（翻译领域），就读了许多文献，开头就写前人在相关领域的研究成果，然后说明自己的研究方法跟前人有何不同，有哪些改进等等。文末再列出长长的参考文献。 jyuan_us wrote:
周丹,你肯定选过研究生层次的语言学课程, 有一个问题,如果对不理想的广告进行研究,是属于语用学还是语义学研究?怎样着手？另外，语言学研究需要不需要LITERATURE REVIEW？我指的是正式的ORIGINAL研究论文。我原来的行业即公共卫生研究，论文的一定篇幅必须是LITERATURE REVIEW，而且要求引用一定数量的作者，否则，不管你的研究做得多好，也不算数。这种惯常做法背后的RATIONALE就是，如果你没引用别人的东西，你的研究或者会被认为是胡思乱想或凭空捏造，或者你的DATA和研究结果都会被认为没有任何意义， 因为它没有和前人的研究进行比较，也就谈不上对这个领域的贡献。我不知道做语言学研究是否有必须把研究课题和LITERATURE REVIEW结合起来的这个规定。希望得到你的指教。
[Edited at 2011-06-02 18:08 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-06-02 18:19 GMT]
根据你下面提供的英文解释,做语用学研究应该是一件很好玩的事情.语义学研究文字本身的CONTEXT.语用学研究交流者双方的SOCIAL CONTEXT, 后者的范围太广了,发挥的余地比较大.
看两个例子:
1。卖手表的公司广告原文中有Designer Watches, 被译成了设计师手表，我初次看到，第一反应是这款手表是设计师们（不仅含有手表设计师，也包括其他行业的设计师）爱戴的手表。研究这种错误应该属于语义学范畴，因为译者没有理解原文的意思。
2。把某句英文廣告語譯為“克劳馥的选择”：这种译法就会让一些读者问﹕克劳馥是谁？她選不選擇跟我有什麼關係﹖译者明白原文的意思了，他就假设读者也跟他有相同的知识层次，因而就字對字地譯出來了﹐但很多讀者卻不明白他在說什麼。研究這個錯誤應該就属于语用学范畴了。
66號公路那个，可用语用学进行研究，没有IPHONE那个可以用语义学进行研究。Steve 下文指出的那个“做最好的自己”也是属于语义学研究范畴。
在一篇论文是否允许把这两种研究方法都用上？要是能的话，写起来就比较方便了。
[Edited at 2011-06-03 13:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-06-03 17:52 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
English to Chinese
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wherestip wrote: 广告中还有另一句十分蹩脚的中文。女主角高喊道： “我要做最好的自己！” 真叫人哭笑不得。 ( + ) 不过话说回来，这类中不中、西不西的 “新颖措辞” 如今国内想来比比皆是、见怪不怪了。 再多一个时髦说法 大概也不在乎。 说不定还 是多多益善呢！ [Edited at 2011-06-03 15:02 GMT]
我在网上大致查了一下，发现“我要做最好的自己”这种说法在中国确实很流行。不知那些人想表达的究竟是 "I want to be the best of myself”，还是 "I will do my best”？看来，前者可能性较大。李开复还以“做最好的自己”为书名出了一本书。说不定还就是李开复开的先河。这种“时髦说法”只要有名人一用，哪怕是不伦不类，也照样会越发泛滥。
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/227389031.html
http://vip.book.sina.com.cn/book/index_39665.html
我认为，如果想表达 "to be the best of myself”，则译为“完善自己”甚至“超越自我”较妥。
[Edited at 2011-06-03 16:05 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
+ ...
Yueyin,
中文如今沦落到如此地步，简直令人心寒。 最奇怪的是，在没有任何外来势力强迫或占领的情况下，许多日常汇话演变成了一种变相的"殖民(地)"性语言。 譬如说， “我要做最好的自己”。 这种完全不符合中文语法或习惯的句子，不但没有什么人提出异议，反而泛滥流行。
Anyway, that's just my observation from afar. I could very well be wrong in my assessment and criticism. Yet when all is said and done, I'm just glad that personally I have nothing to do with the insanity.
~*~*~*~*~*
I agree with you. Either “完善自己” or “超越自我” would be a very good choice of words. The English equivalent could have been, "I want to be the best that I can be", "I want to live up to my (greatest) potential", or something along those lines. It reminds me of the famous jingle from the old U.S. Army recruitment commercials: "Be, all that you can be. You can do it/(Find your future), in the Army".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2uPoMaCgJg
Yeah, come to think of it, the original could have been, "I want to be all that I can be". 
~*~*~*~*~*
http://money.howstuffworks.com/commercial-jingle.htm
http://articles.cnn.com/2001-01-10/us/new.army_1_army-louis-caldera-recruits-jingle?_s=PM:US
[Edited at 2011-06-04 00:55 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
English to Chinese
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wherestip wrote:
Yueyin,
中文如今沦落到如此地步，简直令人心寒。 最奇怪的是，在没有任何外来势力强迫或占领的情况下，许多日常汇话演变成了一种变相的"殖民(地)"性语言。 譬如说， “我要做最好的自己”。 这种完全不符合中文语法或习惯的句子，不但没有什么人提出异议，反而泛滥流行。
Steve,
估计 “我要做最好的自己” 就是从 "I want to be the best of myself” 翻译过来的。蹩脚的翻译一旦从名人嘴里说出来之后，一些没有独立思考精神的人也就人云亦云了。还有些人甚至以外国腔或港台腔为荣。李开复、莫文蔚（Karen Mok）都是留过洋的，中英文应该都不错，不知他们为什么还要这样说？
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote:
Steve,
估计 “我要做最好的自己” 就是从 "I want to be the best of myself” 翻译过来的。蹩脚的翻译一旦从名人嘴里说出来之后，一些没有独立思考精神的人也就人云亦云了。还有些人甚至以外国腔或港台腔为荣。李开复、莫文蔚（Karen Mok）都是留过洋的，中英文应该都不错，不知他们为什么还要这样说？
Yueyin,
完全同意你说的。
翻译本应是抓住原话的精神实质，转换成自己的语言加以表达。这些人可好，一步一作揖， 把自己的民族语言给糟蹋得不成样子。
也罢了。 俗话说：“天要下雨， 娘要嫁人”。 提倡使用这种似是而非的中文的支持者肯定大有人在，说起来跟积极推广 "Pidgin English" 的人并没有什么区别。
[Edited at 2011-06-04 17:00 GMT]
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ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
English to Chinese
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wherestip wrote:
翻译本应是抓住原话的精神实质，转换成自己的语言加以表达。
Steve,
我完全同意你的意见。"I want to be the best of myself” 这句话的实质就是你上面所说的 "I want to be the best that I can be", "I want to live up to my (greatest) potential", or something along those lines。但是，不少人就只是从字面上去理解，死板地进行翻译，于是就成了 “我要做最好的自己” 这种“中不中、西不西”的“东西”，确实跟 "Pidgin English" 没有什么两样。
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/60481546.html?an=0&si=2
那句“如果你没有iphone，那么你就真的没有iphone” 也没有反映原话的精神实质，从而成了十分死板的翻译。
下面这篇文章的作者吴婧也许是位小学生，也可能是位小学教师，但我觉得，她的水平比该校提出以“做最好的自己”为校训的校长还高。
http://www.masjrxx.com/ReadNews.asp?NewsID=602
学校提出“做最好的自己”的校训表明了一种更高的人生和事业的标杆，意味着每一个人要尽可能在自己的工作中达到自己力所能及的最好程度。
我认为所谓的“做最好的自己”，强调的是“自己和自己比，不断地超越自己”。
[Edited at 2011-06-04 15:35 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
English to Chinese
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wherestip wrote: 广告没有给主要的目标对象(target audience) 提供足够的历史背景及文化背景，所以说效果不是很理想的。 也许得先放一下 Yueyin 提供的那段视频才能使大多数人真正体会到 Route 66 究竟象征着什么 ... 纵观广告全体，追求、向往自由与美好的主题还是相当突出的。但恰如 Zhoudan 所说，在 Route 66 上开车远行原要起到一种双关联想及画龙点睛的作用，中国大多观众不经解释很可能是不易理解的。
Steve,
凯迪拉克的这段广告，看来确实如你所说是专门针对中国市场而拍摄的广告。不过，美国有些网站也转载了这段广告。有些人还发表评论说，把自由只是诠释为行动自由是片面的。
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
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| tugging at the heartstrings | Jun 4, 2011 |
ysun wrote:
Steve,
凯迪拉克的这段广告，看来确实如你所说是专门针对中国市场而拍摄的广告。不过，美国有些网站也转载了这段广告。有些人还发表评论说，把自由只是诠释为行动自由是片面的。
对，我也这样认为。 广告有意地使用 66 号公路为象征，不光专指行动上的自由，也更加泛指其它方面的美好理想与自由。
但正如你所说，点得再明白些，那些马列主义老太太们又可能要站出来说话了。
Anyway, it's a commercial after all. IMO, GM did a pretty good job at coming up with a commercial that resonates with the current predominant sentiment of the Chinese populace.
[Edited at 2011-06-05 15:39 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
English to Chinese
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| Route 66 is the path to the American Dream | Jun 4, 2011 |
wherestip wrote:
Selling the American Dream to the Chinese Consumer
[Edited at 2011-06-02 22:02 GMT]
wherestip wrote: 广告有意地使用 66 号公路为象征，不光专指行动上的自由，也更加泛指其它方面的美好理想与自由。 但正如你所说，点得再明白些，那些马列主义老太太们又可能要站出来说话了。
Route 66 就象征着对自由与幸福的向往，还象征着开拓与奋斗的精神！
6/4/2011
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
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| the pioneering spirit | Jun 4, 2011 |
ysun wrote:
Route 66 就象征着对自由与幸福的向往，还象征着开拓与奋斗的精神！
6/4/2011
这话说得很对。 The American Dream 可不是白来的， 是要经过艰苦的开拓与奋斗才能换来的。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 14:52
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| 如果你想知道什么是自由，最好住在66号公路旁 :-D | Jun 4, 2011 |
wherestip wrote:
BTW, I've actually never been on Route 66. :-\
Steve,
I’ve not only driven on Route 66, but also lived on Route 66. When we moved from New Hampshire to California nearly 20 years ago, we lived on Huntington Drive in Arcadia, which is part of the historic Route 66. The major reason we chose Arcadia is that it has one of the best high schools in this country although Arcadia is an expensive place to live. Arcadia High School was ranked 3rd in California for quite a long period of time. Looking back to the past, I still think that our decision to choose Arcadia was very wise.
Best Place to Raise Your Kids: California
Arcadia
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/11/1117_best_places_to_raise_kids/6.htm
Arcadia, located about 20 miles from Los Angeles, is the state's best place to raise kids for the second consecutive year because of its low crime and excellent schools. The population of Arcadia includes a number of peacocks that hang out in the neighborhood near the Los Angeles County Arboretum & Botanical Garden.
As mentioned above, we could often see peacocks hanging out in the neighborhood near the Los Angeles County Arboretum & Botanical Garden which is not far from where we used to live. So, Arcadia is also called the city of peacocks. Arcadia is the most beautiful city we have ever lived in. The Los Angeles County Park is just across the street from where we used to live：
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ZFN_gH9Qod5mIaUbmEy91A?select=G2zS0oT409tIq03ZFzOwlw
[Edited at 2011-06-04 22:47 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 14:52
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote: wherestip wrote:
BTW, I've actually never been on Route 66. :-\
Steve, I’ve not only driven on Route 66, but also lived on Route 66. When we moved from New Hampshire to California nearly 20 years ago, we lived on Huntington Drive in Arcadia, which is part of the historic Route 66. The major reason we chose Arcadia is that it has one of the best high schools in this country although Arcadia is an expensive place to live. Arcadia High School was ranked 3rd in California for quite a long period of time. Looking back to the past, I still think that our decision to choose Arcadia was very wise.
Indeed. It was a great decision you made for the kids' education.
I've been to Pasadena once, but only for a short stay. I just looked it up, it's located right next to Arcadia. The thing that impressed me the most was the cleanliness of the city sidewalks. I thought the area was beautiful. 
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