Björn Vrooman Sep 28, 2015:

@Remy Know that one all too well, no apology necessary :)

Am just happy to help. Who knows, you might get a Zeugnis next time with the "abgewählt" but without the "Kursstufe" part and you'll know exactly why.

Have a nice day!

Remy van Tol (asker) Sep 28, 2015:

Thank you Björn for you extensive explanation. Very much appreciated. My apologies for not responding earlier. I had to make the deadline.

Björn Vrooman Sep 28, 2015:

continued Ergo:
A) "Vor Eintritt in die Kursstufe" is misleading - not every federal state or school will have (had) courses start right after discontinued subjects were chosen.
So, do not translate this part unless you want to have British staff thinking all Germans discontinue certain subjects before courses start. Not true, rather a coincidence.

2) Any distinction between major/minor or main/subsidiary is for naught. You'll still have "rather unimportant" subjects. The important five (I think it's only one Profilfach and one Neigungsfach, as well as one required language in addition to Maths and German - forgive me, it's been a while) will be part of the written examination. The others won't count for that much.

Don't have American staff thinking you "majored" in physics with 2 hours per week spent on it.

Thus, I'm sticking to what I said earlier: State after which grade these subjects were discontinued - nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, I have no idea how you can discontinue two languages, but that shows you how the education system differs nationally. One more reason, why I wouldn't try to mirror it in any way.

Björn Vrooman Sep 28, 2015:

@Lancashireman and Remy Agreed. With my admittedly long explanation, I only wanted to point out that your reference to "target readership" is an important one - not only because of the words chosen.

In short:

WHO? Student in Baden-Wurttemberg up to 13th grade with language focus (3 languages). Learns at "normal school," which doesn't specialize in arts, sports, or the like.

WHEN? Courses start in 12th grade. Choice of discontinuing subjects is made after 10th grade.

WHAT? Three choices: Discontinue
1) sports or arts? 2) Latin, English, or French? 3) Biology, Chemistry, or Physics?

All other subjects will continue, several with 4 hours/week, several with 2 hours/week.

Remy van Tol (asker) Sep 28, 2015:

David, edit your answer first "Kursstufe" to close the question and give you the points.

Lancashireman Sep 28, 2015:

Very interesting, Björn Just sayin' that major/minor (US) is main/subsidiary in the UK. The key terminology is simply not transferable across systems. The phrasing chosen therefore needs to be culturally neutral.

Björn Vrooman Sep 28, 2015:

continued Around a decade ago, Baden-Wurttemberg introduced core classes, Maths and German, as well as "Profilfächer" (subjects based on whether you rather wanted to follow through with languages or the natural sciences). In addition, you were still required to take "minor" subjects with fewer hours per week. You could only choose to discontinue a few subjects, depending on what focus your school had (for example, usually, either get rid off sports or arts, unless your school had a special focus on either of them).

Regarding the first two core classes, everyone had the same number of hours per week; regarding your "Profilfächer," you had the same number of hours as for core classes for subjects pertaining to your "Profil." All other classes had a reduced number of hours per week, but were still(!) there.

In some other federal states, you could choose anything and everything as a "major" or "minor," even Maths and German, and it influenced the number of hours per week you'd have to sit in those classes.

Hence, a major/minor distinction won't get you anywhere, but neither will a direct comparison to any UK/US System, because it's simply too "fluid."

Work with numbers here, not Kursstufe.

Björn Vrooman Sep 27, 2015:

@Lancashireman It wouldn't work under any circumstances. Here is why:

The German sentence is somewhat misleading because the choice of which subjects to discontinue in school is offered after the 10th grade (or Year 11). It is the time when most students either have to pass an exam or automatically obtain their "Realschulabschluss" (Mittlere Bildungsreife - some federal states won't get you anything here, but that's a different matter).

After that, students will have two or three grades left to finally obtain their "Abitur."

A) Some federal states start Kursstufe from 11th grade (Year 12), so directly after the grade to obtain the Mittlere Bildungsreife, e.g., Rhineland Palatinate.

B) Some don't and have one year of "normal" classes before the course system starts, e.g. Baden-Wurttemberg.

C) If the school is one of those with only a 12th and no 13th grade, I think they would also start with the 11th grade (no experiences with that, however).

Because the education system varies from state to state, state authorities hardly care about what other states are doing, i.e., if they say "vor Eintritt in die Kursstufe," they're pointing to THEIR federal system.

Lancashireman Sep 27, 2015:

Target readership: absolutely vital in Education terminology, e.g. 'majoring' means nothing to a UK reader.

Daniel Arnold (X) Sep 27, 2015:

@Remy, wenn Du uns verrätst für welches Zielland Du übersetzt (UK, USA, AUS....) können wir vielleicht präziser helfen. Kursst. ist meiner Meinung nach Kursstufe.

Daniel Arnold (X) Sep 27, 2015:

With Björn. Maybe rephrase and explain that it's about the last two (G8) or three (G9) years (senior years) in the German Gymnasium.

Björn Vrooman Sep 27, 2015:

Kursst. = Kursstufe Remy, the German system usually goes like this:

Gymnasium (secondary school/middle or high school) up till 12th or 13th grade

Either from 11th or 12th grade you no longer have a firm class setup; you'll be put into courses with students of the same grade. Before the course system begins in 11th or 12th grade, you can choose a few subjects you won't have to take as courses.

So Kursstufe may be best be described by saying "Subjects discontinued before starting [xx] grade." or similar

In Britain, that'd be Year 12 or 13, actually (though they have no year 14). See also: http://www.422abs.com/rafc/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Rw8YrHU...

Note how courses start here in Year 9.

Same goes for the US: http://www.fulbright.org.uk/study-in-the-usa/school-study/us...

Different education system, different rules. By saying something about when "courses" are introduced, you basically leave people puzzled as to what you mean or have them make wrong assumptions.

David Hollywood Sep 27, 2015:

OK thanks Remy and I now feel more confident that it could be "Kursstufe"

Remy van Tol (asker) Sep 27, 2015:

David: basically a table with subjects ("English", "French", "Biology") and evaluation ("Good", "Very good")

David Hollywood Sep 27, 2015:

or "Kursstufe"

David Hollywood Sep 27, 2015:

maybe "Kursstatistik" but just guessing

David Hollywood Sep 27, 2015:

Could you give us what precedes and follows?