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Umlauf UPS
Jun 27, 2017 14:57
6 yrs ago
Deutsch term

dem Ochsen gemacht

Deutsch > Englisch Geistes- und Sozialwissenschaften Geschichte
Taken from a German village history, concerning parish accounts during the time of the Napoleonic occupation: "Ferner dem Schuhmacher Gabel von hier vor einen Schuh dem Ochsen gemacht und bekommt davor 36 Kr." I have found A LOT of typographical errors in this book, and I'm wondering if this is another one. I can make out that the local shoemaker received 36 kreutzers "for a shoe made to the ox"????? First, I'm wondering why a shoemaker would be making a single shoe, and, second, does the dative form indicate it was FOR an ox or made OUT OF an ox? Looks like nonsense to me, but wondering if anyone else sees a way to elicit some sense out of this...

Discussion

gangels (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Maybe instead of vor = für, and a bit later davor = dafür would make 'some' sense
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Hi Johanna Let's do the twist!
Johanna Timm, PhD Jun 27, 2017:
"einen Schuh dem Ochsen gemacht" Ochsenschuh= ein neues Hufeisen für den Ochsen?
maybe the shoemaker had an oxen and this oxen received a new "oxen shoe" ; that would explain the fact that it's only one "shoe". But in that case it's not clear who receives the 36 kreuzer...
Timoshka (asker) Jun 27, 2017:
@ Thomas Pfann & Ramey Rieger Thank you both for your input! I truly appreciate your insights!
Timoshka (asker) Jun 27, 2017:
@ Ramey Rieger Never thought about that! But you are correct. And given that this entry dates from 1815 (the end of the Napoleonic Wars), there may well have been many individuals (ex-soldiers) around with a missing leg.
Thomas Pfann Jun 27, 2017:
Got it Ah yes, now I understand your interpretation, Timoshka, and agree with it ("Furthermore, to the shoemaker Gabel from here for a shoe made from ox [leather] and he receives therefor 36 kreutzers"). Could well make sense.
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Maybe the customer only needed one shoe - which would be plausible in those days.
Timoshka (asker) Jun 27, 2017:
@ Ramey Rieger The preceding records don't pay particular attention to high costs. It is just a list of parish expenditures, i.e. to whom and for what payments were made.
Timoshka (asker) Jun 27, 2017:
@ Thomas Pfann I don't think it suggests something was made for the shoemaker. I think it suggests something (36 kreutzers) was paid TO the shoemaker, based on other entries from the same records, e.g. "Dem Friedr. Jacob Gabel auf Bingen um Puder und Pomade zu kaufen, 8 Gulden." I'm sure the "vor" is simply "für," which occurs with frequency in these old records. So, I interpret it as "Furthermore, to the shoemaker Gabel from here for a shoe made from ox [leather] and he receives therefor 36 kreutzers." Still not 100% certain, of course, but it seems like the most plausible explanation at this point...
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
für eine Schuh aus dem Ochsen gemacht would be in keeping with the other missing words in the text.
The author seems astonished that the shoemaker gets 36 Kr for ONE shoe made of ox leather - does the preceding text also deal wiht (high) costs?
Thomas Pfann Jun 27, 2017:
Not sure But that interpretation requires a lot more than just a dropped word and throws up more questions than answers:<br><br>- „dem Schuhmacher gemacht“ suggests that something was made for the shoemaker<br>-„vor einen Schuh“ - what could the „vor“ mean or stand for? (maybe „für einen Schuh“?)
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Yes, that would make sense.
Timoshka (asker) Jun 27, 2017:
@ Thomas Pfann & Ramey Rieger Unfortunately, I only have the published book with no access to the original handwritten sources. It does seem that each entry mentions the name of the person receiving payment, the amount of payment, and for what. Could it be that 36 kreutzers were paid to the shoemaker Gabel "vor einen Schuh AUS dem Ochsen gemacht"? (Perhaps there is a dropped word involved.) Just a guess...
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Skinned/tanned the ox for the leather to make the shoe? Now that would make sense!
Ramey Rieger (X) Jun 27, 2017:
Hi Timoshka I understand the author or someone else worked (dem Ochsen gemacht) so the shoemaker could make the shoe, and received 36 Kr.
Thomas Pfann Jun 27, 2017:
No answer - just a bit of brainstorming Wasn't it someone else who made something FOR the Schuhmacher for which the Schuhmacher paid 36 Kr? Could the 'Ochse' possibly be a tool used by a shoemaker? (I only a little online research and found nothing to suggest so, but it might be worth exploring further.)

I guess you are dealing with a transcript (OCR?) of the original handwriting (hence the many typographical errors). Do you have access to a copy of the original as well?
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