| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | CPN members still associated to the bikini shop selling translations at 0.05€ Thread poster: Neil Ashby
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Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
There is an "outsourcer" out there who I cannot name using the CPN badge next to the guaranteed rate for the translator of 0.05€ / word!
Hi all, this is old news (9 months old) but I wanted to bring it to the fore once again, so anyone who missed it first time around might become aware of the matter. Our association, through Proz, with the API / CPN is still connected to outsourcers offering 0.05€/word for translators, creating the impression that this is an acceptable ra... See more There is an "outsourcer" out there who I cannot name using the CPN badge next to the guaranteed rate for the translator of 0.05€ / word!
Hi all, this is old news (9 months old) but I wanted to bring it to the fore once again, so anyone who missed it first time around might become aware of the matter. Our association, through Proz, with the API / CPN is still connected to outsourcers offering 0.05€/word for translators, creating the impression that this is an acceptable rate for professionals to work at. Thanks for furthering our cause Proz.com!!!!
Proz has apparently sold access to this database of information (why else would they do it, if not for money?) and they are not concerned that it is used to advocate prices less than half those of the EU and ATA recommended rates for translators living in the euro zone.
CPN Professional Guidelines from Proz (cough):
Professionals should, "set their rates at levels that allow them to deliver, on an ongoing basis, the quality levels that their clients require" - vague huh? If the client wants poor quality then it is perfectly professional, in the eyes of Proz, to deliver poor quality - it would have to be at these prices endorsed by Proz.
Below is a summary of my original forum post in Dec 2013:
(http://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/262051-prozcom_outsourcing_cpn_members_at_006€_w_staff_prozcom_is_not_an_outsourcer_but_a_platform.html)
Did you know that: http://www.proz.com/faq/163672#163672
"An interface ("API" or Application programming interface) is being developed which allows clients to search for and contact ProZ.com members for paid work from their own translation platforms. In essence, this interface represents a potential additional channel of client contact for ProZ.com members. The interface is currently being tested with a limited group of volunteers."
And so the agency (bikini shop and estate agent are its main businesses) mentioned above are using this "API" to advertise CPN services at 0.06€ / word (customer's end price) for all language pairs....if you are a CPN member you may appear in the database of this agency, it depends on your rate and visibility settings, http://www.proz.com/?sp=settings_tpx_api#! - good luck finding that without this link!.
Membership renewal - not on your life.
[Edited at 2014-10-15 13:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jean Lachaud 
United States
Local time: 18:26
English to French
+ ...
Do the words "free market" ring a bell???
Neil Ashby wrote:
outsourcers offering 0.05€/word for translators, creating the impression that this is an acceptable rate for professionals to work at. Thanks for furthering our cause Proz.com!!!!
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Loud and clear ;@) | Sep 15, 2014 |
Sure, but some members might not be aware that they need to 'unsubscribe' from this list offering their potential services at such a rate. The agreement is not the most publicised, nor is the setting easy to find.
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 06:26
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Just a problem with reading ability or intelligence | Sep 15, 2014 |
JL01 wrote: Do the words "free market" ring a bell??? Neil Ashby wrote:
outsourcers offering 0.05€/word for translators, creating the impression that this is an acceptable rate for professionals to work at. Thanks for furthering our cause Proz.com!!!!
It's just some idiot who saw the letters API on both ProZ and some random outsourcer's site and assumed that they are the same thing.
[Edited at 2014-09-15 18:25 GMT]
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Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Okay Lincoln, I can see that you are stillllllll having trouble grasping this. | Sep 15, 2014 |
Lincoln, you continue to insult rather than discuss. Why are you looking for a 'fight'? What is your interest in this outsourcer that sounds like "dog shit"?
The outsourcer uses the Proz API to entice clients at the rate of €0.06/word, claiming to buy translations from CPN members at just €0.05/word - less than half the rate recommended by the EU for Eurozone dwellers. The outsourcer has a great big fat juicy CPN badge proudly displayed on their website (of which I believe Proz... See more Lincoln, you continue to insult rather than discuss. Why are you looking for a 'fight'? What is your interest in this outsourcer that sounds like "dog shit"?
The outsourcer uses the Proz API to entice clients at the rate of €0.06/word, claiming to buy translations from CPN members at just €0.05/word - less than half the rate recommended by the EU for Eurozone dwellers. The outsourcer has a great big fat juicy CPN badge proudly displayed on their website (of which I believe Proz are 100% aware because they have a deal with them). Not exactly a "random outsourcer" nor "assuming that they mean the same thing" - it IS the Proz API on their website, I know from past experience you find this part difficult to understand, but please try for all our sakes.
To anyone else who may be interested:
My point is that, for those who have higher rate standards than €0.05/word (for whatever reasons) and who do not wish to appear on this CPN list given to and promoted by a third party, action is necessary to remove yourselves from said list, see http://www.proz.com/?sp=settings_tpx_api#! . ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 06:26
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Sounds like stealth marketing for said outsourcer, frankly | Sep 15, 2014 |
The outsourcer uses the Proz API to entice clients at the rate of €0.06/word
The premise of the first sentence is completely wrong, so I don't know what there is about your post that is even worth discussing when it's entirely based on a false premise.
There's the D(redacted) API, and then there's the ProZ API, which are completely different and unrelated. Austria and Australia are different countries. I don't know how I can put this any clearer.
[Edited at 2014-09-15 19:10 GMT]
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | SITE STAFF why is the badge still on the outsourcers page? | Sep 15, 2014 |
Lincoln Hui wrote:
It's just some idiot who saw the letters API on both ProZ and some random outsourcer's site and assumed that they are the same thing.
[Edited at 2014-09-15 18:25 GMT]
Maybe the Site Moderator's explanation will leave things clearer for you:
"This is not a new feature, but an extension of the ProZ.com directory 30 Dec 2013
Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
I think I am usually good about reading ProZ announcements and keeping up to date with new developments, but I don't remember seeing anything about this, let alone the new setting in our profile.
I am wondering how I missed this. Could you give us a forum link where this feature was introduced and explained?
Thanks
Katalin
There was no forum announcement made, Katalin, since the API is not a new site feature, but a sort of extension of the directory and its search functions. Hence, the messages you receive from clients using the API should not be different from the ones sent to you through the directory.
So, again, if you receive job offers with rates that fall below your minimum, please submit a support request so that appropriate action can be taken. ProZ.com does not set rates, but investigates any potential form of abuse of the directory system and other site tools and features.
Finally, regarding the question on the Certified PRO Network logo, it is only available to members of the network. The outsourcer in question has already been contacted and asked to edit their website to make it clear that they are not associated with ProZ.com or the Certified PRO Network in any way, but only using ProZ.com's API.
Lucia Leszinsky, Site Staff"
(http://www.proz.com/forum/certified_pro_network/262048-prozcom_outsourcing_cpn_members_staff_prozcom_is_not_an_outsourcer_but_a_platform-page2.html#2245651)
This bit is great,
"The outsourcer in question has already been contacted and asked to edit their website to make it clear that they are not associated with ProZ.com or the Certified PRO Network in any way, but only using ProZ.com's API."
and nine months on here is the webpage currently: (http://www.dixit.com/en/) with the words "Online translation platform certified Proz.com Pro Network" next to the CPN badge.
Now Lucia please can you explain why, 9 months later, the badge is still on their webpage???????????????
If they refuse to remove it shouldn't you deny them access to ProZ.com's API?
Who else have ProZ given/sold access to the API to?
How can we find out this information?
Your answers are greatly appreciated as always.
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Have you visited the web in question, Lincoln? | Sep 15, 2014 |
You can see quite plainly the ProZ and CPN badges.
Your misreading of the situation is fully exposed by the comments of Site Staff back in December. I quote:
"The outsourcer in question has already been contacted and asked to edit their website to make it clear that they are not associated with ProZ.com or the Certified PRO Network in any way, but only using ProZ.com's API.
Lucia Leszinsky, Site Staff"
... See more You can see quite plainly the ProZ and CPN badges.
Your misreading of the situation is fully exposed by the comments of Site Staff back in December. I quote:
"The outsourcer in question has already been contacted and asked to edit their website to make it clear that they are not associated with ProZ.com or the Certified PRO Network in any way, but only using ProZ.com's API.
Lucia Leszinsky, Site Staff"
(http://www.proz.com/forum/certified_pro_network/262048-prozcom_outsourcing_cpn_members_staff_prozcom_is_not_an_outsourcer_but_a_platform-page2.html#2245651)
"ONLY USING PROZ.COM's API......." is it clear enough as to who the API belongs?
The last time I waste keystrokes on you my friend. ;@)
[Edited at 2014-09-15 19:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 23:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Real translators are communicators. | Sep 15, 2014 |
Lincoln Hui wrote:
I don't know how I can put this any clearer.
[Edited at 2014-09-15 19:10 GMT]
Why the ongoing animosity?
[Edited at 2014-09-16 10:24 GMT]
| | | | Angela Dickson (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:26
French to English
+ ...
I don't understand why there's so much animosity above.
Neil, does the site you link to use the Proz API to put their clients in touch with "Certified Pro" translators? I am not willing to register with them to test whether Certified Pro members come up in a search.
If this is the case, I am very glad I let my membership lapse and am no longer in the "Certified Pro" network. I have no wish to be associated with outsourcers like this.
| | | | | This still around? | Sep 16, 2014 |
I really thought the way ProZ got utterly ridiculed for this in the professional groups on LinkedIn and Facebook would serve them as a wake-up call. Boy, was I wrong.
Certainly looking forward to the reaction of the site staff. Or will this thread mysteriously disappear as well? 
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
From what others have ascertained through their own endeavour (like you I was unwilling to register) and from information dredged out of ProZ:
The list includes all CPN members who have neither set their minimum rates above 0.05€ nor intentionally opted out of ProZ's API (almost impossible without the link provided above).
The latter isn't easy to do if you don't know that it exists - the API (and its sale to questionable businesses, or "partnerships" as I'm sure ProZ... See more From what others have ascertained through their own endeavour (like you I was unwilling to register) and from information dredged out of ProZ:
The list includes all CPN members who have neither set their minimum rates above 0.05€ nor intentionally opted out of ProZ's API (almost impossible without the link provided above).
The latter isn't easy to do if you don't know that it exists - the API (and its sale to questionable businesses, or "partnerships" as I'm sure ProZ will call them) wasn't announced because apparently it wasn't a new feature, just a rehash of existing directories. However, personally I would like to be informed when a list in which I feature is sold on to third parties.... common business decency.
ProZ claimed in December that they had not given the 'outsourcer' permission to use their logos and requested that they remove them. Nine months later the logos are still there..... do ProZ care in the least about the wishes, concerns and reputations of their paying members - the answer is a definite no!
Like you Angela, I shall let my membership expire..... I have already removed the CPN badge from my website - I'm paying for something that does more damage than good!!!
The animosity is just on the part of one user who doesn't see the problem with this arrangement and subsequently insults those who do.... there's always one. ▲ Collapse
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Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Me too Michal | Sep 16, 2014 |
Michal Fabian wrote: I really thought the way ProZ got utterly ridiculed for this in the professional groups on LinkedIn and Facebook would serve them as a wake-up call. Boy, was I wrong. Certainly looking forward to the reaction of the site staff. Or will this thread mysteriously disappear as well?
The badge has been on the outsourcers website for over a year, ProZ have had knowledge of it for at least nine months..... their lack of action is appalling but unfortunately not surprising.
Let's see if they actually reply.....
| | | | Neil Ashby
Spain
Local time: 00:26
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Request to Moderator / Site Staff | Sep 16, 2014 |
I have just sent the following questions to the moderator:
"Can you please respond to the very important questions asked in this topic.
Why hasn't ProZ taken any action whatsoever in the last 9 months after one of your staff (Lucia Lezkinsky) informed us they would in December 2013?
Why do ProZ allow the API to be used by an outsourcer that pays at rates of less than half of the EU and ATA recommendations?
Members of the CPN have to promise to always deliver their ... See more I have just sent the following questions to the moderator:
"Can you please respond to the very important questions asked in this topic.
Why hasn't ProZ taken any action whatsoever in the last 9 months after one of your staff (Lucia Lezkinsky) informed us they would in December 2013?
Why do ProZ allow the API to be used by an outsourcer that pays at rates of less than half of the EU and ATA recommendations?
Members of the CPN have to promise to always deliver their best work, to conduct business professionally - how can that be possible at these rates?"
Don't hold your breath - mine won't last for 9 months..... ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » CPN members still associated to the bikini shop selling translations at 0.05€ | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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