| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Misunderstandings, bad communication, supernatural powers and abuse Thread poster: manfredi nadai
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I work since one year for a big multinational company called XXX. Since the beginning I was not happy with the very bad conditions of work: low rates, always urgent deadlines, payment in USD (which supposes to pay two commission for each payment,) totally anonymous way of working I talked on the phone to a PM, after insisting and a messy situation, just once in one year). But had to accept all of this because of the crisis, trying nonetheless not to go below a decent level. But what happened las... See more I work since one year for a big multinational company called XXX. Since the beginning I was not happy with the very bad conditions of work: low rates, always urgent deadlines, payment in USD (which supposes to pay two commission for each payment,) totally anonymous way of working I talked on the phone to a PM, after insisting and a messy situation, just once in one year). But had to accept all of this because of the crisis, trying nonetheless not to go below a decent level. But what happened last week is really too much.
I had done already 10000 words of legal content for a judicial order for the same client, an insurance company, in 3 days, two weeks ago. Last wednesday, around 6 pm my time, I was asked to translate the second affidavit by the same client, 3500 words: I was happy cause I was familiar with the content, had a small glossary ready, etc. As usual they did not call me, and sent me instead several emails. In the first email they mentioned the deadline of friday, 7 am uk time (so I would have a little bit more than a day). Then they warned that the source they sent was a provisional one, as the client would send later a new draft of it. I immediately set my mood and my resources to work for this client, as it usually happens, not wasting time and starting working immediately. Then another email crossed, saying the deadline was Thursday and not friday, which was the next day. I just saw, while translating already, the deadline of 7 (I misread as 7 pm UK time, and I just replied yes I do it).
I just raised a bit the rate, to 380 usd.
I worked till 4 am, then around 8 I was weaken up by somebody calling on behalf of the Pm saying the deadline was already gone by...Half asleep, and confident they were wrong, I started shouting that they were crazy and that the deadline was in the evening, that it was impossible to translate 3500 words in one night, without sleeping. Once I was totally awake, I sent an email saying I had already done more than half, and that I could deliver beginning of the afternoon. Then, it started a real hell. I started receiving many emails from different people each of them saying a different thing. First that they would pay me but I had to deliver immediately what I had done, then saying to stop till next communication, and so on. In the meantime, almost panicking, I kept working, and after they threaten to give the task to other translators, finally at 11h17 AM I delivered, after revising, what I had done, which was 80% of the work (I don't know even how I could do it). But then I had an emotional breakdown, felt so much exploited, that I had to lay on bed all day. When I was feeling better I went through the mails and saw that in fact they had written the (impossible deadline) of 7 AM both on the mail (the second one, as the first one mentioned the deadline of friday) and the PO. I wrote a colder email, taking my responsibility for misreading the deadline, but underlining the context where this misreading took place, which was highly confusing. I proposed to issue a second PO, taking off 1/4 of the original amount, which corresponded to a bit more of was I missed in my translation.
Today, I got the reply: they say they would have paid me still if I had delivered IMMEDIATELY when I was asked, and that as they had to reassign the whole work to other translators they would cancel my PO and pay NOTHING.
A part the lack of human and profession consideration, I think it is very clear the lack of HONESTY: obviously, not even 20 different translators recruited at 10 AM could do the whole job to meet the deadline...they obviously used the totality of my work, and took advantage of my honest admission. I would be grateful for any feedback from other colleagues, and an advise on how they would have reacted in a similar situation.
Thanks
[Edited at 2014-11-24 14:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2014-11-24 18:03 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 09:52
Member (2007)
English
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| My sympathies :( | Nov 24, 2014 |
Dear Manfredi,
I'm afraid you've got yourself enslaved by a company who see you as a machine, one that doesn't need rest but can churn out words 24/7. I'm sorry, but I don't see any future change, except maybe them asking for more work, faster, at lower rates.
There is no longer a crisis (if there was at any time). You've already spent a day not working. My advice would be to spend another few getting yourself sorted out to market your services correctly. You don't need... See more Dear Manfredi,
I'm afraid you've got yourself enslaved by a company who see you as a machine, one that doesn't need rest but can churn out words 24/7. I'm sorry, but I don't see any future change, except maybe them asking for more work, faster, at lower rates.
There is no longer a crisis (if there was at any time). You've already spent a day not working. My advice would be to spend another few getting yourself sorted out to market your services correctly. You don't need to let clients dictate the terms and conditions to you, though of course it always pays to have some flexibility. Remember, others only respect those who respect themselves.
I don't know whether you'll ever get paid for this latest job but I guarantee it will happen again, and soon, if you keep doing this company's bidding.
Sheila ▲ Collapse
| | | | manfredi nadai
Local time: 10:52
French to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
Dear Sheila,
I know that I have to find other clients, but believe me, when you have to survive you are obliged to accept also these conditions. As said, I never wanted to go under the lever of dignity, and most of the proposal I reject them. What happened was an accident due to rush, bad communication, stress etc, and they repeated they are not going to work, as they had to reassign the project to two different translators. I really don't know how two translators did in 2 hours mor... See more Dear Sheila,
I know that I have to find other clients, but believe me, when you have to survive you are obliged to accept also these conditions. As said, I never wanted to go under the lever of dignity, and most of the proposal I reject them. What happened was an accident due to rush, bad communication, stress etc, and they repeated they are not going to work, as they had to reassign the project to two different translators. I really don't know how two translators did in 2 hours more (100%) of what I did in 9 hours (81%), but against bad faith, what can you do? The PM sent me the final text, and of course is slightly different, but I am sure they used my translation and they edited. ▲ Collapse
| | | | manfredi nadai
Local time: 10:52
French to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I would like also to have an advise, on how I could post a kind of negative feedback about this client. This client is an american company working in franchising with other translation companies, and even before knowing them, an english colleague already gave me a very negative feedback on them. I thought on this forum I could mention their name, especially considering the fact I just told the simple facts, and not insulted anybody. But I see it is impossible, or I did not find the right place? ... See more I would like also to have an advise, on how I could post a kind of negative feedback about this client. This client is an american company working in franchising with other translation companies, and even before knowing them, an english colleague already gave me a very negative feedback on them. I thought on this forum I could mention their name, especially considering the fact I just told the simple facts, and not insulted anybody. But I see it is impossible, or I did not find the right place? I would just like to warn other colleagues, and create an awareness about a certain way of working. ▲ Collapse
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| Does this company's name | Nov 24, 2014 |
begin with T?
Congratulations on your skill at writing attention-grabbing headlines, by the way. I defy anyone not to click on this
[Edited at 2014-11-24 18:57 GMT]
| | | | manfredi nadai
Local time: 10:52
French to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes Phil, you got it...thanks for your encouragement, and the comment about my writing skills in English (I am an Italian translator, and don't even know with the level of stress I have today how I can still write in an articulate way)
This company is well known for its very abusive, exploiting practices. No surprise you know them already. I wonder if there is a place on this site, or some other forums where I can at least create an awareness on them!
| | | | | I sympathize too | Nov 24, 2014 |
You could put a post on BlueBoard, but I think you'd be on shaky ground because it was ultimately your mistake in misreading the deadline that caused the problem.
This company tends to have six different people all handling the same job and all working at cross purposes, so I knew immediately who you were talking about. They're too big for their own good, in an industry still consisting mainly of small players offering greater efficiency and flexibility.
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 10:52
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Protect your work | Nov 25, 2014 |
Hi Manfredi,
your description meets that of absoluzte "slave drivers". Unfortunately, they do exist in our industry, though the majority of agencies are very professional.
You stated that you fear they might have used your translation, the 81% you submitted. Although it was your mistake of misreading the deadline (understandable under these circumstances), you still own the copyright of what you have translated until you have been paid for it.
You should se... See more Hi Manfredi,
your description meets that of absoluzte "slave drivers". Unfortunately, they do exist in our industry, though the majority of agencies are very professional.
You stated that you fear they might have used your translation, the 81% you submitted. Although it was your mistake of misreading the deadline (understandable under these circumstances), you still own the copyright of what you have translated until you have been paid for it.
You should send an email to all addresses of that agency that you have to inform them that no portion of your translation may be used.
I agree with Phil that you could make an entry on their Blue Board, though not for non-payment since you didn't / couldn't deliver on time. Yet you can enter their "business" practices and so warn other translators.
Since they offered to pay you at first, then said they cancelled the PO, you are stil enttitled to be paid for the work you delivered.
My 2 cents: stop working for them immediately and find new, "real" clients. Good luck! ▲ Collapse
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| Enough time to complete the work | Nov 25, 2014 |
There are many more experienced translators here, but this is jut my humble opinion.
Never accept any unrealistic deadlines. No matter how good the pay is (3.500 w/day, insurance text with tones of special and subtle terminology, without sleeping, under stress...no way).
You are qualified, gifted, trained, experienced, but once you are under tress and lack sleep, your body fails you. And most likely, you will deliver semi-finished product, with typos, with flaws, with t... See more There are many more experienced translators here, but this is jut my humble opinion.
Never accept any unrealistic deadlines. No matter how good the pay is (3.500 w/day, insurance text with tones of special and subtle terminology, without sleeping, under stress...no way).
You are qualified, gifted, trained, experienced, but once you are under tress and lack sleep, your body fails you. And most likely, you will deliver semi-finished product, with typos, with flaws, with terminological inconsistencies, you name it.
Freelancing is not easy, but if there is one good thing about it, this is definitely the freedom to choose you customers. It takes effort, but it also pays off.
[Edited at 2014-11-25 09:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lesesa Morojele
South Africa
Local time: 10:52
English to Southern Sotho / Sesotho
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| How do you make sure that no portion of your translation may be translated? | Nov 25, 2014 |
Thayenga wrote:
Hi Manfredi,
your description meets that of absoluzte "slave drivers". Unfortunately, they do exist in our industry, though the majority of agencies are very professional.
You stated that you fear they might have used your translation, the 81% you submitted. Although it was your mistake of misreading the deadline (understandable under these circumstances), you still own the copyright of what you have translated until you have been paid for it.
You should send an email to all addresses of that agency that you have to inform them that no portion of your translation may be used.
I agree with Phil that you could make an entry on their Blue Board, though not for non-payment since you didn't / couldn't deliver on time. Yet you can enter their "business" practices and so warn other translators.
Since they offered to pay you at first, then said they cancelled the PO, you are stil enttitled to be paid for the work you delivered.
My 2 cents: stop working for them immediately and find new, "real" clients. Good luck!
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:52
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| There are places you can vent | Nov 25, 2014 |
manfredi nadai wrote:
I would like also to have an advise, on how I could post a kind of negative feedback about this client. This client is an american company working in franchising with other translation companies, and even before knowing them, an english colleague already gave me a very negative feedback on them.
It's a real shame you didn't take your colleague's advice seriously enough to research this company before working for them. Thorough research is a must, IMHO, before accepting any work from anyone.
The place for commenting on a particular outsourcer here on this site is the Blue Board. There's an Unacceptable Translation Rates Naming & Shaming Group on LinkedIn that you could join. I think once you're there you'll find that it's already been said a million times, but don't let that stop you adding your 2 cents. The group is mainly concerned with rates of course, but it covers unacceptable practices too.
BTW, you don't need them to issue a new PO: you can simply send an invoice in which you offer any discount you feel is appropriate. If all the invoicing etc is handled by their own company's interface (which is probably the case), and they refuse to do anything, there's nothing to stop you submitting your invoice to them. They're legally obliged to accept your invoice once they've commissioned work, but I'd send it on paper by registered post if I were you or it will simply get ignored. I'm afraid you're going to find it hard to get paid as they think they're almighty and we're just bugs to be stamped on, but I wish you every success.
| | | | | I believe almost every translator knows this company | Nov 26, 2014 |
There are warnings about this company everywhere: they use terrible tactics, deadlines are always unreasonable, payment is always the lowest possible, and 5-6 people at once all around the globe handle one job.
Once I took a medical report job, that was very urgent just like everything else they ever asked for, I sent it and went to bed since it was already long past midnight. When I woke up, there was a message, they have to take off 10 bucks because there was a redacted number which shou... See more There are warnings about this company everywhere: they use terrible tactics, deadlines are always unreasonable, payment is always the lowest possible, and 5-6 people at once all around the globe handle one job.
Once I took a medical report job, that was very urgent just like everything else they ever asked for, I sent it and went to bed since it was already long past midnight. When I woke up, there was a message, they have to take off 10 bucks because there was a redacted number which shouldn't appear, but it should read [redacted], but since the proofreader had to insert [redacted] and they couldn't reach me??? (obviously not, it was some 3 am), so, unfortunately payment was going to be less. That was the last time I ever accepted any jobs with unreasonable deadlines, it was some 8 years ago.
The truth is these agencies make megabucks. Do you? One thing is clear: you're damaging your health and getting all stressed out for tiny money. It seems you're also accepting not only bad deadlines, but low rates. It's not worth it. Translators somehow should realize that NO SINGLE AGENCY can exist without freelancers. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Any freelancer can live happily all life long not even knowing about any agency.
The answer is very simple: we have to prevent such situations from happening. Do not accept totally impossible deadlines. Do not be fine with ridiculous rates. Do have your own terms and apply them, as well. Whenever some client feels you're desperate they'll ask you not only to translate an entire book overnight, but also accept their other humiliating provisions.
Well, you're a freelancer. You have rights to decline any job which doesn't suit you. I know how bad financial situations can be, etc. This type of earnings will not solve any of your financial problems long term anyway. Working for such agencies has no advantages for you. It's probably time to re-evaluate whether you are fine to continue like that or not. These guys won't change, don't dream about that. They have to pay much less somebody along the road in order their profits would be high and growing. Are you fine with earning nice vacations, luxury apartments, etc. for somebody else? Because that's exactly what you're doing.
I feel very sorry for the bad treatment you had to experience, but I believe you will not consider other "urgent" jobs from these guys. ▲ Collapse
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| Supernatural powers? No. A power game, maybe | Nov 26, 2014 |
Hi Manfredi,
We shouldn't forget another aspect of this power game. The PMs themselves are probably also paid peanuts and are just glorified secretaries with huge workloads and lots of pressure. They have strict orders to place jobs ASAP with the cheapest service provider and probably paid accordingly, and couldn't care less about the human factor or the local time. Their only job satisfaction is probably derived from their imposing job title and from bossing around the last cog in the mac... See more Hi Manfredi,
We shouldn't forget another aspect of this power game. The PMs themselves are probably also paid peanuts and are just glorified secretaries with huge workloads and lots of pressure. They have strict orders to place jobs ASAP with the cheapest service provider and probably paid accordingly, and couldn't care less about the human factor or the local time. Their only job satisfaction is probably derived from their imposing job title and from bossing around the last cog in the machine: the person who actually does the work.
Shouting at them is meaningless. There is nobody to talk to.
Sandra ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Is it professional to complain about this? | Nov 26, 2014 |
In the last few months we saw less forum posts with complaints about mean agencies and more forum posts that were stressing the responsibility of the translator to negociate fair deadlines and rates. Are we returning to the complaining mode now?
In my opinion the agency is not really at fault here. If you make a mistake, you have to take the consequences. Neither would I ever complain about the hardships I suffer after accepting any rush work. Not that I say the agency should be abl... See more In the last few months we saw less forum posts with complaints about mean agencies and more forum posts that were stressing the responsibility of the translator to negociate fair deadlines and rates. Are we returning to the complaining mode now?
In my opinion the agency is not really at fault here. If you make a mistake, you have to take the consequences. Neither would I ever complain about the hardships I suffer after accepting any rush work. Not that I say the agency should be able to get away with everything - obviously they have no right to use your work if they don't pay for it. But they do have the right to expect the work being delivered within the stated deadline and it is your responsibility to make sure you are able to do that - obviously POs, instructions and deadlines have to be checked before starting any work.
I think it is rather unprofessional to complain about any conditions that we, as freelancers, have voluntarily accepted. Just imagine you hire someone to paint your apartment - he says: "I would like to have 500 USD for the job and would need 4 days to finish." You say: "Oh, my budget is only USD 250 and I was hoping to have it done in 2 days." The guy says: "Okay, I can do it for USD 250 in two days." Would you be satisfied if the guy drops paint all over your carpet, excusing himself with the rush he had to work in? Would you think it is okay when the guy starts complaining everywhere that you were exploiting him? I doubt that, because he agreed to your terms, while he was totally free to decline.
When I started out, I did accept some jobs with crazy deadlines and really bad rates and I got burned a few times. But I never, ever complained about any of this. I decided then to accept certain conditions in order to gain experience and establish myself and it worked out well - I gradually raised my rates and have found fair and reliable clients now. I do work for one of the big agencies that people complain a lot about, but I have no complaints about them. Deadlines are negotiable, rates are negotiable and I take only what is acceptable for me. Nobody forces me to accept the rest. If this agency is still trying to place insanely complex and/or large files overnight, it is due to slave translators accepting these conditions.
If you behave like slaves, you will be treated as such. Of course agencies will try to get the best of you for free and some are harder to negociate with than others. If you can't negotiate, don't work as a freelancer, it's as simple as that. They will always try to find one crisis or another to try to drive your rates down - just don't fall for it and keep up your standards.
I really think Proz.com needs a lot more negotiation training - there are so many skilled translators here that seem to have trouble to stand their ground when dealing with agencies. It is utterly important to separate emotions and business - if before accepting any job, we calculate whether it can be done within the negotiated deadline and will earn us enough to be satisfied, a lot of trouble can easily be avoided. ▲ Collapse
| | | | manfredi nadai
Local time: 10:52
French to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks to all (who understood the situation deeply and sympathized with me) | Nov 26, 2014 |
...Thanks to all, folks! The reality is that, whoever had to do with this agency, immediately understood whom I was talking about, and had no problem in sympathizing with me.
Do I have to look for better clients? Never accept slavery conditions? Never go under a certain level of dignity? YES, this is obvious, Mister and Mrs Lapalisse:) Believe me, thank god I did not have to pay my rent with them, and have taken ALWAYS the freedom to respect myself, and never go under a minimum le... See more ...Thanks to all, folks! The reality is that, whoever had to do with this agency, immediately understood whom I was talking about, and had no problem in sympathizing with me.
Do I have to look for better clients? Never accept slavery conditions? Never go under a certain level of dignity? YES, this is obvious, Mister and Mrs Lapalisse:) Believe me, thank god I did not have to pay my rent with them, and have taken ALWAYS the freedom to respect myself, and never go under a minimum level, which is, I negotiated always the rate, and just accepted what was decent according to my standards. But negotiating the deadline, is another matter. And I constantly have worked unders stress. And in this case, the whole context (late hour of the call, different confusing emails crossing and changing the conditions, deadline, even the final text to translate) created the conditions where MY mistake was produced. But it is a funny way to see things, dear Anna Sarah Kramer, to blame on me, and put me exactly on the same level as a big multinational company. Maybe I am not good enough in negotiating or finding new clients, but believe me, I am skilled and good enough, and probably the Italian market of translators is not the most favorable one, and not comparable to the german market. It is always easy to blame on the worker, I dide not mean to victimize myself, but look for (sympathetic) advise, and also for some solidarity and support from colleagues. We are "born" alone (professionally), facing our outsourcer, and our negotiating power in this market is absolutely far from what the word "freelancer" would suggest.
This is why I started this discussion online: first to create awareness, second, to start a discussion on the real possibilities to start thinking of setting a cooperative of translators, an equal and fair place to work, where we could re-appropriate of our work and really dictate our terms and conditions. I would suggest Sarah some good readings about globalization and turbo capitalism, probably you are an excellent translator, but a bit unaware of contemporary issues related to society and economy:)
[Edited at 2014-11-26 12:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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