| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Doesn't anybody realize how lucky we are? Or is it just me? Thread poster: Daniel Frisano
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| Oh those times... | Dec 7, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
On the other hand, trade has grown tremendously and so has the demand for translation!
Dan
That dial-up tone brought back fond memories. Although I had access to broadband internet by the time I took up full-time translation, the first paid translation I did was written by hand on paper.
The market is far larger, but that goes two ways: it is not just demand that has increased, but supply, as well. The vendor pool is not the good old one, with more resources available. There many cheap translators who do low to average quality work. While you can't really afford a cheap lawyer/plumber when you really need their assistance, there are some situations where cheap translation will just do. Sad truth.
The highly specialized and experienced translators I know do make a good or even enviable living.
On the other hand, we shouldn't necessarily aspire to the status of lawyers. Not every lawyer is "filthy rich". Here in my country there are many excellent legal minds who work for money they could earn as unskilled workers.
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Yes. I remember that | Dec 7, 2016 |
Daniel Frisano wrote:
I still remember the old days with dial-up modems, it took forever to do some research and the resources were unbelievably scarce (or rather, they are unbelievably abundant today).
I still remember immersing myself in technical dictionaries at the library and taking tons of written notes, or even physically travelling to the client's facilities to get some reference material.
Hell, I still remember having to TYPE my work and send it to the client by regular mail (yes, there was such a thing).
All considered, doing 1000 words a day was considered acceptable. Maybe not a great day, but acceptable.
Now if you are just a bit organized you can at least quadruple that output, and rates certainly have not gone down. Perhaps they have grown a bit slower than inflation, but come one, in terms of real purchasing power we can make at least three times than we did a generation ago.
Any old timers out there? Or new timers wondering how it was a couple of geological eras ago?
I remember even further back than that, when I was working as an architect for a construction firm in Italy that needed its correspondence and documents translated to/from English. All I had was the redoubtable Marolli Technical Dictionary (one of whose authors happened to be a personal acquaintance - not that he was any help), an ordinary Italian-ENglish dictionary, a writing pad, and a pen. The only typewriters in the office were used by the secretaries, who were also the only people with typing skills.
There was no such thing as a computer of any kind, certainly not a PC; and not even the slightest idea that something called "the Internet" would ever come into existence.
Compared with the previous 2000 years, we now have better tools but I don't think they have made bad translations into good translations.
The main thing that seems to have happened (if we assume Daniel's point of view to be a common one) is that we are expected to produce translations more quickly. There is an assumption that everything has to be done faster and faster. I don't share that assumption. Doing a good job takes time.
I think there should now be a new calendar: B.I. (Before the Internet) and P.I. (Post Internet). 2016 would be about 30 P.I.
[Edited at 2016-12-07 14:37 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:43
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Annamaria Amik wrote:
The highly specialized and experienced translators I know do make a good or even enviable living.
I think this is the case, and they represent the tip, or the upper fifth of a pyramidal structure with low-skilled workers at the bottom consisting the largest and most poorly paid segment.
Dan
| | | | | I like this... | Dec 7, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote:
I think there should now be a new calendar: B.I. (Before the Internet) and P.I. (Post Internet). 2016 would be about 30 P.I.
Nice idea...
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Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 18:43
English to Spanish
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| Low-skilled translators at the bottom? | Dec 7, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Annamaria Amik wrote:
The highly specialized and experienced translators I know do make a good or even enviable living. I think this is the case, and they represent the tip, or the upper fifth of a pyramidal structure with low-skilled workers at the bottom consisting the largest and most poorly paid segment. Dan
I think engaging in sweeping generalizations with unsupported statements is beneath us. Why should we assume that the lowest-paid translator is by default a low-skilled one?
In my long experience, being highly specialized helps in getting better-paid projects but it's no guarantee, in and of itself, of a better-paid professional life. Some specialized translators work in highly-paid industries or organizations, but it's a numbers game: not everybody who is highly specialized and skilled can be employed in those industries and organizations. For instance, how many translators are employed by the UN or the European Union entities? Data is hard to come by in this case (I've tried several websites with no success so far).
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 23:43
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| The pyramid has been evolving | Dec 7, 2016 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Annamaria Amik wrote:
The highly specialized and experienced translators I know do make a good or even enviable living. I think this is the case, and they represent the tip, or the upper fifth of a pyramidal structure with low-skilled workers at the bottom consisting the largest and most poorly paid segment.
That tip of today's pyramid is probably just about equal in size to the entire pyramid of translators back in pre-Internet days. In other words, those who were skilled enough to call themselves translators in those days are nowadays earning a good living, even if they aren't getting any richer. And those who have since retired have been replaced by a similar number of younger professionals who have been determined to succeed. I would imagine the work involved is fairly similar too: documents that really need to be translated, and translated well for some reason or another. Only the process has changed somewhat. Not that much though. I mean, to meet today's deadlines we absolutely have to use various technological aids, but if we had far more time we could do it the old-fashioned way, I'm sure.
The only difference is that today the market has exploded to the point that every business wants to market its products or services to every country, and we want to know about things happening around the world, so absolutely everything has to be translated. Therefore, we have billions more words, translated by millions more translators. Many of those newer translators would be totally lost without GT to do most of the work and references such as Linguee, Word Reference and KudoZ to cover their backs. We just need to learn to draw a line between our home at the top of the pyramid and the base area that only exists due to the Internet.
BTW, I was using a dial-up connection in 2007 when I started translating, but how can you call those "the old days"? When I started working as a computer programmer we had to write our programs on forms for the punch girls. And woe betide anyone who dropped the six-inch deck of cards that resulted! I remember the "bright new future" when the first "terminal" arrived in our office. From that time on we had no fewer than three options for updating our programs: we could send the change (maybe as little as a missing bracket) to the punch room, and wait; go and punch the card(s) ourselves; or add our names to the waiting list for "computer time" (it wasn't "real" time use of course - everything was run in batch mode, overnight), and wait. I think there were about 30-40 translators in that open-plan office, so the excitement quickly died down  . And so it always happens with new technology, in my experience. Yes, it's great, BUT ...
| | | | | That sound.... | Dec 7, 2016 |
Daniel Frisano wrote: Kelly S wrote:
... can still hear the tune of the dial-up!
trrrr ppppiiii trrrr ... aaarghhh
.... brings back old memories of high telephone bills and bad/slow connections, but looking back to memory lane, I prefer it the way it is now.
[Edited at 2016-12-07 16:12 GMT]
| | | | | From an oldie... | Dec 7, 2016 |
A typewriter was the only tool of the trade when I started translating professionally in the late 1970s. I used to write my first draft by hand, then type it up very carefully on a manual typewriter. Those were the days when correcting the slightest mistake seemed like an almost insuperable task: re-typing all over again (before the age of the correction tape and the correcting fluid). Still remember the day I could buy an IBM electric typewriter (a Selectric) with all those special typeballs!!!... See more A typewriter was the only tool of the trade when I started translating professionally in the late 1970s. I used to write my first draft by hand, then type it up very carefully on a manual typewriter. Those were the days when correcting the slightest mistake seemed like an almost insuperable task: re-typing all over again (before the age of the correction tape and the correcting fluid). Still remember the day I could buy an IBM electric typewriter (a Selectric) with all those special typeballs!!!
What a change we “oldies” have witnessed… and enjoyed! ▲ Collapse
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 17:43
German to English
| Lawyers and translators | Dec 7, 2016 |
Annamaria Amik wrote: On the other hand, we shouldn't necessarily aspire to the status of lawyers. Not every lawyer is "filthy rich". Here in my country there are many excellent legal minds who work for money they could earn as unskilled workers.
And in Germany, average annual earnings for lawyers are (only) about EUR 50,000 a year. They have crept up slowly in recent years, but only because there was a hike in the statutory fees paid to lawyers. I don't think very much has changed since 2009, when a very experienced German lawyer told me that about 40% of German lawyers in private practice earned less than EUR 30,000 a year.
Of course there are a few lawyers in Germany who earn several million a year, just as there are lawyers who are basically earning minimum wage. Just like in our own industry.
To respond to the initial post, I certainly agree that we're lucky. We're also massively lucky in that modern technology has made our profession even more portable than it used to be. Provided we can ensure confidentiality at all times, we can work on the move and/or from multiple locations. Actually, thinking about it, we probably have one of the most portable professions in the world today.
Yes, there are certainly some downsides to the trends over the past 20 years or so (I also started with a typewriter and a fax in the late 1980s before moving quickly to a 286 PC, followed in 1991 by a "super-fast" 2400 baud modem), but on balance, I would say that the positive factors outweigh the negative factors to a significant and sustainable extent.
| | | | | No, we're not lucky | Dec 8, 2016 |
I don't think things are better.
Technology has made everything quicker, but why is that a good thing? You translate faster, but are paid less per word.
In the old days, you were more of a craftsman, not a machine operator. And you didn't have CAT forcing you to play with a second-rate team.
OK, so you no longer have the stress of your modem connection going down two hours into an upload, and the Internet is a better library than a paper library.
... See more I don't think things are better.
Technology has made everything quicker, but why is that a good thing? You translate faster, but are paid less per word.
In the old days, you were more of a craftsman, not a machine operator. And you didn't have CAT forcing you to play with a second-rate team.
OK, so you no longer have the stress of your modem connection going down two hours into an upload, and the Internet is a better library than a paper library.
But I'd still take the old days. I was paid and valued much more highly.
Mario Chavez wrote:
I think engaging in sweeping generalizations with unsupported statements is beneath us. Why should we assume that the lowest-paid translator is by default a low-skilled one?
Laws of economics. You charge as much as you dare and migrate to those who pay more. (Unless you're one of the many people here who claim disdain for "monetarising" their output, or are just plain stupid.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | also started at that time | Dec 8, 2016 |
Looking at a different angle:
There is a crop of people who began translation in the modern era, and who get "trained" by agencies who send assignments using CAT tools in a not-so-good way, and emphasize speed. This crop may not know about research, checking all aspects of quality, etc. If you survived translation in the old days then it is likely that you had to learn the priorities, approaches etc. and that stays with you. On top of that you have the advantages of more efficient compu... See more Looking at a different angle:
There is a crop of people who began translation in the modern era, and who get "trained" by agencies who send assignments using CAT tools in a not-so-good way, and emphasize speed. This crop may not know about research, checking all aspects of quality, etc. If you survived translation in the old days then it is likely that you had to learn the priorities, approaches etc. and that stays with you. On top of that you have the advantages of more efficient computers, the Internet etc. You can in fact charge for the level of quality that you provide, and your translation will not be of the aforementioned type. You may still decide to use CATs etc. but that's not the only thing you know how to do.
The modern era has helped improve the quality of my work in many subject fields, because we can get at so much more information which then goes into our work. The Internet and modern programs are not just about speed: they're also about knowledge - information.
When I started it was dial-up and slow modems. I remember downloading one particular file - decided to go grocery shopping. It was still downloading when I came back, and finished downloading after I made dinner. Those are not days I miss. Nor the shiny weird fax paper and bloated slightly blurry paper, or how about the velcro-pull sound of the dot matrix printer and its relative slowness.
I'd say that yes, we are lucky, and I prefer "now" to "then". ▲ Collapse
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| zeitgest bias | Dec 8, 2016 |
I don't think translators or others are any luckier now, because with new means and tools come new tasks/requirements and troubles correspondingly.
What is the use playing Pollyanna's "Glad Game" (always finding something to feel happy--at any situation) or disdaining Jack London's "Medusa-Truth" (denying the harsh and hard reality)? Somewhere in-between, perhaps.
Working with paper sources, handwriting, typing, phoning, dialuping, going mobile and 'modern'--no differen... See more I don't think translators or others are any luckier now, because with new means and tools come new tasks/requirements and troubles correspondingly.
What is the use playing Pollyanna's "Glad Game" (always finding something to feel happy--at any situation) or disdaining Jack London's "Medusa-Truth" (denying the harsh and hard reality)? Somewhere in-between, perhaps.
Working with paper sources, handwriting, typing, phoning, dialuping, going mobile and 'modern'--no difference, only the result matters.
So why feel happy or sad, don't you have much work to do? *Jokingly* ▲ Collapse
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RobinB
United States
Local time: 17:43
German to English
Chris S wrote:
I don't think things are better.
Technology has made everything quicker, but why is that a good thing? You translate faster, but are paid less per word.
Actually, I'm paid three to four times as much per word as I was back in the old dial-up modem days, and I know this is the same for many of my colleagues - certainly those in the premium market segments.
Why do so many people claim that rates are lower now as if it was some sort of self-evident truth?
| | | | | Care to cite specific rates? | Dec 8, 2016 |
RobinB wrote:
Actually, I'm paid three to four times as much per word as I was back in the old dial-up modem days, and I know this is the same for many of my colleagues - certainly those in the premium market segments.
I would think you've enhanced your qualifications substantially over the last 20 to 30 years.
Still, could you please share the specific rates you're talking about?
| | | | Daniel Frisano
Italy
Local time: 00:43
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
RobinB wrote:
Actually, I'm paid three to four times as much per word as I was back in the old dial-up modem days
I'm with you here. Maybe not 3- to 4-fold, but yes a good 2-fold. When Euros were introduced (2002) I remember clearly that my best client paid EUR 0.04 psw.
Before that it must have been even less, except that it seemed a lot because with Italian lire you made literally MILLIONS a month har har.
[Edited at 2016-12-08 17:30 GMT]
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