| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: [1 2] > | FINDING NEW CLIENTS > BREACH OF CONFIDENTIALITY?? Initiator des Themas: Alessio Cappelli
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Alessio Cappelli
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2018)
Chinesisch > Italienisch
+ ...
Good afternoon, everybody!
I've been an Interpreter in the legal field for almost 10 years, but have always worked via agencies.
However, I now would like to find direct clients myself.
I have a very specific question in this regard: if I decide to send an introductory email to random law firms in order to advertise myself, can I list the names of the law firms I've already worked with (via the agencies)? Or would this constitute a breach of confidentialit... See more Good afternoon, everybody!
I've been an Interpreter in the legal field for almost 10 years, but have always worked via agencies.
However, I now would like to find direct clients myself.
I have a very specific question in this regard: if I decide to send an introductory email to random law firms in order to advertise myself, can I list the names of the law firms I've already worked with (via the agencies)? Or would this constitute a breach of confidentiality?
Please note that:
1) I wouldn't make any explicit connection between a certain agency and a certain law firm; it would just be a list of the law firms I've worked with;
2) I wouldn't name any of the clients' clients (i.e. the clients of the law firms who have approached my agency);
I believe it should be okay but just wanted to make sure first.
Nowhere in the contracts I've signed with my agencies is it stated anything specific in this regard; if anything, it is stated I must not disclose any of the clients' names to other language agencies (not to other law firms). In any case, as already stated, no connection would be made between a certain agency and a certain law firm...
Please let me know,
Thank you!
Alessio ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rachel Waddington 
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Niederländisch > Englisch
+ ...
I don't think you can do that - these are your client's clients, not yours. So, it would be dishonest to claim you have worked for them. You actually haven't.
| | | | Alessio Cappelli
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2018)
Chinesisch > Italienisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | KINDLY DISAGREE | Mar 8, 2023 |
Hi Rachel,
Thank you for your reply.
Allow me to kindly disagree...
I have indeed worked for/alongside them, sometimes for months on end; the only detail is that these clients have been "sourced" by my agency (that's what agencies are there for...), but my performances and services are no less valid for that reason.
So, I don't see any dishonesty in saying I've worked for them because, indeed, I have -
I actually went the extra mile in most instances... more than ... See more Hi Rachel,
Thank you for your reply.
Allow me to kindly disagree...
I have indeed worked for/alongside them, sometimes for months on end; the only detail is that these clients have been "sourced" by my agency (that's what agencies are there for...), but my performances and services are no less valid for that reason.
So, I don't see any dishonesty in saying I've worked for them because, indeed, I have -
I actually went the extra mile in most instances... more than any other interpreter would do.
The only conundrum for me is the legal nondisclosure bit...
Please let me know,
Thank you!
Alessio ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Niederlande
Local time: 09:43
Mitglied (2006)
Englisch > Afrikaans
+ ...
| Whom did you invoice? | Mar 8, 2023 |
Alessio Cappelli wrote:
...can I list the names of the law firms I've already worked with (via the agencies)?
If you sent your invoices to those law firms directly, then you may be able to list them (if you have their permission). But if you sent your invoices to the agencies, then the identity of the law firms is part of the agencies' business assets, and you can't mention them to other clients [1].
The one exception to this is if these law firms are truly gigantic and their names are household names (and not only among lawyers), and if it is likely that you had worked only for one or two branches. The bigger and more well-known an end-client, the more morally acceptable it becomes to mention them.
Another exception is if you didn't actually work for a law firm directly, but for a client of a client of theirs, or a third-party representative of a division of that firm. For example, I can mention "Microsoft" in my list of end-clients, because the Microsoft-related work that I did was for a company who works for another company who does work for Microsoft. The further the actual distance between you and a big, well-known firm, the more morally acceptable it becomes to mention them.
[1] "other clients": You may have a point when you say that this would apply only to sharing information with other agencies, and not with people who are not agencies.
Either way, you should think carefully before mentioning a law firm's name if you don't have their permission to mention their name. (Not because they're a law firm, but because they're a client.)
[Edited at 2023-03-08 14:48 GMT]
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| A practical approach | Mar 8, 2023 |
If you've signed something saying you won't, then you shouldn't.
On the other hand, nobody will know or care if you do.
| | | | Alessio Cappelli
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2018)
Chinesisch > Italienisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER | @Samuel Murray | Mar 8, 2023 |
Hi Samuel,
Thank you very much for your kind and detailed reply.
In 100% of the cases, the invoices have been sent to the agencies; invoicing the law firms directly would have meant they were already direct clients, hence no need to do all this... 😜
The structure is very simple: law firm approaches agency as they need an interpreter > agency approaches one of his interpreters > interpreter supplies his services to law firm, but is contractually obligated/invoices the agency.... See more Hi Samuel,
Thank you very much for your kind and detailed reply.
In 100% of the cases, the invoices have been sent to the agencies; invoicing the law firms directly would have meant they were already direct clients, hence no need to do all this... 😜
The structure is very simple: law firm approaches agency as they need an interpreter > agency approaches one of his interpreters > interpreter supplies his services to law firm, but is contractually obligated/invoices the agency.
In all honesty, I don't think there's anything wrong with me mentioning to a new potential direct client (law firm) the list of other law firms I've supplied my services to (albeit via agency).
I would be just stating that I've worked with/for law firm ABC, without mentioning said firm is a client of XYZ agency...
If not, finding new clients would be a much more difficult endeavour, as I've worked for/with 30+ law firms, and putting their names on my CV would bolster my reputation by a great deal...
I would be forced to say something along the lines, "I've worked with 30+ law firms, although for reasons of confidentiality, I'm not at liberty to disclose their names", which I find very unfair...
Please advise,
Thank you!
Alessio ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alessio Cappelli
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2018)
Chinesisch > Italienisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Ice Scream wrote:
If you've signed something saying you won't, then you shouldn't.
On the other hand, nobody will know or care if you do.
Hi Ice Scream,
I understand what you're saying, and I thought that would be the case (i.e. nobody caring if I do it), but just wanted to make sure; in my contracts, there's nothing specifically prohibiting that, though I am not a lawyer, and I am not sure there's some hidden wording/interpretation...
Thank you
Alessio
| | | | Dan Lucas
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2014)
Japanisch > Englisch
| I think this would be counterproductive | Mar 8, 2023 |
Alessio Cappelli wrote:
If not, finding new clients would be a much more difficult endeavour, as I've worked for/with 30+ law firms, and putting their names on my CV would bolster my reputation by a great deal...
I would be forced to say something along the lines, "I've worked with 30+ law firms, although for reasons of confidentiality, I'm not at liberty to disclose their names"
This is the principled approach and it is exactly what you should do. You can say a good deal to give the other person a sense of your experience without giving away any information that will allow them to identify the end client, or the agency.
which I find very unfair...
You may feel it is unfair, but legal and finance firms want to work with suppliers who put confidentiality first. If you break an NDA (or something like it) for marketing purposes, you are likely to frighten away exactly the kind of clients you want - those who care about confidentiality and are willing to pay for it.
Your point about "if anything, it is stated I must not disclose any of the clients' names to other language agencies (not to other law firms)" seems to me to be splitting hairs. Do you think any of your clients (the agencies) would be happy for you to do this? If not, you shouldn't be doing it. It's fine to compete against them, but using the name of end clients whose only connection to you is through the agencies would be a step too far.
Personally, I don't like to see a financial or legal translator listing the names of companies with which they have worked. If they have sought and obtained permission explicitly, fine, but how likely is that? I translate documents originating in some of the largest companies in Japan every week, but they are not my clients: they are my clients' clients, and it was my clients who went out there and won the business, not me. I have signed agreements of my own free will that forbid me from mentioning the names of the end clients, and I have an obligation to keep them.
Regards,
Dan
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Joakim Braun
Schweden
Local time: 09:43
Deutsch > Schwedisch
+ ...
Alessio Cappelli wrote:
(...) if I decide to send an introductory email to random law firms in order to advertise myself, can I list the names of the law firms I've already worked with (via the agencies)?
Absolutely not.
Or would this constitute a breach of confidentiality?
Possibly. Anyway, a good rule of thumb is "always ask permission before using someone as a reference".
I don't think mentioning actual clients by name is that important. You could say "working through agencies, I've provided services to several of the biggest corporate law firms in X, in the domain of XYZ law". They'd understand your confidentiality obligation, and if in other respects you come across as skilled and professional there'd be no reason to doubt what you say (being reticient might even work in your favor).
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and putting their names on my CV would bolster my reputation by a great deal...
Invest as much effort as the agency did and let those clients knock at your door, rather than just claiming they did.
[Edited at 2023-03-08 20:17 GMT]
| | | | Alessio Cappelli
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 08:43
Mitglied (2018)
Chinesisch > Italienisch
+ ...
THEMENSTARTER
Merab Dekano wrote:
Invest as much effort as the agency did and let those clients knock at your door, rather than just claiming they did.
I guess the consensus is against me… 😅
However, just to clarify, never in my previous posts have I stated I would claim those law firms have “come knocking on my door” spontaneously or that I sourced them directly, but only that I’ve worked for them, which is true.
Anyway, thank you all for the insight!
Alessio
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkei
Local time: 11:43
Mitglied
Englisch > Türkisch
| Just go for it | Mar 9, 2023 |
However you choose to write them, your emails will likely not get read by the law firms you've contacted anyway. Either they'll go to the spam folder or they (law firms) will just not bother opening them.
But on the off chance you get a response from any of those firms, just do what you have to do and forget about what you read on these forums.
Major corporations work with translation agencies and don't deal with individual translators/interpreters, but if you manage to land such a ... See more However you choose to write them, your emails will likely not get read by the law firms you've contacted anyway. Either they'll go to the spam folder or they (law firms) will just not bother opening them.
But on the off chance you get a response from any of those firms, just do what you have to do and forget about what you read on these forums.
Major corporations work with translation agencies and don't deal with individual translators/interpreters, but if you manage to land such a client, I'd say it's well worth the risk.
I'd be honest and tell them about the clients I've worked for through agencies (naming the agencies as well) and let them know about the advantages of hiring a dedicated interpreter who'd be directly and diligently working for them and cutting out the middleman. ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki
Türkei
Local time: 11:43
Mitglied
Englisch > Türkisch
| I'd do one better | Mar 9, 2023 |
Instead of writing emails that won't get read, I'd literally go the extra mile and visit those law firms in the UK, and make my case in person. You'd stand a better chance that way.
If I believed my language pair would be in demand for such companies, I'd have no scruples about confidentiality and stuff like that.
Just borrow a suit and tie (make sure you don't turn up in that wifebeater you seem to be wearing in your picture) and tell them about your services (that you worked with c... See more Instead of writing emails that won't get read, I'd literally go the extra mile and visit those law firms in the UK, and make my case in person. You'd stand a better chance that way.
If I believed my language pair would be in demand for such companies, I'd have no scruples about confidentiality and stuff like that.
Just borrow a suit and tie (make sure you don't turn up in that wifebeater you seem to be wearing in your picture) and tell them about your services (that you worked with certain clients though agencies) and leave your business card and resume. I'd really do that if I were you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It is a weird one | Mar 9, 2023 |
I think on a CV or website it doesn't actually help to say "I've worked for companies X, Y and Z". I don't like it when I see it. Chances are, every translator on the planet has done something for one of the world's largest companies at some point. It proves nothing.
Instead, I think it's best to say what work you did for them. Consider my own hilarious bio:
Born and educated in the UK, I've been a writer, editor and translator for the Scandinavian financial sector since 1992.
Longstanding clients include a central bank, the world's largest sovereign wealth fund, a government economic and fiscal research institute, a leading private equity firm, and the research arm of one of the region's biggest banks.
I’ve written annual reports from scratch for a Danish blue chip, mastered the accounting intricacies of one of Norway’s largest insurers, helped sell everything from flat-packed furniture to wild bilberries for companies in Sweden, and translated the financial statements of probably the best brewer in the world.
When not writing, I'm likely to be found racing down Welsh hillsides on a mountain bike.
I think this paints a pretty clear picture of what I do, and for whom, without being overly indiscreet. It wouldn't take a genius to work out who a few of those customers are. If we got as far as a Zoom call then I might be less circumspect. But that's very different plastering it all over your public shop window.
| | | | | Ethics vs law | Mar 9, 2023 |
I guess the consensus is against me… 😅
Not at all. I was thinking in terms of ethical concerns. Now, from the legal point of view, there is nothing your former agency can do, even if you signed that you will not work for their end clients for whatever period. This is pure nonsense, a legal fiction of a kind. Nobody can restrict an individuals’s choice of working with whoever they please or can. This “do not compete” agreements are signed to scare people, but they are null and void ab initio. So, maybe, go ahead! Whay not?
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