| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4] > | Suggestion: how about a 'vote for abuse" button Initiator des Themas: writeaway
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MMUlr 
Deutschland
Local time: 19:02
Englisch > Deutsch
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| Talking about questions to answers ratio ... | Jul 12, 2005 |
pidzej wrote:
... but I do think that 283/0 or 809/1 is taking things a bit too far.
You talk about 809/1 - Just the other day, I had a KudoZ-/e-mail correspondence with a Kudoz "taker" showing ***1412/3*** as his ratio! I myself would be too ashamed to post a question while showing this unbalance - or I would work on my answering part very quickly!!!
Regards
M+M Ulrich
| | | | PAS
Local time: 19:02
Polnisch > Englisch
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| Self-discipline is needed | Jul 13, 2005 |
I recently got four points from the Robot (bless his electronic soul!) for an answer I provided to a 273/0 person, I think in April.
A few days ago that person started asking questions again.
I knew the answers, but I resisted the urge.
I catch myself acting like a grade 2 student: Oh, I know, I know the answer, please let me answer!
If the community refrained itself from answering questions from such people, they would hopefully go away. But there is... See more I recently got four points from the Robot (bless his electronic soul!) for an answer I provided to a 273/0 person, I think in April.
A few days ago that person started asking questions again.
I knew the answers, but I resisted the urge.
I catch myself acting like a grade 2 student: Oh, I know, I know the answer, please let me answer!
If the community refrained itself from answering questions from such people, they would hopefully go away. But there is always someone who will finally hit the answer button and so it continues.
Also, I seem to remember that the rule is a limit on open questions. What's to stop the "asker" from asking questions and immediately closing them after getting an answer?
Otherwise, I am afraid that obligatory paid membership is the only way to go.
Cheers,
Pawel Skalinski ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 19:02
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
| Suggestion: how about a 'vote for abuse" button | Jul 13, 2005 |
PAS wrote:
If the community refrained itself from answering questions from such people
Is it not possible to answer by pointing the asker to a suitable dictionary or reference work?
Marc
| | | | Tony M
Frankreich
Local time: 19:02
Französisch > Englisch
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SITE LOCALIZER | I think this could work | Jul 13, 2005 |
Carl Sennett wrote:
When answering KudoZ I always look at the asker's KudoZ "Q/A" numbers (displayed to the left of the question).
If the asker has answered a good many questions, ideally more than or as many as they have asked, I am likely to offer a suggestion.
I too monitor with interest the Q/A ratios, but I do think they need to be taken with a pinch of salt; for example, when first starting out, I was very unsure of myself, and answered very few questions, at least, until I'd got the hang of it a bit.
But I do think this 'vote for abuser' idea is a workable one; the transparencey is of course vital, and I think the strong point would be that it would in effect 'name-and-shame' regular abusers for all to see, which would in turn perhaps help to deter those kind-hearted souls who are unwittingly undermining the 'self-policing' nature of the present system.
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Stefano Papaleo
Italien
Local time: 19:02
Mitglied (2005)
Englisch > Italienisch
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| help vs. abuse | Jul 13, 2005 |
I think the main point here is the difference between helping people do their job (provided they're qualified for that kind of job) or getting exploited by someone who thinks this is a free translation service. Asking a few questions because you really need help, or are not 100% sure about a term, or you're just starting your career (we were all there, weren't we?) and need some support is something perfectly acceptable and that's what kudoz are for; having your translation done for free piece b... See more I think the main point here is the difference between helping people do their job (provided they're qualified for that kind of job) or getting exploited by someone who thinks this is a free translation service. Asking a few questions because you really need help, or are not 100% sure about a term, or you're just starting your career (we were all there, weren't we?) and need some support is something perfectly acceptable and that's what kudoz are for; having your translation done for free piece by piece simply because you're too lazy to look up in the dictionary or type some keywords on Google or, even worse, because you don't have any idea about the text you're translating is something that must be stopped ASAP.
A limit on the number of questions per day and monitoring the Q/A rate should be the first automatic methods to control this, then of course an abuse button is the cherry on top. Maybe even a black list of the members with the worst Q/A rate could be implemented, something like the Blue Board, and when you reach a certain level you should get a warning or even be kicked out;)
However, I'm glad to see that the eagerness with which these abusers use kudoz is counterbalanced by the same eagerness with which good translators give answers even a few seconds after we post the question, sometimes it's true, we're like kids raising hands "I know it! I know it!":))) we can't help it;) ▲ Collapse
| | | | PAS
Local time: 19:02
Polnisch > Englisch
+ ...
MarcPrior wrote:
Is it not possible to answer by pointing the asker to a suitable dictionary or reference work?
Marc
That's stated rather clearly in the Rules and FAQ.
The problem is that sometimes the questions don't lend themselves to an easy check in the dictionary because they are sentence fragments or terms asked by people who are way out of depth. And since such questions are asked over and over again, I assume that this is not a one-off emergency situation where the translator is forced to do something that he does not specialize in.
Besides, the sensible ones always give an explanation or a sensible excuse. The bad ones don't even reply to requests for more context.
In the PL-EN pair we agreed that if someone is expecting a long series of questions, we let the others know in advance on the Polish forum and everything is fine.
P.A.S.
| | | | IanW (X)
Local time: 19:02
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
Having read Pawel last comment, I had another look at the KudoZ rules:
Rule 4.4.
4.4 - Commenting on an asker’s profile, his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden. (Glossary entries can be edited after a question is closed without the involvement of an asker. Point decisions can be undone only by joint request to a moderator from both the asker and the person who was awarded the points.)
Does this mean that if - to take a hypothetical example - a Romanian colleague has taken on a German-English job and is posting every single sentence as a question, it is 'strictly forbidden' to comment upon this? If this is the law, then the law is an ass.
Ian
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 19:02
Deutsch > Englisch
+ ...
PAS wrote:
The problem is that sometimes the questions don't lend themselves to an easy check in the dictionary because they are sentence fragments or terms asked by people who are way out of depth.
The problem appears to be that it is not considered appropriate to tell someone that they are out of their depth. For example, by saying: you need to read up on XYZ - try googling for it. Why is this not a solution?
On the other hand, we all encounter problems at some point which are outside our own fields, but elementary for someone in the field concerned. I don't do legal material, for instance, but might encounter a legal term in a technical text which is not in any of my legal dictionaries (I have several) and which I can't resolve without research on a scale out of all proportion to the immediate problem. In this case, the obvious solution is then to explain the fact - colleagues will understand the situation and then be willing to help.
The question to me is whether this is possible under the present system, and/or without a closed membership, as you mentioned.
Marc
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juvera
Local time: 18:02
Englisch > Ungarisch
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MMUlr wrote:
pidzej wrote:
... but I do think that 283/0 or 809/1 is taking things a bit too far.
You talk about 809/1 - Just the other day, I had a KudoZ-/e-mail correspondence with a Kudoz "taker" showing ***1412/3*** as his ratio! I myself would be too ashamed to post a question while showing this unbalance - or I would work on my answering part very quickly!!!
Regards
M+M Ulrich
I don't want to nitpick, but 1412/3 is a much better ratio than 809/1. In fact, it is basically 471/1. To outdo the latter it would have to be at least 2428/3 
I agree with Fuad, let's wait and see the impact of the new limits on the number of daily questions, and keep this idea in mind for possible application.
Regards
Judith
| | | | writeaway
Französisch > Englisch
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THEMENSTARTER | No need to wait and see what the impact will be | Jul 13, 2005 |
juvera wrote:
I agree with Fuad, let's wait and see the impact of the new limits on the number of daily questions, and keep this idea in mind for possible application.
Regards
Judith
15 questions a day is a disaster now-making it 'officially allowed' isn't going to improve things at all. It's opening the door to increased site abuse. Imho, this limit should be thought through again and not implemented as it's been presented up to now. Paying member or not, 15 questions a day is far too many, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
| | | | Mark Xiang
Local time: 01:02
Englisch > Chinesisch
+ ...
| See how Kudoz is abused. | Jul 14, 2005 |
Someone has asked 4300 questions within 20 months after joining the site! If you count out the holidays and some weekend days, that mean more than 10 Q's were asked EVERY DAY WITHIN NEARLY TWO YEARS!
Absolutely cheap to make full use of Kudoz, isn't it?
If you do not want to pay for the translation, just follow suit.^_^
Mark
| | | | Mark Xiang
Local time: 01:02
Englisch > Chinesisch
+ ...
| In that case, do not make any change! | Jul 14, 2005 |
writeaway wrote:
15 questions a day is a disaster now-making it 'officially allowed' isn't going to improve things at all. It's opening the door to increased site abuse. Imho, this limit should be thought through again and not implemented as it's been presented up to now. Paying member or not, 15 questions a day is far too many, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
If you have more than 10 Q's everyday, why do you choose to be a translator?
But if one uses this system to get free service or as study forum, and if Proz.com accommodate that demand, it is another issue.
Mark
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Nikki Graham
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 18:02
Spanisch > Englisch
| Kudoz quality level is no laughing matter | Jul 14, 2005 |
writeaway wrote:
15 questions a day is a disaster now-making it 'officially allowed' isn't going to improve things at all. It's opening the door to increased site abuse. Imho, this limit should be thought through again and not implemented as it's been presented up to now. Paying member or not, 15 questions a day is far too many, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
I agree totally with writeaway here. I think the 15 question limit will bring problems rather than solve them. Just a quick daily look at my pair reveals a number of people (mainly non-native speakers of English) asking lots of (really rather basic)questions -and yes, for the "laissez-faire" among us- I don't answer them. But I'm getting rather tired of seeing this happen, and I know I'm not the only one. What could the consequences of this be? We stop taking part in Kudoz altogether, then perhaps we'll stop taking part in the forums too, then we'll wonder why we pay a fee to use a product that no longer meets our requirements, so we won't bother. And perhaps one day, those who are still paying to ask 15 questions will realise that all the good people have gone away (some of them went ages ago...) and stop paying too.
Signed by someone who thinks that Kudoz is one of the best tools ever invented for translators, but now rarely uses it as the quality level has slipped beyond a joke.
Oh, and P.S. I think the vote for abuse button is a very good idea now that we are not allowed to make any comments
| | | | Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Französisch > Englisch
+ ...
| I second Nikki's comments..well said | Jul 16, 2005 |
Nikki Graham wrote:
writeaway wrote:
15 questions a day is a disaster now-making it 'officially allowed' isn't going to improve things at all. It's opening the door to increased site abuse. Imho, this limit should be thought through again and not implemented as it's been presented up to now. Paying member or not, 15 questions a day is far too many, unless there are exceptional circumstances.
I agree totally with writeaway here. I think the 15 question limit will bring problems rather than solve them. Just a quick daily look at my pair reveals a number of people (mainly non-native speakers of English) asking lots of (really rather basic)questions -and yes, for the "laissez-faire" among us- I don't answer them. But I'm getting rather tired of seeing this happen, and I know I'm not the only one. What could the consequences of this be? We stop taking part in Kudoz altogether, then perhaps we'll stop taking part in the forums too, then we'll wonder why we pay a fee to use a product that no longer meets our requirements, so we won't bother. And perhaps one day, those who are still paying to ask 15 questions will realise that all the good people have gone away (some of them went ages ago...) and stop paying too.
Signed by someone who thinks that Kudoz is one of the best tools ever invented for translators, but now rarely uses it as the quality level has slipped beyond a joke.
Oh, and P.S. I think the vote for abuse button is a very good idea now that we are not allowed to make any comments
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spanien
Local time: 19:02
Spanisch > Englisch
+ ...
| 100% agreement | Jul 17, 2005 |
Nikki Graham wrote:
Signed by someone who thinks that Kudoz is one of the best tools ever invented for translators, but now rarely uses it as the quality level has slipped beyond a joke.
I agree wholly:-)
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