About the constant AI training job posts.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:

And then, we have these constant posts for AI training jobs here on ProZ, of all places, a place that is supposed to promote our industry. My point is that AI training jobs are not translation jobs, and they are a threat to us, translators who are paying members of this very platform where those jobs are being posted. I get those literally almost every day, and it's starting to piss me off, frankly. By the way, AI training is not translation, and it's not even a profession, and this is not Fiverr, Upwork or whatever. This is ProZ.

Eugenio Garcia-Salmones wrote:
Indeed, training machines is not translation but collaboration with the most vile capitalism, that which offers us rates of 00.1$. I don't know if people are idiots or if they don't realise that they themselves that are taking the ground from under their feet, but I well know that some people are not idiots, but servile, miserable and low spirits.

Eugenio Garcia-Salmones wrote:



Indeed, training machines is not translation but collaboration with the most vile capitalism, that which offers us rates of 00.1$. I don't know if people are idiots or if they don't realise that they themselves that are taking the ground from under their feet, but I well know that some people are not idiots, but servile, miserable and low spirits.

Lingua 5B wrote:

Nice idea for them to fill out a form, but they will lie in the form just to get a ton of responses and fill out their database.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:



Sweatshop posts are usually open about how little they want to pay, simply because exploitation is allowed. They don't have an incentive to lie about it.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:

I know how this topic can piss us off. I feel that way too, I don't like how some people will accept just any condition and drag our market down with them. I also don't like how companies will just shamelessly "offer" jobs at humiliating rates as if it was normal. Exploitation, as common as it may be, is NOT normal. It is scandalous. By the way, their clients also do the same thing with them, so they are often just perpetuating the exploitation chain, not starting it. And the people who accept those conditions either are bad at freelancing or are just desperate.

The point is we have a systematic problem, it needs to be solved systematically. Shaming people won't do anything. I also even sympathize with people who are actual translators and now are running out of work and have to take jobs like AI training, or just some really poorly paid jobs.

Ideally, I would want AI training out of this site completely, but we may need a less heavy-handed approach. Since dumping rates and exploitation are sadly a reality in our market (and in everything else), and people want to engaging in those practices, there should at least be a way to separate them from people who work under better principles.

Firstly, there should be better filters for the job notifications, so that we could just untick AI training jobs and never receive them. For that to work, I think job posters should only be allowed to post by filling out the job post form, not by just entering everything into text. I think it's time to remove plain-text posts from this site. That should also help us get better filtered notifications according to our lowest acceptable rates, which currently barely works, because of how many jobs are posted in plain text and can't be filtered out.

My second idea is if we came up with some concrete metrics that determined when a job post is considered fair, and job posts that meet those criteria got a special badge (and that badge could be used as a filter too). Call it a Fair Market badge. Coming up with those metrics might be tricky, but they should be thought up as a bare minimum to even be considered fair. Rates should be just one of them, but there should be others too. AI training should not get the Fair Market badge, post-editing (post-editing is not always that bad, but it is automation, so, you get the idea), and other things should be excluded too.

That way, we could see and be seen by like-minded people and companies in our platform, as it was supposed to be.

Some of you may be thinking why the badge too, if the filters alone would filter out everything that each of us don't like in a customizable way. Because adhering to principles is more prestigious than exploiting people, so if exploiting people is allowed, people who don't exploit get a shiny badge. Like I said, exploitation is not normal.

Let me know your thoughts!

And, thank you, Monica, for jumping into this conversation with us.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:

I know how this topic can piss us off. I feel that way too, I don't like how some people will accept just any condition and drag our market down with them. I also don't like how companies will just shamelessly "offer" jobs at humiliating rates as if it was normal. Exploitation, as common as it may be, is NOT normal. It is scandalous. By the way, their clients also do the same thing with them, so they are often just perpetuating the exploitation chain, not starting it. And the people who accept those conditions either are bad at freelancing or are just desperate.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:

Firstly, there should be better filters for the job notifications, so that we could just untick AI training jobs and never receive them. For that to work, I think job posters should only be allowed to post by filling out the job post form, not by just entering everything into text. I think it's time to remove plain-text posts from this site. That should also help us get better filtered notifications according to our lowest acceptable rates, which currently barely works, because of how many jobs are posted in plain text and can't be filtered out.

Javi Tazinafo wrote:

My second idea is if we came up with some concrete metrics that determined when a job post is considered fair, and job posts that meet those criteria got a special badge (and that badge could be used as a filter too). Call it a Fair Market badge. Coming up with those metrics might be tricky, but they should be thought up as a bare minimum to even be considered fair. Rates should be just one of them, but there should be others too. AI training should not get the Fair Market badge, post-editing (post-editing is not always that bad, but it is automation, so, you get the idea), and other things should be excluded too.

That way, we could see and be seen by like-minded people and companies in our platform, as it was supposed to be.

Some of you may be thinking why the badge too, if the filters alone would filter out everything that each of us don't like in a customizable way. Because adhering to principles is more prestigious than exploiting people, so if exploiting people is allowed, people who don't exploit get a shiny badge. Like I said, exploitation is not normal.

Lingua 5B wrote:

Nice idea for them to fill out a form, but they will lie in the form just to get a ton of responses and fill out their database.

Monica Oliveira wrote:



Thank you!

It is a misconception that some companies just want to "fill out their database." How good is a database filled with people who will not respond to their emails or don't want to work with them. Also, why to spend time and money to recruit and fill a database without a purpose? You can be sure that if a company is asking you to complete forms and go through a qualification process they have a purpose and see the need in their business pipeline.

Here is a very common scenario in the localization industry:

Companies that are ISO certified or have clients that are ISO certified cannot assign a project to someone that has not gone through a process that meet ISO standards. They would either loose their certification or the client. Thus, these companies, when they expect or plan for growth in their business, they will recruit proactively to be able to have vetted professionals ready to take on projects. They cannot tell the professionals they are recruiting when or even if a project will actually happen and what the jobs look like because they don't know precisely yet, just have an idea what it would be. Sometimes they won't win the business, but if they do win the business they need to be prepared.

From the professional point of view, being in the database of companies like these is few steps closer to good jobs and likely to a life-long client. Service providers need to invest in leads, sometimes they convert into real business and some don't.