| Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] | About the constant AI training job posts. Initiator des Themas: Javi Tazinafo
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Javi Tazinafo 
Brasilien
Local time: 06:20
Mitglied (2010)
Englisch > Portugiesisch
THEMENSTARTER | Developing our ideas | Oct 24, 2024 |
I agree we can't stop change, and that we shouldn't ignore AI. It can help us if we're using it as suggestions like we use MT now. We just have to keep protect ourselves from abuse while we do it.
I'll leave the points you raised on MTPE and pricing for some other time. For now, I'll address only the potential features.
1) That is a much needed feature. We're on the right track, but let me ask you about those text-only job posts. Do you agree that they make any kind of ... See more I agree we can't stop change, and that we shouldn't ignore AI. It can help us if we're using it as suggestions like we use MT now. We just have to keep protect ourselves from abuse while we do it.
I'll leave the points you raised on MTPE and pricing for some other time. For now, I'll address only the potential features.
1) That is a much needed feature. We're on the right track, but let me ask you about those text-only job posts. Do you agree that they make any kind of filtering, including the fair market badge, bypassable? I can only think of one solution, which would be to remove text-only posts, and making the full-on form mandatory. What do you think about that assessment, and do you have any other ideas?
2) I didn't know about that feature. So you have the framework for using the "community rate" as a means for filtering and ultimately distinguishing posts that honor it. It could be used as the prerequisite for the fair market badge. Yes, I can see how outdated rates could ruin it. What if you couldn't leave the rates empty in your profile. I mean, if you could only enter your rates (and those will be factored into the community rate), or you could opt into the community rate. One potential issue with this is that it could make the "community rate" too low, because we would probably have too many people entering super low rates, and that would in turn be used as the means to distinguish still low-paying posts with a fair market badge, which would be a colossal failure of the feature. I think the more distant from the current community rate you enter, the less weight it should have when factoring it into the new community rate. If my logic is sound, that would prevent both outliers with rates too high and people charging dumping rates from influencing the community rate too much. As for outdated rates, what if the user had to confirm their rates again every 6 months, otherwise they inherit the community rate?
And I really like Jana's idea about letting people see the reason why you're rejecting a post. How feasible is it? I would like to see this working for sure. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Javi Tazinafo
Brasilien
Local time: 06:20
Mitglied (2010)
Englisch > Portugiesisch
THEMENSTARTER
Monica Oliveira wrote:
I took your ideas to the team, here is an update
1) Make AI related jobs more distinct: This is on the making in the context of the job post form update. There are other services that some language professionals are interested, like subtitling, voice over, that others are not. So we need to address this too.
2) The fair market badge: I took the idea to the team, they scratched their heads and we started a discussion about how to realize that; it seems to be complex, but nobody rejected it, so we will continue to discuss it. Keep the ideas coming.
They reminded me about a feature that ProZ.com has that you might not be aware of because you don't search for translators  . When clients enter a budget during their search, they are notified if the rate is below community rate. If they keep it, they will get fewer results. See the orange block in the screenshot.
The catch is, if the rates translators entered are outdated or inflated, or the translators don't enter any, this feature doesn't work as well. We would have to carry a campaign to get people to enter/update their rate (can make it invisible to the public) and create a rate category for AI training, for instance, per task category.
Something to think about: if we have an up-to-date "community rate," we could use this feature and not show the AI posts or any job type with low rate offer to professionals who choose to honor the community rate specific of each task type, and not accept lower rates.
Hi Monica
Has there been any development on this since?
| | | | | AI threats in translation field | Apr 16 |
The increasing presence of AI training tasks on ProZ is a concerning trend that warrants critical discussion. While technological advancements are inevitable, the platform must consider whether such jobs align with its core mission of supporting professional linguists.
Many of these AI training jobs contribute to systems designed to automate or reduce the need for human translators. By facilitating such work, ProZ may inadvertently undermine its own community. Professionals who rel... See more The increasing presence of AI training tasks on ProZ is a concerning trend that warrants critical discussion. While technological advancements are inevitable, the platform must consider whether such jobs align with its core mission of supporting professional linguists.
Many of these AI training jobs contribute to systems designed to automate or reduce the need for human translators. By facilitating such work, ProZ may inadvertently undermine its own community. Professionals who rely on the platform for sustainable income could face long-term risks as AI tools evolve, potentially displacing human expertise to some extent. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 11:20
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
Muhammad Salehi Nejati wrote:
Professionals who rely on the platform for sustainable income
That's the problem, isn't it? So many translators seem to be stuck here, almost paralyzed by the prospect of having to find work outside of Proz. Like Proz is inevitable and a necessity. Well, it isn't.
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ibz
Local time: 11:20
Englisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| Forget Proz as a means to get good jobs | Apr 16 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Muhammad Salehi Nejati wrote:
Professionals who rely on the platform for sustainable income
That's the problem, isn't it? So many translators seem to be stuck here, almost paralyzed by the prospect of having to find work outside of Proz. Like Proz is inevitable and a necessity. Well, it isn't.
No, ProZ is not a necessity and (at least in my case) it never was. I can only repeat myself: Don't rely on this or any other platform and try finding your clients elsewhere, preferably in your own country/region. Capitalize on your contacts, use whatever special knowledge you have.
ProZ is a lost case, IMHO. Moderators no longer engage in discussions (are they even still there?) and all I get is ads for AI - just today an invitation to buy access to the AI expo 2025 ($79, great deal!).
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgien
Local time: 11:20
Mitglied (2020)
Französisch > Niederländisch
+ ...
ibz wrote:
and all I get is ads for AI
Indeed. Which makes me wonder. What happened to Pastey? It's all LinguaCore I get to see now, while at a certain point in time Pastey was all over the place.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnien und Herzegowina
Local time: 11:20
Mitglied (2009)
Englisch > Kroatisch
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote:
ibz wrote:
and all I get is ads for AI
Indeed. Which makes me wonder. What happened to Pastey? It's all LinguaCore I get to see now, while at a certain point in time Pastey was all over the place.
Pastey project might have failed as nobody was buying it, despite extremely aggressive marketing (must be a great product if it fails with such a marketing). On my end, I can see LinguaCore as GoogleAd, so it's a paid ad that ProZ profits from by displaying it on their site as a banner. There are different arrangements with Google you can enter, such as that you get money for displaying ads, regardless of sales (at least until a certain point).
A bunch of translators lost jobs due to AI, and now have to spend their money buying AI tools to work for peanuts.
| | | | | Keeping the conversation going: more and better job opportunities | Apr 16 |
Hello everyone,
Monica has moved on from her role at ProZ.com, and I'll be stepping in here to continue the positive and productive conversation in this thread. I hope that's okay with everyone. I'll also do my best to keep this post brief and focused to maintain the productive tone. Thank you, Javi Tazinafo, and others, for your efforts in keeping the topic alive.
After reading every post here, I believe a few points need clarification if we want this conversation to l... See more Hello everyone,
Monica has moved on from her role at ProZ.com, and I'll be stepping in here to continue the positive and productive conversation in this thread. I hope that's okay with everyone. I'll also do my best to keep this post brief and focused to maintain the productive tone. Thank you, Javi Tazinafo, and others, for your efforts in keeping the topic alive.
After reading every post here, I believe a few points need clarification if we want this conversation to lead somewhere useful for everyone.
Several posts refer to "jobs relevant to translation" or "jobs for translators," which suggests that the scope of ProZ.com may not be entirely clear. ProZ.com is a platform (not a union, as someone correctly pointed out) where the jobs posted —as well as offers sent directly via the directory— are for jobs of interest to language professionals. This is stated in job posting rule #1 and in several other parts of the site, such as the FAQs.
So, the answer to a question such as can you explain why such jobs that are not relevant to translation are allowed on this platform for professional translators? is because the AI training jobs allowed on ProZ.com (those requiring a certain level of linguistic competence and expertise) are considered of interest to language professionals. This is the criterion staff use when approving or removing jobs (and yes, we have removed jobs that didn't meet this standard).
That said, we understand that for those not interested in these jobs, seeing them or receiving offers can be a real headache. That's why "AI training" was recently added as a specific service in the job posting form, so that offers are sent only to users who have listed that service on their profile and have opted to be notified or related offers. It was also added to the directory so searches can be better targeted and those not interested in these projects are not contacted.
It is hoped that the addition of this service will help reduce the amount of AI-related noise for those who want nothing to do with it. Still, until the new option is fully adopted by clients, some AI training jobs may continue to be posted as "checking/editing" or "MT post-editing" jobs. These will be corrected by site staff, and follow-up will be made with the posters to ensure the new option is known and used properly.
There are currently no plans to implement a fair market badge or similar, but that doesn't mean jobs won't be differentiated in some way on the new platform. Since this new platform is still under development, several approaches are possible. For now, I suggest we focus on what ProZ.com can do to help you get more of the jobs you do want, rather than labeling the ones you don't.
To that end, we are running a member survey available from the homepage. Your responses, along with other data we are collecting, will help shape our next steps to bring more and better opportunities to the platform. I'd greatly appreciate it if you take the survey if you haven't yet. And if you have other ideas that could directly support the team's efforts to bring more jobs to the site, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to email me at lucia@proz.com, we can also set up a call if you'd like.
Wishing you all a great rest of the week,
Lucia ▲ Collapse
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Daryo
Vereinigtes Königreich
Local time: 10:20
Serbisch > Englisch
+ ...
If the jobs section is to expand outside of translating (I mean translating by translators) wouldn't it make more sense to allow posting of all and any jobs where being bilingual is either required or a huge bonus?
A separate category of 'other jobs (for bilinguals)' would more contribute to the site's relevance for translators than 'offers' helping saw quicker the branch translators are sitting on?
Only a draft idea.
| | | | | I find these jobs almost humiliating | Apr 20 |
I find these jobs to be almost humiliating. For ethical reasons I decide not to take part in these projects, but I would understand other students or professional with a bit of spare time deciding to participate. At the same time, rates are extremely low and it is also embarassing for a person who studied and worked for years as a translator to become the tool correcting the machine, instead of employing such tools to hone their translation skills. I do not know how to express how frustrated I f... See more I find these jobs to be almost humiliating. For ethical reasons I decide not to take part in these projects, but I would understand other students or professional with a bit of spare time deciding to participate. At the same time, rates are extremely low and it is also embarassing for a person who studied and worked for years as a translator to become the tool correcting the machine, instead of employing such tools to hone their translation skills. I do not know how to express how frustrated I feel, as I see these job proposals. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Javi Tazinafo
Brasilien
Local time: 06:20
Mitglied (2010)
Englisch > Portugiesisch
THEMENSTARTER | A hands-off approach won't cut it anymore. It's as simple as that. | Apr 21 |
Lucia Leszinsky wrote:
Hello everyone,
Monica has moved on from her role at ProZ.com, and I'll be stepping in here to continue the positive and productive conversation in this thread. I hope that's okay with everyone. I'll also do my best to keep this post brief and focused to maintain the productive tone. Thank you, Javi Tazinafo, and others, for your efforts in keeping the topic alive.
After reading every post here, I believe a few points need clarification if we want this conversation to lead somewhere useful for everyone.
Several posts refer to "jobs relevant to translation" or "jobs for translators," which suggests that the scope of ProZ.com may not be entirely clear. ProZ.com is a platform (not a union, as someone correctly pointed out) where the jobs posted —as well as offers sent directly via the directory— are for jobs of interest to language professionals. This is stated in job posting rule #1 and in several other parts of the site, such as the FAQs.
So, the answer to a question such as can you explain why such jobs that are not relevant to translation are allowed on this platform for professional translators? is because the AI training jobs allowed on ProZ.com (those requiring a certain level of linguistic competence and expertise) are considered of interest to language professionals. This is the criterion staff use when approving or removing jobs (and yes, we have removed jobs that didn't meet this standard).
That said, we understand that for those not interested in these jobs, seeing them or receiving offers can be a real headache. That's why "AI training" was recently added as a specific service in the job posting form, so that offers are sent only to users who have listed that service on their profile and have opted to be notified or related offers. It was also added to the directory so searches can be better targeted and those not interested in these projects are not contacted.
It is hoped that the addition of this service will help reduce the amount of AI-related noise for those who want nothing to do with it. Still, until the new option is fully adopted by clients, some AI training jobs may continue to be posted as "checking/editing" or "MT post-editing" jobs. These will be corrected by site staff, and follow-up will be made with the posters to ensure the new option is known and used properly.
There are currently no plans to implement a fair market badge or similar, but that doesn't mean jobs won't be differentiated in some way on the new platform. Since this new platform is still under development, several approaches are possible. For now, I suggest we focus on what ProZ.com can do to help you get more of the jobs you do want, rather than labeling the ones you don't.
To that end, we are running a member survey available from the homepage. Your responses, along with other data we are collecting, will help shape our next steps to bring more and better opportunities to the platform. I'd greatly appreciate it if you take the survey if you haven't yet. And if you have other ideas that could directly support the team's efforts to bring more jobs to the site, I'd love to hear them. Feel free to email me at lucia@proz.com, we can also set up a call if you'd like.
Wishing you all a great rest of the week,
Lucia
Hello Lucia
Thank you for jumping in. To the point about ProZ helping us land jobs we do want, I wanted to say that the fair market badge would do that by incentivizing companies to offer better payment, so that they learn that they get better translators if they pay well, and we find more jobs that actually interest us.
What we see right now is a flood of exploitative posts and way too few serious offers. This is what you get when the platform takes a hands-off approach - you alienate the translators who are paying customers, because the market will always rip us off as much as they can get away with. It's just the nature of unchecked business. And if you see that happening on your platform and do nothing... that's a statement.
So here is my clear-cut question: what can ProZ do to drive more well-paid job posts?
A hands-off approach won't cut it anymore. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry to pressure you, but this is as friendly as pressure goes. Please show us that being reasonable works.
Thanks!
| | | | ibz
Local time: 11:20
Englisch > Deutsch
+ ...
| No satisfying answer | Apr 24 |
Javi Tazinafo wrote:
Hello Lucia
Thank you for jumping in. To the point about ProZ helping us land jobs we do want, I wanted to say that the fair market badge would do that by incentivizing companies to offer better payment, so that they learn that they get better translators if they pay well, and we find more jobs that actually interest us.
What we see right now is a flood of exploitative posts and way too few serious offers. This is what you get when the platform takes a hands-off approach - you alienate the translators who are paying customers, because the market will always rip us off as much as they can get away with. It's just the nature of unchecked business. And if you see that happening on your platform and do nothing... that's a statement.
So here is my clear-cut question: what can ProZ do to drive more well-paid job posts?
A hands-off approach won't cut it anymore. It's as simple as that. I'm sorry to pressure you, but this is as friendly as pressure goes. Please show us that being reasonable works.
Thanks!
I seriously doubt that you will get a satisfying answer, Javi, which is too bad as you invested a lot of energy and developped your ideas to improve the job system. But either ProZ doesn't want to or can't change its current system - take your pick.
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| ProZ subscription way too high | Apr 24 |
With the low-paying jobs that this derelict platform encourages, I am not sure 120 USD/year is a fair price to ask.
Practice what you preach, ProZ, and cut your price by half. Perhaps that would be a better match for the poor value you have been offering lately.
| | | | | Open conversation: more and better jobs, improved support | Apr 24 |
Thanks for your thoughtful message, Javi, and for the friendly pressure, which I take in the spirit it was offered.
I wanted to share a few thoughts. First, about the fair market badge: it's a good idea and one we have discussed internally, but for now, it is not something ProZ is in a position to implement, at least not on the current site. It may become feasible on the new platform, which is being built with more flexibility for initiatives like this. In the meantime, one concrete... See more Thanks for your thoughtful message, Javi, and for the friendly pressure, which I take in the spirit it was offered.
I wanted to share a few thoughts. First, about the fair market badge: it's a good idea and one we have discussed internally, but for now, it is not something ProZ is in a position to implement, at least not on the current site. It may become feasible on the new platform, which is being built with more flexibility for initiatives like this. In the meantime, one concrete step we can take is helping clients understand what fair rates may actually look like. We already have valuable data (the community rates tool previously discussed), it is just a matter of displaying it more prominently where clients will see it before posting jobs or sending messages through the directory. While this may not prevent low offers, it could guide better behavior simply by setting clearer expectations.
You mentioned that doing nothing is a statement, and I want to be very clear: ProZ is not doing nothing. While it might sometimes seem that way from the outside, especially if a specific proposal from the forums is not implemented, that does not mean work is not happening. Most of site members do not participate in the forums, but site staff work daily to support all of them, professional linguists from very diverse backgrounds, markets, and service areas. Not everything we do is visible, and we are aware we haven’t always been the best at communicating that. But that doesn’t mean things aren’t happening.
About your central question: what can ProZ do to drive more well-paid job posts?, there is no one-size-fits-all answer, especially in a changing market. It is true that AI and other factors have impacted rates in some areas, but it is also true that many professionals are adapting by diversifying services, developing niche expertise, or working with clients who value quality and are willing to pay for it. Many of those jobs are being posted and filled on ProZ.com every day and, despite the challenges in the market, including those brought on by AI, many language professionals are still finding good opportunities on the platform. Just from the recent member survey:
- More than 82% have received work through ProZ.com.
- Over 58% completed more than five projects in March alone.
- Nearly half said they were satisfied with the quality of the clients they meet on the site.
- And almost 50% reported receiving direct client offers through their profiles that led to successful collaboration.
Behind these numbers, there is ongoing work. ProZ has a team that communicates directly with clients who recruit daily, offering guidance on how to find top talent, understand industry rates, and use profile information effectively. Staff members are attending industry and non-industry events, both to show how to recruit successfully through the site and to learn what clients are looking for, so we can help freelancers stay aligned and prepared. We have introduced a payment solution to address non-payment risks and enable everyone in the industry to get paid their way, the empowerment team is constantly expanding training opportunities, and the new site is now supporting peer-led communities where language professionals can organize and support one another in the push for better jobs and better pay, among many other initiatives.
Again, I know the site team needs to improve how we communicate this work. But I hope it is clear that staff is not separate from the community. Staff are part of it, and we care deeply about making this platform work for the people who rely on it, including ourselves.
Let us keep the conversation going. Your question is key, and very much aligned with my own (and the team's) focus: what can ProZ.com do to drive more well-paid job posts? I hear you when you say, “Please show us that being reasonable works.” That’s fair. I hope this message is a small step in that direction. Site staff are listening and acting, even if not always in the most visible ways.
Happy to continue this conversation.
Lucia ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Vom Thema belegte Seiten: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » About the constant AI training job posts. | CafeTran Espresso |
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